set up directions

[olddog]

I have dish 500--2 lnbfs,plastic [y] with 91 & 82 degrees on it,and 301 rec.1-
s21 switch[dishnetwork]
Each lnbf has 2 coax cable connections on them .Which one of the connecters do i connect to on the lnbfs.
Do i use both lnbf if only have 1 rec.
Should the switch be connected inside\outside house
When locating sat on set up do i remove card or leave in rec.
What is 119,110
On the s21 swith it says to dish 1 to dish 2 [is this reffering to the 2 lnbf on dish.[only have 1 dish ]

olddog

 

[SimpleSimon]

Good question sets - I numbered them. Thank you for thinking it out in advance.

I have dish 500--2 lnbfs,plastic [y] with 91 & 82 degrees on it,and 301 rec.1-
s21 switch[dishnetwork]

1. Each lnbf has 2 coax cable connections on them. Which one of the connecters do i connect to on the lnbfs?
2. Do i use both lnbf if only have 1 rec.?
3. Should the switch be connected inside\outside house?
4. When locating sat on set up do i remove card or leave in rec.?
5. What is 119,110?
6. On the s21 swith it says to dish 1 to dish 2 [is this reffering to the 2 lnbf on dish.[only have 1 dish ]

olddog

I've never seen a Dish 500 for 91/82. Hopefully, the offset is close enough to be used for 110/119. If not, you'll have to get a new Y-arm (about $15).
Here's the corresponding answers:

1. It doesn't matter. Just for consistency, use the left ones.
2. Yes
3. Doesn't really matter - but it can be used as your ground block, so outside is good.
4. Leave the card in the receiver.
5. The 2 primary E* satellites.
6. Yes, in your case, it means the 2 LNBFs.

Here's a diagram showing you why there's 2 outputs on each LNBF. For a second receiver, all you'd need is a second SW21. http://www.dishnetwork.com/downloads/pdf/technology/installation/install-1.pdf

Just for public reference, here's the 'home page' for Dish Legacy install diagrams

 

[SimpleSimon]

Just looked it up here.

Birds 82/91 are ExpressVu, which I believe is the Canadian version of Dish.
The transponder frequencies/polarities are the same, so it should work just fine - with the possible exception of the Y-arm spacing. I'm interested in finding out if that works out.

 

[olddog]

Having trouble locating dish net sat--can find expressview -- is dishnet east or west of expressview

 

[SimpleSimon]

Your question is telling me that you don't understand the geometry involved with satellite reception. That's OK, let's get you up to speed. Unfortunately, I don't know of any links to the real basics, but you need to know that the satellite numbers like 110 or 82 are the longitude that the bird is 22,300 miles above. The azimuth and elevation to a given bird vary by location. You can't just 'go west', because the elevation also changes. When aiming a dual-bird system (Dish 500), the skew is the setting that compensates for the difference in elevation between the 2 birds.

Here's a look-angle calculator: http://www3.telus.net/rampage/skew.htm
It gives you all the numbers for whatever you want - if you give it the right inputs.
Note that it's output azimuth is 'true', not compass.

 

[olddog]

You are right about my sat finding expertise,Iwent to site you suggested and these are the numbers i came up with.Still was not sure what sat i was suppose to use,so i used dish 500 2 dishes default setting[echo star 7]
This is for peterborough ont canada
226.17 azimuth
27.58 elevation
117.90 skew angle
You mentioned that the azimuth is true not compass--could you explain difference
sorry to bother you again i hope this is the last time

old dog

 

[SimpleSimon]

Don't worry about asking more - you're learning, and that's what it's all about.

True vs. magnetic: The magnetic north pole is NOT in the same place as the rotational north pole. Offhand, if I remember correctly, magnetic north is more or less halfway between you and true north. The correction is known as "declination" and it's varies depending on where you're at. I have no idea what factor it is where you're at, and the clsoer to mag-north you are, the more variable the factor is.

Your receiver should give you a magnetic azimuth by zipcode - but you're in Canada, and I'm gonna guess it's an American receiver, so you're outta luck - unless you're close to the border. Pick the zipcode right across the line.

If you don't have any local resources available (buy the local satellite dude a beer?), check a few 'appropriate' zipcodes and start comparing some numbers and use some "Kentucky windage" to get a reasonable guess going. Once you're close enough to actually get ANY kind of lock, you just start 'knudging' it around to peak the signal.

Start by using ONLY the 119 LNB without the switch. Then go to the 110 LNB and see what's what. Knudge the dish a bit. If you can get a "lot" more on 110, but lose a "lot" of 119, the skew is off. Try and visualize which way you're knudging things as you're trying to get the 2 eyes into the right place.

It will be very time-consuming and frustrating unless you're like me and enjoy "beating" the hardware into submission.

 

[GaryPen]

Just looked it up here.

Birds 82/91 are ExpressVu, which I believe is the Canadian version of Dish.
The transponder frequencies/polarities are the same, so it should work just fine - with the possible exception of the Y-arm spacing. I'm interested in finding out if that works out.

If both systems main sat pairs are 9 degrees apart, shouldn't the ExpressVu and Dish500 dishes work as well on either system?

 

[SimpleSimon]

If both systems main sat pairs are 9 degrees apart, shouldn't the ExpressVu and Dish500 dishes work as well on either system?

I'm expecting that to be true, but think about the geometry of the triangles.
I have NOT done the math - just know that there IS a difference - it just might be that it's insignificant.

It may be that from "most" of the served area, 82/91 appear to be closer together than 110/119 appear to be from their area. If I had to bet money on it, I'd go with "it's OK" - even the Y-arm (LNB spacing) is the same.

No one that's worked with both has come back to say one way or the other.

 

[olddog]

simon
Have 119 sat locked in at 125,I installed s21 switch and tried 110 sat, got wrong sat
ran switch test and it said no sat signal from 110.
I removed switch and connected the 119 cable to reciever directly and am geting lots of channels
I thought that after i had 119 locked in i just had to adjust scew to get 110 sat--did not work
Can i rotate dish to find 110 without loosing 119
Any suggestions

 

[charper1]

This 1st site has a handy declination chart if you still need it.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/antennasatelazposcalc.html

http://www.orbitsat.com/Support/Satpointer.asp

 

[AppliedAggression]

are you in canada?

 

[charper1]

are you in canada?

Who me? Which post? I am not.

 

[SimpleSimon]

simon
Have 119 sat locked in at 125,I installed s21 switch and tried 110 sat, got wrong sat
ran switch test and it said no sat signal from 110.
I removed switch and connected the 119 cable to reciever directly and am geting lots of channels
I thought that after i had 119 locked in i just had to adjust scew to get 110 sat--did not work
Can i rotate dish to find 110 without loosing 119
Any suggestions

I guess I wasn't clear enough. After getting 119 (good job BTW - 125 is spot on!), connect ONLY 110 - NO SWITCH, then rotate (skew) looking for 110.

From this point, you will want to clear the switch matrix before continuing. Disconnect satellite from receiver, pull power cord, power up, run Check Switch. Now plug 110 LNB directly into receiver.

I ran the calculator - 110 is 5 degrees higher in elevation than 119 where you are. That means the 110 LNB must be LOWER than the 119 LNB. Make sure you're rotating the right direction - start with the skew setting of 118 degrees, and lock it down. That should get you close enough to start knudging - gently - in azimuth & elevation directions.

Do NOT be surprised when you have to compromise your signal strength on 119 to get a good number for 110 - that's just how it is.

Always use Transponder 11 for your tests. If that's what you got a 125 from 119, I would expect 100+ on both when you're done.

 

[olddog]

success
I have both sats 110--119 working and around 100 signal strength. switch check says odd even for both sats ?
Can not at this time tell any difference in programming[stations available]when i was only using 119 sat,compared to both working[have not surfed thru many channells yet ]
Why am i pointing to [2] sats what is the advantage?
Thanks for all the help
hard to teach an Old Dog new tricks , but you did

old dog

 

[SimpleSimon]

Try checking out:
http://www.dishchannelchart.com/
http://www.lyngsat.com/packages/america.html

That's how you tell what's where.

 

[dvbrules]

Hi, I am ready to pull my hair out trying to get both 110 & 119 working at the same time!!! Followed the great advice in this thread, setup 119 first (getting a 81 sig strength and 90 quality) tried everything (even using a sat finder) but can not get these values any higher. Then try to get 110 (getting a 67 sig strength and 0 quality),,, arhhhhhhh.... If I can get the 119

Do not know what I am doing wrong, I run things without the Diseq switch to get these values on

 

[SimpleSimon]

Welcome aboard dvbrules!

I have NOT reviewed this thread, so fresh start. It would be very helpful if we knew what equipment you have - LNB types, switch types, receiver models. Also, what's your location (a zipcode is very helpful).

My gut says that you might have issues with mount leveling or mis-set skew. Have you tried to peak 110 ALONE?

 

[dvbrules]

Thanks for the reply, I am using Dish Digital LNBF's (duals) in the Dish500 system with a Fortec Ultra receiver. My cable length is 100' with the Diseq switch installed (75' to the Diseq and then 25' to the receiver, is this too long?). I am located in Oakville Ontario with the goal settings of 223.5 Azimuth, 26.69 Elevation, and 115.5 Skew.

Here is the tool that gave me these numbers, (hopefully it will help someone else)
http://www3.telus.net/rampage/skew.htm

I am finding the 110 sat at 40 elevation and the 119 at 35 elevation.... so I am not hitting the expected numbers???

Also, I have tried both individually and hit approx the same numbers ie; 81 strength.....

I think my levelling is ok but will re-check, any other ideas?

 

[SimpleSimon]

Never heard of a Fortec receiver, and E* doesn't use "Diseq switch". If this is not a DishPro setup, distance could be an issue - keep that in mind for future problems.

There's no way you're actually getting the birds at 40 or 35 elevation - you've got a bad measurement somewhere - but who cares! From where you are, signal strength in the 80's is probably all you can hope for - you're kinda outside of CONUS, eh? Now all we've got to do is get both at once.

Just for reference, your 'straight-line' numbers are: 110=218/29 119=228/24. Notice that your Dish 500 numbers are about in the middle of that, which makes sense if you think about the geometry. So, if you're reading off the Dish 500's elevation scale, something's a bit hokey.

In any event, one way to go is to peak 119 and see what your measurements are. Now switch to the 110 LNBF and peak that, and get measurements. Average the two, set the dish, and see if the two birds come in the SAME. If not, double-check your skew.

Just guessing here, but I'd expect you to lose about 5 points on each from your best readings to your 'averaged' readings.