Switch from cable? (1 Viewer)

S43R80

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Apr 22, 2004
55
0
Hello all,

I'm considering switching and the deals look pretty good (the 4 room/4 receiver deal from vmc), but I have some doubts...

Firstly, the comcast cable we currently have is terrible. That is, the reception is bad. I'm convinced that the number and quality of the spliters along with the > 10 year old wiring is the culprit. I am sure that the cable company will fix this if I complain. However, for less than the cable company price I can get twice the number of channels...

So, I have some general questions (for you knowledgeable guys) and would much appreciate a response (especially since the vmc website says that the 'dea' expires in just a couple of days):

*1.* My main question: How is it possible to rewire a house that already has wiring going through walls, in and out of basements, through half finished basement room walls, etc... etc... I can't imagine there be any way to run cables to 6 rooms without having wires dangling from ceilings to TVs, going in and out of walls, etc...

2. I'm assuming that a cable must be run from the dish to each reciever? What about dual receiver models? How are the slave tv's connected?

3. VCRs can still be connected and record programming, correct?

4. Assuming I get the 4 room/4 receiver deal, and purchase (not rent) two additional standard receivers (NO DVR), is there any additional "programming cost". That is, will the price still be exactly "$44.99"/month as listed on vmc's website (120 channels)? Are there any "hidden" costs (I'm guessing there will be a monthly tax of course).

5. How messy can the extra wiring get?

I'm sorry for the rather long message, but I'd rather hear answers to the above from actual customers rather than a sales rep.

Thanks
 

Cyclone

Proud Stiff Member
Supporting Founder
Sep 9, 2003
2,586
14
Maryland
10 yr old wiring isn't that old. Plus all of the Satellite stuff is digital, so it will likely do just fine on your existing cables.

Duel tuner models will require two cable runs.

VCR's can record, but have to use the an input such as Ch 3 on the RF connector, or the composite connector (yellow, red, white). The Dish receiver will actually be able to tell your VCR to start/stop recording. So you can set up a recording by use the Dish receiver's program guide instead of the VCR's timer.

So you will have six TVs in total? Well, there are $5/mo fees for each receiver besides the first one. So you will be looking at an extra $25/mo for your 2nd through sixth receivers. If you want locals networks, they cost another $6/mo.

How messy can the wiring get? Depends on your installer.
 

S43R80

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Apr 22, 2004
55
0
Woah...

An extra $25/month! It looks like I missed a "minor" detail (must have been in the small print). Well, I guess I'll be calling the cable company :(.
 

BarryO

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 11, 2003
188
0
And with six (!) receivers, they'll almost certainly want them all hooked to a phone line, so that they know you're not "sharing" your account with friends and neighbors.

BTW, standard installation includes running wires around the outside if the house, and drilling through walls where the TV is located. Anything else is considered custom (alomost certainly extra $$$).
 

ahlemann

Member
Feb 20, 2004
6
0
Before calling the cable company, keep in mind that you can share a receiver's output between several TVs. They would all be on the same channel but if you only have maximum 3 people watching TV at the same time, you only need 3 tuners.

With the DHA plan you would only be paying $5 more for up to 4 tuners (2 dual-tuner receivers) than for 1 tuner, if you have both receivers connected to a phone line. The second TV on each dual-tuner receiver in most cases will be hooked up with regular coax cable but the receivers also have a composite output for the second tuner.

What you could do is to combine the output of all 4 tuners to the coax cable that is already installed in your house and you can watch upto 4 different programs in any number of rooms that you want TVs in.

It all depends on your specific situation and if you would be willing to spend some time and extra money on getting this all set up.
 

fslove

SatelliteGuys Family
Oct 16, 2003
99
0
S43R80 said:
Hello all,

I'm considering switching and the deals look pretty good (the 4 room/4 receiver deal from vmc), but I have some doubts...

Firstly, the comcast cable we currently have is terrible. That is, the reception is bad. I'm convinced that the number and quality of the spliters along with the > 10 year old wiring is the culprit. I am sure that the cable company will fix this if I complain. However, for less than the cable company price I can get twice the number of channels...

So, I have some general questions (for you knowledgeable guys) and would much appreciate a response (especially since the vmc website says that the 'dea' expires in just a couple of days):

*1.* My main question: How is it possible to rewire a house that already has wiring going through walls, in and out of basements, through half finished basement room walls, etc... etc... I can't imagine there be any way to run cables to 6 rooms without having wires dangling from ceilings to TVs, going in and out of walls, etc...

2. I'm assuming that a cable must be run from the dish to each reciever? What about dual receiver models? How are the slave tv's connected?

3. VCRs can still be connected and record programming, correct?

4. Assuming I get the 4 room/4 receiver deal, and purchase (not rent) two additional standard receivers (NO DVR), is there any additional "programming cost". That is, will the price still be exactly "$44.99"/month as listed on vmc's website (120 channels)? Are there any "hidden" costs (I'm guessing there will be a monthly tax of course).

5. How messy can the extra wiring get?

I'm sorry for the rather long message, but I'd rather hear answers to the above from actual customers rather than a sales rep.

Thanks

1. As stated above the wiring will be done from the outside through the walls into the each room. If you have a basement then they can run the wires into the basement up through the first floor, floors. Second floor will need to be wired from the dish through the outter wall into the room. You can pay extra to get all wires hidden in walls but it will be VERY expensive! I HIGHLY recommend you do NOT go through VMC! They are simply box sellers and you are going to get some DNSC or other goofball installer that they sub out to and you will most likely NOT be pleased with their work. Go to the Dish Network website and search for a local retailer in your area and you will get the same deal but they will do a much better install job. Plus if you need any service afterwards you have a local retailer who can help you out. Going through the Internet or Dish direct they will put you on a list and maybe you'll get a service call in a week or so. And you DO NOT want to use 10 year old wiring whether it's RG-6 or not! You need at least 2GHz. sweep tested RG-6 wiring and 10 years ago it did not exist! If the installers try to say it's OK tell them to leave! It will most likely work right away but the higher voltage that the DishPro receivers/LNBF use can not be tolerated by a lesser RG-6 wire and you will have wirng problems in the future!

2. Dual Tuner receiver need two cables run from the dish to the receiver (until later in the year when Dish has switches that can carry both runs on a single wire) so if you need more then 4 cable runs then you will need to pay for more expensive switches to do so. Slave TV's can simply be hooked up by taking the RF output and running it to the second TV (or if the TV with the receiver is using the RF outout you simply split the output and run it to both TV's) You can buy IR/UHF extenders that allow you to control a receiver in another room from the room with the secodn TV hooked up. They run about $35-$40.

3. VCR's work just great with satellite.

4. The two additional receiver you buy will each require a $4.99 mirro fee which would then bring the price up to $54.99 a month.

5. Not sure what you mena by messy wiring but there can be alot of wiring involved with a 6 receiver (including two dual tuner receivers) but if it's installed correctly it will look nice and neat.

Again I warn you, you should find a local Dish retailer and go through them. You will get much better service and installation.

Also VMC is using high pressure tactics with their "only three days left" promo ploy! This is a ongoing promo that will be going much longer then 3 days!
 

jlhugh

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Nov 25, 2003
866
0
Austin, Texas, United States
I use to be an installer for Dish. We had to run the wires thru the walls. I was told that was part of the install and would get in trouble for charging for a wall fish. Then I did some work for D* and I could charge what I wanted to for a wall fish.

I guess some installers don't take as much pride in their installs as I did. I was out to make a customer for life and money that will last a week.
 

S43R80

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Apr 22, 2004
55
0
Some more questions

Hi, I have a few more questions if you don't mind...

fslove said:
1. As stated above the wiring will be done from the outside through the walls into the each room. If you have a basement then they can run the wires into the basement up through the first floor, floors. Second floor will need to be wired from the dish through the outter wall into the room. You can pay extra to get all wires hidden in walls but it will be VERY expensive! I HIGHLY recommend you do NOT go through VMC! They are simply box sellers and you are going to get some DNSC or other goofball installer that they sub out to and you will most likely NOT be pleased with their work. Go to the Dish Network website and search for a local retailer in your area and you will get the same deal but they will do a much better install job. Plus if you need any service afterwards you have a local retailer who can help you out. Going through the Internet or Dish direct they will put you on a list and maybe you'll get a service call in a week or so. And you DO NOT want to use 10 year old wiring whether it's RG-6 or not! You need at least 2GHz. sweep tested RG-6 wiring and 10 years ago it did not exist! If the installers try to say it's OK tell them to leave! It will most likely work right away but the higher voltage that the DishPro receivers/LNBF use can not be tolerated by a lesser RG-6 wire and you will have wirng problems in the future!

What exactly is meant by "wiring done outside the house? Suppose the dish is on the house, and there are two tvs at complete opposite ends of the house...does this mean a wire will run from the dish to each opposite ends of the house (from the outside) and then two holes will be drilled into the house (at each opposite end)?

fslove said:
2. Dual Tuner receiver need two cables run from the dish to the receiver (until later in the year when Dish has switches that can carry both runs on a single wire) so if you need more then 4 cable runs then you will need to pay for more expensive switches to do so. Slave TV's can simply be hooked up by taking the RF output and running it to the second TV (or if the TV with the receiver is using the RF outout you simply split the output and run it to both TV's) You can buy IR/UHF extenders that allow you to control a receiver in another room from the room with the secodn TV hooked up. They run about $35-$40.

Ok, so, lets say i reduce the number of tv's to 5 (instead of 6) where now one SPECIFIC TV will share the incoming signal with another specifci TV. Now, you are saying that with 5 signals coming fromt he satellite (2 dual tuner recievers and 1 standard), I'll need to pay extra? That is, the satellite doesn't directly support 5 signals?

The RF output? Of what? Is there a RF output on the reciever that coax cables connect to?

Also, an extender is just a remote control type device that can be bought at any electronics store?

fslove said:
4. The two additional receiver you buy will each require a $4.99 mirro fee which would then bring the price up to $54.99 a month.

I still haven't quite given up on satellite yet, but I think satellite is mostly ideal for houses with few tvs. Otherwise, it can cost at or more than the price for cable. I'm still consider satellite now, but with only 5 tvs (2 dual receivers and 1 regular).

I would like two specific tvs to share the same single regular reciever. Will the installer do this along with installing the other two dual tuners?

Will satellite installers "deal." That is, if I want installation for 5 tvs (with a 6th being a slave) installed for me with NO isntallation fees, will the company agree to it?

Also, I imagine a reciever to be like a cable box. That is, the tv will remain on the same channel, while the channel is actually changed (and displayed) from the box. In the case of a dual tuner, how will the TV that is connected to the 2nd output of the reciever display the channel number which it is currently on?

fslove said:
Again I warn you, you should find a local Dish retailer and go through them. You will get much better service and installation.

Thanks, there is one not too far away...I just checked.

fslove said:
Also VMC is using high pressure tactics with their "only three days left" promo ploy! This is a ongoing promo that will be going much longer then 3 days

Err...you are indeed right! According to VMS, the promotion would have ended a bunch of times by now :). Just for that, I'll never ever go through VMC.

Thanks, and sorry for all of the questions...
 

bcshields

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
Nov 28, 2003
1,458
0
Delaware
fslove said:
I HIGHLY recommend you do NOT go through VMC! They are simply box sellers and you are going to get some DNSC or other goofball installer that they sub out to and you will most likely NOT be pleased with their work.

I resent that. Some DNSC's and RSP's work hard to do a professional installation. Don't stereotype. I've seen some nasty retailer installs too. Depends on the tech's work ethic.

Nothing is different with VMC, all they are is a faceless salesman.. I would suggest you talk to a person though, so you know what you're getting into with disclosures, additional fees, etc. VMC will make that the fine print noone reads.
 

bcshields

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
Nov 28, 2003
1,458
0
Delaware
S43R80 said:
What exactly is meant by "wiring done outside the house? Suppose the dish is on the house, and there are two tvs at complete opposite ends of the house...does this mean a wire will run from the dish to each opposite ends of the house (from the outside) and then two holes will be drilled into the house (at each opposite end)?

Yup.

S43R80 said:
Ok, so, lets say i reduce the number of tv's to 5 (instead of 6) where now one SPECIFIC TV will share the incoming signal with another specifci TV. Now, you are saying that with 5 signals coming fromt he satellite (2 dual tuner recievers and 1 standard), I'll need to pay extra? That is, the satellite doesn't directly support 5 signals?

The DHA promo covers 4 tuners.. Dish will ask you to pay for the 5th standard reciever and the additional DP34 switch to accomodate it. It'll work just fine. $99 reciever, $109ish for the DP34.

S43R80 said:
I would like two specific tvs to share the same single regular reciever. Will the installer do this along with installing the other two dual tuners?

Will satellite installers "deal." That is, if I want installation for 5 tvs (with a 6th being a slave) installed for me with NO isntallation fees, will the company agree to it?

Say you have your 4 tuners running to 5 tv's (meaning the 5th will mirror another TV in the house) this is a cheaper alternative, a tech will generally charge 1 hour of labor, which flexes depending on the tech. (ours is $59/hr)

You'll get a salesman to say anything so you sign up.. a tech won't work for free. Depends on the tech, but I'll say he'll probably charge for the 5th tv mirror.

Also, I imagine a reciever to be like a cable box. That is, the tv will remain on the same channel, while the channel is actually changed (and displayed) from the box. In the case of a dual tuner, how will the TV that is connected to the 2nd output of the reciever display the channel number which it is currently on?

you're right. the second tuner works on a TV channel higher up (like in the 73 range) but it works on the same principle.



Thanks, and sorry for all of the questions...

that's what we're here for.
 

S43R80

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Apr 22, 2004
55
0
bcshields said:
The DHA promo covers 4 tuners.. Dish will ask you to pay for the 5th standard reciever and the additional DP34 switch to accomodate it. It'll work just fine. $99 reciever, $109ish for the DP34.
I have no problem purchasing the extra $99 receiver, but also buying a $100 switch is just a little bit ridiculous to me. Tack like $5.00 on per month, and it would be like cable company prices for 20 months (until the "value" of the switch pays for itself). This really isn't sounding like a good deal, unfortunately :(.

bcshields said:
Say you have your 4 tuners running to 5 tv's (meaning the 5th will mirror another TV in the house) this is a cheaper alternative, a tech will generally charge 1 hour of labor, which flexes depending on the tech. (ours is $59/hr)
So, with the "free installation" from the DHA promo, I'm guessing that the first hour is free, and any subsequent time spent comes out of the customer's pocket? This is again, unfortunate :(.
I'm not really a cheap person, but I'm just trying to ensure that switching to satellite (in the end) costs less than cable. This really doesn't seem the case (with additional fees tacked on to the Dish prices being apportioned over some length of time), seeing that we currently have 6 TVs receiving cable - granted the reception isn't that great, but still..

bcshields said:
you're right. the second tuner works on a TV channel higher up (like in the 73 range) but it works on the same principle.
So, the person on the slave TV will not be able to know which channel the TV is actually on? Example: You really want to know what channel the TV is currently on (what is being watched) for some reason. But, there is no way to see this, since the receiver is not in the room...

Thanks again,

Oh, one more thing. How is Dish around snow, rain, wind, etc... I'm in southern new england...
 

snathanb

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Feb 26, 2004
2,580
1
DFW
S43R80 said:
So, with the "free installation" from the DHA promo, I'm guessing that the first hour is free, and any subsequent time spent comes out of the customer's pocket? .

That's not what was meant... the DHA promo install will cover installing the 4 tuners that are part of the DHA package. If you purchase a 5th or wan't to mirror to a 5th TV, that would be beyond the standard install, and you would most likely have to pick up the tab for that.
 

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