The DVR info we DIDN'T get

madpoet

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Here's the list of what I wanted to hear about, and we didn't seem to get anything solid on:

1) Firewire... yay or nay?
2) Pricing... rent or own? Will owners of current hardware get the promised price break?
3) When they say they are all networkable, what does that mean? Unit to unit streaming? What kind of network connection is used (I ask because at one point it was coax)?
4) Can existing boxes be upgraded to stream from the DVR? Or will they have to be replaced?
5) Since these look to be stand-alone DVRs, what happened to the whole house solution?
6) What kind of outputs does the DVR have, and does it still support downconverting to SD for SVideo the way the current receiver does?

Anyone have any others? So far, I rate CES as a disapointment. They marginally displayed the DVR, and didn't get into any real nitty gritty with it. I hope we get more.

-MP
 

jnardone

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Jan 20, 2004
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Is it in production?
How many units?
Is there still going to be a program for charter members to swap their purchased receivers for the DVR?
How many days ahead does PG include?
Will the larger dish be needed for the different program guide or is it on the same satellite as the other PG?
USB port for additional capacity?
 

jagouar

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1. No firewire
2. they wouldnt say pricing but said there will be a rent option as of right now.
3. If you need to know the networking go see the preview video (they said it will use ethernet and coax on launch)... a dongle from the usb connection on the back.
4. Said all the current boxes need is a software update.
5. This is the whole house DVR.
6. Didnt look at the box myself that closely but I seem to remember it being exaclty like the current box (even looks exactly the same as the current box just different innards)
 

Sean Mota

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jagouar said:
1. No firewire

This one dissappoints me... :( It looks like we are not going to get lucky with this one from anyone. Except for Comcast and other cable companies, I don't see how we are going to get this one ever on any DVR.

1- how is the setup connection. Does it need two coax cable coming from the satellite to the two tuners or just one.

2 - It is not clear to me how the recording works. Does it work like the other DVRs out there. Record two simultaneously and watch a third one.

3- does it have PIP?

4- does it have name based recording (not sure it was asked or answered).

5- This concept of channel (instead of folder archiving) does it mean that I may create channels for any type of recording in the harddrive. That is if I record a bunch of cartoon, can I make a cartoon channel. How many channels can I make simultaneously? Need more information on this one to understand it.
 

madpoet

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jagouar, thanks. The networking part still isn't completely clear to me, especially since the preview video is fairly old at this point. I was hoping they'd go to CAT5-based networking instead. Ah well.
 

jagouar

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well im sure scott will have a video up soon which is why im refraining thrying to explain it, it would be much easier to watch a video vs me trying to explain it. They will go CAT5 (he said this would be the most likely default option) but there would be adaptors for coax and possibly phoneline (the phoneline was still being examined).

Sean,

It will be name based recording,

It looks like it will only need on cable for each box (there was a much larger combiner on the dvr vs the small one on the current box).

I asked how many boxes one sattelite could support (esp since alot of people will probably get 2 boxes... i know if its fairly cheap I will)... but he didnt know much about that.

No PIP (that was shown).

Im not sure if I understood him right but he said it would only record 2 shows at once and watch unlimited streams from the network.

I like you am unsure if the guide recording listing will work.... I guess well have to wait until the final release to play with it and see if its going to work.
 

Ilya

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jagouar said:
It looks like it will only need on cable for each box (there was a much larger combiner on the dvr vs the small one on the current box).
I would think you need two cables in order to receive two channels of different polarity at the same time.
 

soledade

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I think what he meant was:

1) From the dish to the DVR there will be a need for 2 cables (polarity like you said).

2) From the DVR to the rest of the house you need 1 coax (use the existing RJ6 cable network in your house; disconnected at the service box from the cable company of course). This single coax will carry IP over coax.

3) Clients will need to tap into the IP over coax to receive streams. So the clients will need one connection.

4) You can replace #2 and #3 with some form of CAT5/CAT6 network.

5) The broadcast over single coax network will require USB to COAX adapters at each box, as none of the coax inputs and outputs in the existing boxes can handle IP.

7) I would be shocked if they got this to work over phone line. I am a comm engineer and the bandwidth is just not there with simple twisted pair wiring.


My 2 speculative cents,
Carlos
 

Ilya

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Yes, that's how I see it too.
As for (7), they could use the phone line for SD-only streams. I think that's what Ucentric is doing with their SD thin clients.
 

vurbano

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I sure would love just to run one ethernet cable from the DVR and clients to my 2 routers and instantly network everything together with the xboxes, phones and computers even internet. WOW imagine downloads right from the net onto your DVR and playing on TV from some browser program residing on the DVR?

And actually one ethernet cable can provide 2 connections. A computer only uses 4 of the 8 wires. I use a device on some of my cables on both ends that allows for simultaneous ussage of one cable by 2 computers.
 

Scotty

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does it look like it will be able to use wireless usb adapters for connection to wifi networks, like the tivo units can?
 

jagouar

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i know about the whole polarity issue.... but on the back of the box there was only one input (like the current box has the little gray box on the back..dunno technical name for it) that combines the antenna and sat connections (so the voom box only needs one cable)

The DVR has a similar box except its much larger (about half of the length of the box) and there arent any other coax inputs on the back of the box.... that lead me to beleive somehow it uses a single coax input (ie one wire).

Ill drop by tomorrow if i have time and ask this particular question for verification. I actually want to ask them about how many streams the single dish can sustain.... I know if they price it right most people will get atleast 2 boxes for the added tuners and capacity (I kow I will if theyre $10-15)... And you can increase tuners real fast that way. DVR plus each client box.
 

vurbano

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soledade said:
I think what he meant was:

1) From the dish to the DVR there will be a need for 2 cables (polarity like you said).

2) From the DVR to the rest of the house you need 1 coax (use the existing RJ6 cable network in your house; disconnected at the service box from the cable company of course). This single coax will carry IP over coax.

3) Clients will need to tap into the IP over coax to receive streams. So the clients will need one connection.

4) You can replace #2 and #3 with some form of CAT5/CAT6 network.

5) The broadcast over single coax network will require USB to COAX adapters at each box, as none of the coax inputs and outputs in the existing boxes can handle IP.

7) I would be shocked if they got this to work over phone line. I am a comm engineer and the bandwidth is just not there with simple twisted pair wiring.


My 2 speculative cents,
Carlos
Ok heres a laugh, can you imagine the clusterf$ck if you had #2 and #3 solved by cat5e to your network router and an INSTALS INC installer fooling with your router table network setup? And you thought OTA installation was bad? I can just imagine the posts about this now. "Voom fried all my computers!!!!!!!!"
 

soledade

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vurbano said:
Ok heres a laugh, can you imagine the clusterf$ck if you had #2 and #3 solved by cat5e to your network router and an INSTALS INC installer fooling with your router table network setup?
LOL :D
 

madpoet

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I do question how they would be able to support so many streams from a single hard drive. Being able to archive 2 HD streams and play a 3rd at the same time is just about the througput of a standard IDE drive, which it seems like they are using. You will also be bandwidth-limited in your streams, since I doubt the boxes support GigE.
 

Technut

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vurbano said:
Ok heres a laugh, can you imagine the clusterf$ck if you had #2 and #3 solved by cat5e to your network router and an INSTALS INC installer fooling with your router table network setup? And you thought OTA installation was bad? I can just imagine the posts about this now. "Voom fried all my computers!!!!!!!!"

Please allow self installs VOOM


LOL - could you imagine the bitching from the installers "WTH we have to install more than 1 cable"......... The bitching I have heard from the installers is hilarious, the argument went soething along the lines of " Directtv pays me a little more and i dont even have to install a extra OTA antenna and run the extra wires"
 

nyjklein

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Ilya said:
Yes, that's how I see it too.
As for (7), they could use the phone line for SD-only streams. I think that's what Ucentric is doing with their SD thin clients.
Putting all of the pieces of the puzzle together, discussions from ucentric, the description and video from the VOOM booth someone posted, the fact that recorded shows are displayed by "tuning" the STB to a particular channel, the fact that the video says that existing VOOM STBs can display content from the DVR, my conclusions:

The "networking" is via coax. A multiswitch will be required. The DVR STB will encode it's recorded content as QAM (or 8SVB) data stream and send it out via coax to the other STBs.

Just my two cents.

Jeff
 

Indy

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Ilya said:
I would think you need two cables in order to receive two channels of different polarity at the same time.
From the chassis pictures posted I see 2 LNB RF connectors on thew back. So that would mean watch one channel while recording another.
I also notice what appears to be 2 antenna RF connectors on the upper right corner. Or this could be one antenna in and one out.
Glad to see they are going to provide coaxial DD audio out like on the current boxes.
 

Ronald_Jeremy

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madpoet said:
I do question how they would be able to support so many streams from a single hard drive. Being able to archive 2 HD streams and play a 3rd at the same time is just about the througput of a standard IDE drive, which it seems like they are using. You will also be bandwidth-limited in your streams, since I doubt the boxes support GigE.
My Tivo can do it now. But that is SD. If HD is too much, the drives may have a SCSI interface instead of EIDE.
 

Ilya

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That picture confirms the initial reports about four tuners: 2 OTA and 2 satellite tuners. Not sure which combinations will be possible, but I think you can even record 2 programs and watch the third one at the same time (as long as at least one of them is OTA and one comes from the satellite).
 

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