Scott, we could sure use your help with the latest 921 fiasco....

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jsanders

SatelliteGuys Pro
Original poster
Dec 4, 2003
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This analog OTA guide info kludge they sell us for $6/mo without any sub-channel info, or simulcast accuracy is the last straw for a series of snafus with the 921.

When Dish did announced the move to MPEG-4, you somehow got them to respond to you. How did you do that? Is it possible we could get their attention again? I think this is the worst jab they have done to 921 users yet.

I know a lot of us have written letters to E*, myself, included. Is there anything we can do to find out who is accountable for this mess, and what the future plans are? The current software is NOT a solution, they need to know that... If they think this is a solution, then they need to know that there will be consequences.
 
Here is what I wrote to them (<ceo@echostar.com>,:

I've had a 921 HD PVR receiver since last January.

This has been a very painful, frustrating year with this semi-complete receiver!

I don't need to explain all of the issues the 921 user has had to face, I'm sure you are painfully aware of them yourself.

The last straw came this morning with the announcement that if a 921 user wants to use the newly released over the air guide data capability, they must subscribe to standard definition, highly compressed, local channels.

Why would anyone want to subscribe to highly compressed, standard definition, satellite local channels if they get these same channels in high definition from the over the air antenna, free of charge?

This is fraudulent, here is why I think that.

1. The 811 receiver does a much better job at supplying digital over the air guide data, and they are not charged for the guide data service.

2. The $5/mo VOD fee that I pay every month is supposed to cover the cost of the guide data. Why should I pay for something twice?

3. Over the air guide data is freely transmitted by terrestrial sources through the PSIP data stream. Why am I being charged for something that comes over the air, into my living room, for free?

4. I don't want satellite, SD locals. Even if you decide the 921 user should be charged (and the 811 user not charged), why not just charge for this OTA guide data? Why should the 921 user have to pay $6.00/mo for guide data and the sd broadcast when all that is needed is the data?

5. DirecTV and Voom offer over the air guide data for free. Do you think you will be able to attract new customers with this business model? Do you think you will keep your existing customer base, or do you think you will loose customers with this action?

If you want to keep me as a paying Dish Network customer, this needs to be resolved. I want to continue with Dish Network, however, I have limits to what I consider a fair deal. Using the 921 this past year has been anything but a fair experience.

I'm asking you to please remedy this situation. Please provide real, digital broadcast over the air guide data, not this analog guide data remapping kludge. Please do not try to force me to buy locals to get this guide data, 811 users don't pay for it and 921 users shouldn't either, that is not fair.

Using the 921 has been a tough pill to swallow. All I want is a fair deal.
 
jsanders, I sent a similar e-mail to charlie, however was not as eliquently worded, asking they do something ASAP about this situation. If Scott has any influence or direct line, his intervention would be greatly appreciated.
 
I have been told that the OTA Guide data we have now was a quick workaround. I understand in a future version it will pull the data like the 811 does.

How long that takes is anyones guess.

The new software is SO GOOD, yet Dish had to ruin the good feeling by once again taking shortcuts and casing their customers to feel ill will to the company. I say it was ANOTHER boneheaded move by the folks at Dish Network.
 
Scott Greczkowski said:
The new software is SO GOOD, yet Dish had to ruin the good feeling by once again taking shortcuts and casing their customers to feel ill will to the company. I say it was ANOTHER boneheaded move by the folks at Dish Network.
Click to expand...

Does Charlie have any toe's left? I've got to wonder since he keep shooting himself in the foot all the time. ;)
 
That is what is confusing me here...

Mark Lamutt got an email from the project manager at Eldon stating that they were told to do it this way on purpose, no mention of this being a stop gap.

That message could well be in harmony with what you said, depending on how you look at it, but it could also be in conflict.

If they would make some official announcement saying we told Eldon to do the band-aid solution on purpose (knowing it will cost users), and we will do the right thing shortly, that would be great.

Scott, from your perspective, do you see these two stories to be in harmony or in conflict?
 
I see a lot of finger pointing coming up and the easiest folks to blame are the folks at Eldon. And unfortunately thats what is starting to happen.

The real problem is with the Dish Network Engineering Department and Dish Network managment.
 
I'd bitch about it too, but I havent received the damn update yet! :no
 
The update itself is good except for the part to get Over The Air guide data you need to subscribe to your locals, which kind of blows since why should you have to pay for them when you get them for FREE off your antenna (hense OVER THE AIR!)
 
Scott,
I do not own a 811 (had a 6000) and now have the 921. My problem is that I watch my OTA from a neighboring DMA. I understand that the 811 shows guide data from adjacent DMAs. Is this true? It would be great if the answer is yes and that the 921 will (eventually) get this feature.
 
I get the Springfield Mo. locals and they are downmapped to their local SD numbers now.I also get KY3 and KOZK 21 (digital/hd) mixed in with them now. Mark, did you go in your preference menu and select to have them down mapped?
 
xsailor said:
Scott,
I do not own a 811 (had a 6000) and now have the 921. My problem is that I watch my OTA from a neighboring DMA. I understand that the 811 shows guide data from adjacent DMAs. Is this true? It would be great if the answer is yes and that the 921 will (eventually) get this feature.
Click to expand...


The 811 does it right. It is DMA independent. If you can receive it from your antenna input, you will get a guide for it as long as they have that information uplinked.

Whether the 921 will have it is the $64,000 question. That is what I want to know!
 
MRUSS

OK, so unless I am totally mental....

I went to MENU - 4 - 1

and checked off all the local channels in each list and then selected [Done]

See link in my previous post for screenshot.... or:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/attachment.php?attachmentid=2751

I don't see any other place to enable downmapping.

What am I missing? My 921 has been reset and rebooted numerous times.

No channel 3,10, 17, 21, 27, 31,33 in ANY of my guides. Just 7220's.

See screenshot: http://www.satelliteguys.us/attachment.php?attachmentid=2750

My guide data is still duped too for both my digital OTA's.(In blue) I can't get channel 21 OTA(HD) It doesnt show up in the scan.

I am ready to call customer stupport. :(
 
Mark if you will go to the preferences screen and hit more ,it will take you to the second screen and you will see ; Off Air Antenna locals . Take it off of enable and you will see your satellite locals go to their lower mapped channels numbers. This is the way to get lower mapped channels . You will lose any analog ota channels you had though. It is either your ota analog sd locals or the satellite locals in their lower mapped channel numbers, not both.

What part of Arkansas are you from? I was born in North Little Rock and lived there until I was 6, and most of my family is still up there and in Mena. :)
 
OK, how do I fix this great software bug?
I rebooted the 921 and went to menu 6-8 and downloaded the digital OTA channels. I got a ton of them, many that I don't want. BUT for example, I have a 10-1 and a 10-2 and a 7-1 and a 7-2. Then 10-1 is the regular ABC station and the 10-2 is a different local ABC News only channel. The problem is not all the channels listed on the download screen are duplicated on the menu. The 10-2 and 7-2 for example are listed but NOT the 10-1 and 7-1 that I really need. They are on the download list but NOT on the menu. How do I get them?

Many thanks- Terry
 
MikeD-C05 said:
Mark if you will go to the preferences screen and hit more ,it will take you to the second screen and you will see ; Off Air Antenna locals . Take it off of enable and you will see your satellite locals go to their lower mapped channels numbers. What part of Arkansas are you from? I was born in North Little Rock and lived there until I was 6, and most of my family is still up there and in Mena. :)
Click to expand...
Well all I can say is DUH. That was the only thing I didn't uncheck. :eek:

Now they show up. My DTV OTA's are still hosed though. UPN15 and Ky3 still show exactly same guide data. Today neither channel will show up. Just blank screen again.

I live near Harrison. Been here 4 yrs now.
 
They used to list the national network channel EPG data to everyone then decided to take that data off the EPG a good while back. Perhaps they should list the data in the EPG again in a certain area without listing the station call letters (at least in the high four digit numbers).
 
Well, they added the downmapping, but can't even get something that simple to work correctly. I've got 4 downmapped channels - from the wrong DMA.
 

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