Surge Protectors - Use Them or Not?

[eacalhoun]

Is it recommended or discouraged to run Dish receivers through a surge protector? I'm referring to the power strip type. I read pros and cons (mostly cons) here and elsewhere. And...after having been a Dish customer for several years, I finally read the red tag attached to the end of the receiver's power cord:

"Plug into a standard wall-outlet or use a HomePlug compatible surge-protected strip ONLY."

How important is it to adhere to that tag's statement?

Where are or what are HomePlug compatible protectors? I could not find on on Dish's website.

Eric

 

[SSE]

It all honestly depends. Depending on the receiver you have, a surge protector has many cons. A lot of the time depending on the surge protector, you might turn it off at night for instance. That isn't good, for the receiver receives updates. Also, if you're set up with a Dish Comm or Slinglink for instance, a surge protector won't allow the receiver to connect to the internet. Just because you don't have an ethernet cable or wireless adapter connected to the receiver, does not mean it's not connected to the internet. The technology exists where it shares the internet through the power cable of some boxes, like the 722k. Plugging it to the internet is not required, but highly recommended. It provides better customer service, more software updates for the box, etc. Dish Network randomly hits boxes to make sure they're working properly, so hooking it to the internet is highly helpful. Dish Network also wants to know if EVERY account is hooked up to either a phone line, or internet. As a sub here in Georgia, we have to report such things. Even if we have to go out on a service call.

Now, if you're worried about losing the box to electrical damage, just make sure to have the service plan on your account and to replace a box it should only cost $15 for the tech visit fee.

 

[cditty]

If you are connected via Ethernet, I would use the surge protector. If you are using powerline networking, it may or may not work and it is probably best to go straight to the wall.

 

[inazsully]

You would be very surprised how much money it costs you at the end of the year by leaving electronic components plugged into a power source 24/7. I use a surge protector but leave my 722 independently plugged into a outlet thus allowing me to disconnect everything in my home theater system at night. I do the same thing with my computer and attached components. Hey, electricity is not getting any cheaper.

 

[jerryez]

I use APC brand battery backup/surge protectors on my computer, TV, sat receivers, and AV receiver. My 722 is connected to the internet via ethernet and I have never had a problem. Plus, when the power blinks which is quite often hear in NW Florida, I do not lose recording and my equipment is protected.

 

[ekilgus]

My power blinks with some regularity usually when the weather is acting up. This causes my TV and receiver to go into reboot. During these periods of rapid power on/power off's the power levels fluctuate as well. I resolved this by employing an APC S10 power conditioner. A little pricey but IMO worth it. Now when the power blinks the TV keeps on going.

 

[Teehar]

Local installer insisted that the vip models be connected directly to wall outlet.He claimed that they required more voltage to run properly.Since I carry the dish warranty plan left the 612 connected straight and connected the 622 straight as well.

 

[nsafreak]

As long as you're not using HomePlug networking then I'd recommend plugging it in to a surge protector. I have all of my equipment plugged into APC surge protectors/UPSs and I haven't had any issues at all. Oh and I disagree with cutting off the power to all of your equipment entirely each evening, it really doesn't save you that much in electricity and it causes more problems than the very few pennies than you save.

 

[jerryez]

+1

 

[whatchel1]

Local installer insisted that the vip models be connected directly to wall outlet.He claimed that they required more voltage to run properly.Since I carry the dish warranty plan left the 612 connected straight and connected the 622 straight as well.

That's are really good joke. The voltage is no higher from the wall outlet. :haha:haha

 

[JosephB]

Local installer insisted that the vip models be connected directly to wall outlet.He claimed that they required more voltage to run properly.Since I carry the dish warranty plan left the 612 connected straight and connected the 622 straight as well.

That's a load of crap. The only reason for the tag on the cord is because of the DishComm networking. Most surge protectors filter that stuff out. If you're not using DishComm (IE: you have ethernet connected or a phone line connected to all receivers) it doesn't matter.

Now, as to the question of whether or not you should use a surge protector? Only if you need more than two outlets at your location. If lightning strikes, it's going to blast straight through the protector, and you'll have better luck with your homeowner's/renter's insurance than you would trying to collect from the 'guarantee' from the company that made the surge protector anyway.

 

[daranman]

I use a UPS for my DVRs to allow me to shutdown the machines in case there is an extended outage. It doesn't happen all that often, and its probably now designed out, but I want to avoid a head to disc crash caused by sudden power shutdown.

 

[TG2]

Electric use when off & Power/Surge protections

As long as you're not using HomePlug networking then I'd recommend plugging it in to a surge protector. I have all of my equipment plugged into APC surge protectors/UPSs and I haven't had any issues at all. Oh and I disagree with cutting off the power to all of your equipment entirely each evening, it really doesn't save you that much in electricity and it causes more problems than the very few pennies than you save.

First .. I use UPS's on my equipment too. The heavy draw stuff (Onkyo 1100Watt receiver, Tube & Flat screen TVs) get plugged into the surge side, while things like VCR, Dish 722k, & Bluray get plugged into the battery backup side. One thing I've not done yet, is look for a really good spike/surge protector to put the dish sat cable inputs through. The dish is external to the house, and while mine is low/beside the house, its still has potential to receive lightning ...

Anyway.. I really want to comment about NSAFreak's "disagree" in regards to softpower items.

from Berkley:

An individual product draws relatively little standby power (see here for examples) but a typical American home has forty products constantly drawing power. Together these amount to almost 10% of residential electricity use.

Standby Power @ Berkly/US Gov Labs

Now I don't know about you folks.. but I have 5 pc's in this house, 7 monitors (3 of which older tube type), the onkyo receiver, the bluray, a 5 disk dvd, the vcr, dvd/vcr recorder, 5 TV's, 2 722's, 1 211k, Wii, upstairs dvd player, 4 cell phones, washing machine (yes its a newer soft-power type, not the old "Pull The Knob" type), three external hard drives, 4 printers (2 inkjet, 1 soho laser, 1 hp 5si <does 11x17 prints>), 2nd receiver/amp (for office computer), 3rd receiver/amp (living room dish 211k) so that's... what 41 devices.. (oh, forgot I have 5 landline cordless telephones and the base station too!)

if I added to that, turning off the hotwater heater during the day when not needed ... I'm sure I could save that 10% ... my last bill was 550 for two months service, so... 50 bucks I could save. That's a tank of gas for the Jeep, two tanks for the neon .. or a modest 3 person dinner out.

I think it is naive to think 40 plus devices all using 10 or more watts of power when "off" isn't going to add up. 4 100watt light bulbs.. why wouldn't you see that as potential savings, or consider it only pennies? Its not only pennies ... now if you only have your TV, 722k, one cell phone, and no other soft power items.. maybe yes its pennies for you, and it wouldn't be that much in savings.. but if you look closely and realize exactly how many soft power devices you have ... the wattage adds up.

Take Note: inkjet printers don't like hard power off ... the next time they start up they will do an extended type of cleaning to make sure the head isn't clogged, so power removed from the device will eat up your ink.

 

[whatchel1]

That's a load of crap. The only reason for the tag on the cord is because of the DishComm networking. Most surge protectors filter that stuff out. If you're not using DishComm (IE: you have ethernet connected or a phone line connected to all receivers) it doesn't matter.

Now, as to the question of whether or not you should use a surge protector? Only if you need more than two outlets at your location. If lightning strikes, it's going to blast straight through the protector, and you'll have better luck with your homeowner's/renter's insurance than you would trying to collect from the 'guarantee' from the company that made the surge protector anyway.

Depends on the company. Panamax pays I had a customer that collected on an C band system I put in several years ago.

 

[nsafreak]

First .. I use UPS's on my equipment too. The heavy draw stuff (Onkyo 1100Watt receiver, Tube & Flat screen TVs) get plugged into the surge side, while things like VCR, Dish 722k, & Bluray get plugged into the battery backup side. One thing I've not done yet, is look for a really good spike/surge protector to put the dish sat cable inputs through. The dish is external to the house, and while mine is low/beside the house, its still has potential to receive lightning ...

Anyway.. I really want to comment about NSAFreak's "disagree" in regards to softpower items.

from Berkley:
Standby Power @ Berkly/US Gov Labs

Now I don't know about you folks.. but I have 5 pc's in this house, 7 monitors (3 of which older tube type), the onkyo receiver, the bluray, a 5 disk dvd, the vcr, dvd/vcr recorder, 5 TV's, 2 722's, 1 211k, Wii, upstairs dvd player, 4 cell phones, washing machine (yes its a newer soft-power type, not the old "Pull The Knob" type), three external hard drives, 4 printers (2 inkjet, 1 soho laser, 1 hp 5si <does 11x17 prints>), 2nd receiver/amp (for office computer), 3rd receiver/amp (living room dish 211k) so that's... what 41 devices.. (oh, forgot I have 5 landline cordless telephones and the base station too!)

if I added to that, turning off the hotwater heater during the day when not needed ... I'm sure I could save that 10% ... my last bill was 550 for two months service, so... 50 bucks I could save. That's a tank of gas for the Jeep, two tanks for the neon .. or a modest 3 person dinner out.

I think it is naive to think 40 plus devices all using 10 or more watts of power when "off" isn't going to add up. 4 100watt light bulbs.. why wouldn't you see that as potential savings, or consider it only pennies? Its not only pennies ... now if you only have your TV, 722k, one cell phone, and no other soft power items.. maybe yes its pennies for you, and it wouldn't be that much in savings.. but if you look closely and realize exactly how many soft power devices you have ... the wattage adds up.

Take Note: inkjet printers don't like hard power off ... the next time they start up they will do an extended type of cleaning to make sure the head isn't clogged, so power removed from the device will eat up your ink.

Inkjet printers aren't the only devices that don't like a hard power off, believe me. I can literally walk around my place by the glow of my various activity/standby/power/etc. LEDs on my various networking, a/v, telephony, etc. gear. It may come down to that you save cash if you turn off your gear entirely but a lot of it also has to do with how efficient your gear is and how well it goes into standby power. I did a simple test to see how much my main PC could make a difference in terms of my power bill by doing two different power plans over two months. One month I had it set so that the PC was always completely on but had the monitors (gotta love multi monitor setups) go into standby after 15 minutes of inactivity from the PC. The following month I had it set so that the monitors went into standby after 15 minutes and the PC went into sleep mode (S3 mode I believe, everything is shut down and a snapshot is saved to RAM) after an hour of inactivity. There was a difference in my electrical bill, not huge but it was there so I've stuck with that power plan since Windows 7 is so much better than previous versions at coming out of sleep mode rapidly it's really no big deal.

I have tried the full shutoff idea for the rest of my gear but it just causes more problems than it fixes and some of my A/V gear simply doesn't like a hard power cutoff. It really doesn't work for my servers either since they're handling networking duties such as DHCP, SMB, etc. al. So I'll give some clarification here, if you want to do some hard power cutoffs and see if it helps with your power bill feel free. However be aware that modern electronics have gotten progressively more efficient on the amount of standby power they use. Newer equipment is less likely to be as power hungry in standby as equipment of old. Also keep in mind that there's some equipment that you simply do not want to do hard power cutoffs on a regular basis.

 

[DishSubLA]

Inkjet printers aren't the only devices that don't like a hard power off, believe me. I can literally walk around my place by the glow of my various activity/standby/power/etc. LEDs on my various networking, a/v, telephony, etc. gear. It may come down to that you save cash if you turn off your gear entirely but a lot of it also has to do with how efficient your gear is and how well it goes into standby power. I did a simple test to see how much my main PC could make a difference in terms of my power bill by doing two different power plans over two months. One month I had it set so that the PC was always completely on but had the monitors (gotta love multi monitor setups) go into standby after 15 minutes of inactivity from the PC. The following month I had it set so that the monitors went into standby after 15 minutes and the PC went into sleep mode (S3 mode I believe, everything is shut down and a snapshot is saved to RAM) after an hour of inactivity. There was a difference in my electrical bill, not huge but it was there so I've stuck with that power plan since Windows 7 is so much better than previous versions at coming out of sleep mode rapidly it's really no big deal.

I have tried the full shutoff idea for the rest of my gear but it just causes more problems than it fixes and some of my A/V gear simply doesn't like a hard power cutoff. It really doesn't work for my servers either since they're handling networking duties such as DHCP, SMB, etc. al. So I'll give some clarification here, if you want to do some hard power cutoffs and see if it helps with your power bill feel free. However be aware that modern electronics have gotten progressively more efficient on the amount of standby power they use. Newer equipment is less likely to be as power hungry in standby as equipment of old. Also keep in mind that there's some equipment that you simply do not want to do hard power cutoffs on a regular basis.

Totally agree. Penny wise, pond foolish. I am one to shut off things if not in use and turn off lights in rooms if not needed and I don't like waste, but I don't lie awake at night worrying about the cost of stand-by power because, as you pointed out, the devices need it, and it is not going to have anything close to a significant impact on a household budget, and if it did, then those people need a bankruptcy lawyer right away.

If people a truly serious about saving electrical $$, then don't use the A/C or Heater or the fan that drives a central air unit. Also, no refrigerator, Washing Machine or Dryer, Dish-washing machine and you will see your bill reduce by THOUSANDS of dollars per year, even TENS of thousands per year depending upon the size of your home and how cool or warm you like your house or apartment. Now, that's a real savings! The "phantom" power drain as an argument for an individual household power cost (now, collectively is a different argument) is an example of an itty bitty virtual nothing effect designed to make people feel better about making an effort to save somewhere so they can fell good to indulge somewhere else. While some people may feel good to cut back on visits to Starbucks or chocolate chip cookies, the truth is if they would be much better off ending their $400 per month car payment for the SUV and get a used Volkswagen, instead, with phenomenal gas mileage, lower insurance costs and lower state registration fees, and NO MONTHLY PAYMENT. Whoo-hoo! Now, that is some serious cash enriching change. Heck, even renting an apartment instead of buying a house for many people can make them cash rich than if they became an owner.

Now, every little bit counts, collectively on a grand scale, but for an individual household a savings of $7 or $15 or, OK, let's say even $20 per year isn't going to have the impact needed to truly make a difference, and if someone is truly concerned about that minuscule difference, than they are headed for bankruptcy any day now, and in such a desperate situation it is time to sell the house or cancel the TV subscription and what are they doing with toys like PC's and TV's and DVR's anyway? I have to give "props" to those who have cut pay TV out and our now trudging through OTA only and on-line for their entertainment. Now those people are serious about saving and have quite a bit of extra cash each month that really makes a difference in household costs. I may have to go that route myself because it represents a tremendous savings, but until then, I guess I'm still with Dish as long as I can afford it.

 

[whatchel1]

My Panny 42" plasma hates power off. If it is "hard powered off" it looses the programming that has been stored. Picture adjustments willstay but either OTA or cable channels are gone.

 

[JosephB]

The worst culprits of vampire power are AC to DC transformers. Disconnecting your TV, amps, washer, etc. is kind of dumb. However you SHOULD disconnect any AC to DC power adapters such as phone chargers, iPod chargers, etc. that aren't being used. Even without any devices connected, they draw some power. And not really enough for you to notice on your electric bill, but it's one of those 'if everyone does it, it'll make a huge difference' kind of things.

One thing I've not done yet, is look for a really good spike/surge protector to put the dish sat cable inputs through. The dish is external to the house, and while mine is low/beside the house, its still has potential to receive lightning ...

If your dish gets struck by lightning, that thing isn't going to help you. Just make sure it's properly grounded outside and where it comes into your house and forget about running it through a surge protector. That thing will just introduce some not insignificant signal loss.

The best thing to use would be a UPS that is always running off the battery, as opposed to one that only provides power from the battery when the power goes off. That way your power is 'cleaned' and you avoid spikes/dips. But in terms of a 100,000 volt bolt of lightning, nothing that you buy at Best Buy or Walmart will protect you.

 

[Teehar]

That's are really good joke. The voltage is no higher from the wall outlet. :haha:haha

Yea I never questioned him just listened to his explanation.He said he had installed many vip irds and that they had,had numerous problems with them because of surge protectors and outlet strips.He damn near killed our pet bird which we had on the porch in the sun spraying bee spray for a wasp nest.Also told me I had no LOS for 129 even after I had told him that I had a dish for 129 with decent signal on the back of the house.If they ever try to send him again I'll flatly refuse.

 

[TG2]

Lets give some real world numbers.

100 Watts x 24 hrs x 60 days = 144000 Watt/hours or ... 144 kW/hrs

In my area of Virginia, we have Distribution, and an "Electric Supply" which is further broken into Energy Charge, and LPPF (level pur. pwr factor)

Distro: .02243
E-Chrg: .03918
LPPF: .02877

So 100 watts, 24 hrs a day, 60 days, is 144 kW/Hrs

144 * .02243 = 3.23
144 * .03918 = 5.64
144 * .02877 = 4.14
--------------------
Total: $13.01

That's just on 100 Watts 24 hrs a day for 60 days for me.

Add to that, putting a hot water heater on a timer, and installing a timer for your heat/AC, or just turning off before you leave for work, and turning on when you get home, you could very easily double and triple the amount of savings per avg 2 month billing cycle.

13 bucks ... that's a movie ticket, a 10 dollar bucket of KFC chicken on sunday ... or nearly 80 bucks in a year. That's your netflix account paid for, by not leaving the constantly power consuming devices on, when they don't need that power in standby mode.

and I'm not including my wireless router, nor my VOIP box in the ideal figures .. I need those on, I need them available 24x7. But I've got plenty of *other* things that I don't need on standby.



And a note about that "sleep" study for power use on that PC ... its Hibernation that stops using the most electricity, sleep mode is a low power state, where hibernation writes your session to disk and turns off the pc. But a normal desktop PC, even in the OFF state still has soft power to it and still consumes 1 to 20 watts (standby/sleep using more than standby/hibernate). The only way to have it use *no* electricity is to remove the power cord, or to turn off the PC's power supply if so equiped with an On/Off switch on the back of the system where the power cord plugs in.