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  • WELCOME TO THE NEW SERVER!

    If you are seeing this you are on our new server WELCOME HOME!

    While the new server is online Scott is still working on the backend including the cachine. But the site is usable while the work is being completes!

    Thank you for your patience and again WELCOME HOME!

    CLICK THE X IN THE TOP RIGHT CORNER OF THE BOX TO DISMISS THIS MESSAGE
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We have done that a few times already this year... I was actually thinking of moving the 3 servers from the ISP to my house. But the commercial internet to my home and no backup power would have almost cost us the same. Plus we tried moving off of non premium bandwidth before and you can remember what a mess that was.

What the OP says about operations costs for the servers is correct, but he not factoring in many of the other costs that we pay monthly which we have been over before. For example last month we renewed our cpanel licenses for a year at a cost of $425 per server.

I am not offering to host your site though I probably could put it on one of my lesser used servers and unless you are getting thousands of connections per second, it probably would not be a big deal. Or, I can put you in touch with a great data center where you can get a very powerful server for around a hundred bucks a month, tons of bandwidth and pretty much NO down time what so ever and if any, very very rare. I've never seen any with the one I would suggest at least.

As mentioned in my first email, you can get a hefty quad processor, 32GB/1TB HARDWARE server (not a vps) for a little over a hundred bucks. You could have a 1000Mb/s connection and 15TB per month. There is not much chance you would use that up with this site. Even if you have a ton of services running on the server, it's mainly memory which you care around, CPU's will hardly be used for the web site and many httpd instances could be waiting for hits without using up much memory. You would still have lots of memory to run MySQL (assuming you are using a LAMP setup) and could turn off any unneeded services of course.

I can't factor in all your costs because only you know them. What I have learned however is that much of the time, the costs are higher because the operator isn't all that interested in doing things right, they just want to do it their own way. In some cases, they simply don't care that much to save money because it's so much fun to brag about costs and complications than to actually simplify it AND saving money. Not saying you are doing this, just saying that much of the time, many costs can be eliminated but it often takes talking the owner down to earth in what they believe they need vs what is actually needed.

I'm not sure why you need three servers to run a web site but I've consolidated tons of very complex setups into simpler solutions that cost much less to run. You could still have a low speed connection at home or elsewhere if you wanted a little redundancy or off-site backup and at worse, if the data center ever went down, you would have a low speed backup which your users would appreciate.

I'm guessing you don't need a mail server so sendmail or php is all that's needed for outgoing mail since incoming is always on the site itself.
I'm not sure why you are spending money on cpanel for in house servers if you're not hosting or something along those lines so again, only you know that but usually, panels are used for remote access on shared resources. If you aren't sharing your resources, there are MUCH cheaper (FREE) alternatives such as webmin and countless other ways of remotely accessing your resources and of course, ssh and tons of other command line tools.

As for your radio show, same thing, you could easily either use the same server or rent another server and simply send your stream to that server from a low speed connection and users would connect to that high speed server instead.

Again, not knowing your setup, I can only guess and assume but I've done lots of this kind of work. I've also had to consolidate my own data centers many times including ending up building them in my own home because it no longer made sense to rent the space when I could get everything I needed at the house. With generator, huge battery arrays, multiple connections in multiple formats along with having multiple providers, I was running over 200 CPUs and huge fibre channel and other types of RAID storage arrays right from my basement. Of course, my power bill was some $800/Month on good months but all of it ended up being much cheaper than renting space and maintaining it.

There are always ways of saving money and running a web site should not cost anywhere near the numbers you are talking about based on what I know at least.

I'm not looking for money and I barely have any time to help you but I've always found good help from this site and would be happy to offer what ever suggestions I could via email perhaps if you are interested and willing to give me the information I need to help you.
 
The hosting world has changed a lot since this site has gone up, it probably could be done for a lot less using leased/rented hardware verses colocation now.
 
Thanks again. I don't think you get that we OWN our servers so I don't want to rent any. In good months we transfer over 15TB of data in a month. As I look now our upstream we are using about 5mb/s up and traffic to the site is low at the moment.

And again the cost are not just the server, bandwidth, its software, licensing, service contracts, maintenance fees, having a tech on retainer, legal fees, accounting fees, apps, add-ins, and so on. The 3 servers are just a small piece of the pie. :D

Now as far as the number of ads go... From September 1st until today here is where we are.

For unregistered / Non Logged in members

Homepage Ads - September 1st - 8 - December 2nd - 4
Ads Shown In Message - September 1st - 10 December 2nd - 3
Main Forums Listings Page - September 1st - 11 - December 2nd - 5
In Forums list - September 1st 13 - December 2nd - 7
(Not including Vibrant Media ads which were ONLY shown to unregistered non logged in members.)

Registered Members -
Homepage - September 1st - 4 - December 2nd - 2
Ads Shown in Message - September 1st - 5 December 2nd - 2
Main Forums Listings Page - September 1st - 6 - December 2nd - 2
In forums List - September 1st 7 - December 2nd - 4

Now when compared to AVSForum

Homepage - 7
Ads shown in messages - 9
Main Forums Listing - 5
In Forums List - 5

Note this does not include the 9 sponsors ads at the bottom of every page. In addition AVS uses Vibrant Media with the green lines and popups.

So overall, I don't think we are showing many ads at all. Of course it would be best if we could show no ads at all, but they are a necessary evil.

Many of the ads were the big box boxes, and they were the highest earners as well. I may go back to those in the future. As the fill rate and earnings on leaderboards and skyscrapers continues to fall.

One other BIG thing to remember is that ads on forums pay less than they do on other websites, in fact most of the internet ad agencies refuse to serve ads to sites that have a forum.

I can honestly say that this year we have not made a profit on SatelliteGuys.

What I would love is if some agency out there could come in here and optimize our ads for maximum earning and minimal user impact. I would be happy to share a percentage of the increased revenue with such an establish company. There are companies that do this but none do work on forums. I am sure there is a goldmine to be made there.

Again thanks for the comments and suggestions, I do appreciate them, but in the bigger picture of things server costs are only a small amount of the costs.
 

>Do you need me to host your site for you? I'm sure I can do it at a very reasonable cost.

Ya, at first, I guess I was being a little facetious and just wanted to make a point.

>I am not offering to host your site though I probably could put it on...

Later on, I started thinking that I might be able to help in some ways at least.
 
>Thanks again. I don't think you get that we OWN our servers so I don't want to rent any.

Of course I get that, I even suggested a possible use for them. I own dozens upon dozens of servers, blade chassis loaded with blades, you name it but I still rent when it's more economical to do it.

>In good months we transfer over 15TB of data in a month. As I look now our upstream we are using about 5mb/s up and traffic to
>the site is low at the moment.

As mentioned, that is simply what comes with the servers, you can easily add double that for very little money. And it's the bandwidth that I was mainly trying to point out, 1000Mbs, you're not going to get that unless you're bringing in some major pipe into your location. That's where I rent instead because it's cheaper to use someones huge capacity because they typically also have serious redundancy.

>And again the cost are not just the server, bandwidth, its software, licensing, service contracts, maintenance fees, having a tech on
>retainer, legal fees, accounting fees, apps, add-ins, and so on. The 3 servers are just a small piece of the pie. :D

This I know also, been there, done that and on large and small scale but some of the things you're mentioning, just to host this site, sound rather over the top. You have a tech on retainer for this site and three servers? Have you ever thought about asking your own membership if someone might be interested in helping, at no cost or for something less than ongoing fees? There are always countless people willing to help at no or little cost when they like or believe in something. You have a whole membership of technical people and I bet more than one would love to help for lots of reasons and for free.

>Of course it would be best if we could show no ads at all, but they are a necessary evil.

I don't believe that for a minute. There are all kinds of ways you could generate money without filling your site with crap. It's your choice but you could even canvas your own membership base for ideas instead of constantly coming up with reasons that nothing can be changed or done about it.

>Again thanks for the comments and suggestions, I do appreciate them, but in the bigger picture of things server costs are only a
>small amount of the costs.

Well, it's what you brought up as being a pretty hefty cost so it was a starting place. Sounds to me like many things could be changed but that you prefer to think it's way too complex a problem to fix.

Good luck :)
 
One other BIG thing to remember is that ads on forums pay less than they do on other websites, in fact most of the internet ad agencies refuse to serve ads to sites that have a forum.

Well that sucks! One wonders why that is, given the number of plausibly understood eyeballs here (and other forums). (By "plausibly understood", I mean that you can probably guess that we're about satellite, TV, and consumer electronics in general.)
 
One wonders why that is
I'd venture to say that people who participate in message forums are a bit more tech-savvy and don't need ads to help them pick or find some item. This site is extremely slated (focused ?) on Dish Network, who also happens to have DVRs that skip ads for us ! Ads are a dying revenue method. Scott has posted the payout values in the past and they're dropping like a rock.
 
And again the cost are not just the server, bandwidth, its software, licensing, service contracts, maintenance fees, having a tech on retainer, legal fees, accounting fees, apps, add-ins, and so on.
I bolded some of those - they may not all apply - but I've seen something happen more than a few times. You ask members if they'd like you to add add-in "x" or feature "z", explain the costs, etc, etc. People respond that they'd love to see it, think it would be a great addition, and so on. You add it and no one uses it :( (that's one of the reasons you give when it comes time for renewal and you say you're not going to renew - other reasons are they impact the server's stability, etc). I say "no one uses it", which is an exaggeration, but this site has "x" active members, so you'd probably want to see 10%, 15%, ??? use it routinely.
 
A lot of it though is background software. About the only software I wasted money on was the TV Show software, I think it was $25. Not that big of a deal. :D
 
Yeah, I mean, I won't throw away $25, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it if I lost it. I thought some, and this could go back more than a few years, cost quite a bit more.
 
Yeah, I mean, I won't throw away $25, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it if I lost it. I thought some, and this could go back more than a few years, cost quite a bit more.

When the web started to make noise and people started it using it more and more, they slowly moved away from the BBSs and got onto the internet using slip/ppp. When that shift happened, I had about $100K dollars into my BBS at that point not counting many ancillary costs. While I could not sell any of that old stuff and kept it running for as long as I could, I slowly transitioned all of my hardware over to slackware Linux (no installers back then) and got my first taste of the dial-up business. From that point on, people started moving away from the BBS and onto the internet.

All of my hardware suddenly became even more powerful (386/486 machines at that time) because web based stuff was tons easier on resources and I could convert servers to dial-up servers.

These days, running web sites is a piece of cake when using the right hardware. Good LAMP setups can handle hundreds to thousands of simultaneous connections and adding servers, load balancing, having redundancy is no longer an art for most needs and as simple as finding a howto on the net especially if you are using Linux.

I agree that there are many other costs but typically, that is if someone is trying to earn a living from their site and they get caught in that loop because it's not ready to support them. They have invested more than they should have and now finding it difficult to cope.

The only reason I even started this post is because I've seen this countless times. I've even been there myself. When someone starts crying that it's expensive and it's this and it's that, it means it's not really a hobby, it's something they are hoping to earn a living from... usually. It also means they leveraged more than they should have and are now feeling the pressure... usually.

So then there is more pressure, pushing the community to get that community to start paying up. It's a vicious circle that often ends up with people moving on to somewhere else. It feels like that is the case and I would hate to see this site go away, it's pretty cool and it's people are pretty cool.
There is only one person on this site who was a bit of a ??? and IceBerg knows who I am talking about :).

There seems to be a healthy user base, why not canvas them and not only find new ideas but perhaps even free or low cost technical help.
 
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Well, I wanted to edit this last post down a little, feeling it might be TMI for no good reason. Guess I kinda got caught up in memories then later on the point I wanted to make. Apologies for spewing too much but I hope that the owner finds a positive way of achieving his goals.
 
On a related note, is there any way I can sign a waiver in which I acknowledge I'm willfully harming the financial viability of this site by using an Adblocker? I get that pop up almost every time I click on a new page or thread on this site, though I'm always logged in and don't delete cookies as much as I probably should.

My main computer is a work computer, and I block everything to protect my clients' data from malware. And yes, I do realize I miss some good info/site functions by doing that.

A few years ago I got a very nasty virus from a pop up ad on a very reputable news outlet's website (I had temporarily turned off the blocker for some reason and forgot to turn it back on). And my computer was infected in spite of the fact I never clicked on the ad and McAfee immediately caught it and quarantined it. So I'm afraid I just can't make any exceptions for anyone.
 
What do you miss ?

Good question. But the pop up in question says I'm possibly blocking other essential functions of this site.
With other sites, there's a chance I'll miss a legitimate promotion from the site itself -- a special coupon offer, contest, or the like. Sometimes I'll turn it off when I know I'm not seeing something like that.
 
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