The Positive Spin of the HD Channel delayed
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I'll pay $299 for the privilege of banishing the 921 from my life forever. But I expect to OWN it, not lease it. Sock me with another 2 years of commitment if you have to, but I'm not spending $700 for one since you just rendered my unit obsolete (yes I can receive the existing channels, but 5 Voom channels, ESPN2 HD, Universal HD, AND NYC Broadcast Networks are just too critical to ignore for a year until they get around to giving me a fair upgrade deal)
BobMurdoch said:
My sentiments exactly...except for the HDTV Broadcast Networks since for some strange reason they are leaving the #12 DMA out of the equation.
I think if you recently aquired that 921 you may be in luck, if you were on of the firsts you can expect an upgrade LEASE option IMO.
And as I stated before, IMO there will be NO ANSWERS provided at the next chat. Just a showcase of their new line-up, packages, and equipment.
And as I stated before, IMO there will be NO ANSWERS provided at the next chat. Just a showcase of their new line-up, packages, and equipment.
As long as E* gives existing customers a reasonable and timely upgrade path to the new MPEG4 receivers, the announcement seems quite positive. It appears that existing customers can lease a ViP 211 for about a $100 upfront fee and the 211's are apparently being produced in quantity. If they are not, E* has messed up big time.
The press release said that we could obtain the AT 60 plus plan with SD locals plus HD locals plus all 25 HD channels (which includes HBO HD and Showtime HD)for $54.99. This is about $18.00 more than the present price for the AT60+ plan with SD locals. The bad thing about the announcement was that the ViP 622 would be available in the 1st quarter of this year which sounds like March 31 at the earliest. I have been using a 6000 plus a 510 with my main TV, but really want the 622. The 921 never seemed stable enough for the price and Charlie had already said that all future HD additions would be in MPEG4 about the time the 942 was released. I almost tried to obtain the $249 lease deal for the 942 after the November Tech Chat that said MPEG4 was way in the future and E* was going with Turbo 8PSK, but decided to wait until after the December Charlie Chat when everything changed back to MPEG4. However, if I lease the ViP 211 now, I will not be eligible to lease a ViP 622 until next year according to the way the lease rules were explained to me - only 1 new lease per year. Since I had leased a 510 last year, I was not eligible to lease a 411 or 211 or 942 until this year. E* should give us the same deal as D* is offering to existing customers for the MPEG4 receiver - $199 purchase price with a $200 rebate. Then I could get a MPEG4 receiver now for free and attempt to lease a 622 when they come out.
The press release said that we could obtain the AT 60 plus plan with SD locals plus HD locals plus all 25 HD channels (which includes HBO HD and Showtime HD)for $54.99. This is about $18.00 more than the present price for the AT60+ plan with SD locals. The bad thing about the announcement was that the ViP 622 would be available in the 1st quarter of this year which sounds like March 31 at the earliest. I have been using a 6000 plus a 510 with my main TV, but really want the 622. The 921 never seemed stable enough for the price and Charlie had already said that all future HD additions would be in MPEG4 about the time the 942 was released. I almost tried to obtain the $249 lease deal for the 942 after the November Tech Chat that said MPEG4 was way in the future and E* was going with Turbo 8PSK, but decided to wait until after the December Charlie Chat when everything changed back to MPEG4. However, if I lease the ViP 211 now, I will not be eligible to lease a ViP 622 until next year according to the way the lease rules were explained to me - only 1 new lease per year. Since I had leased a 510 last year, I was not eligible to lease a 411 or 211 or 942 until this year. E* should give us the same deal as D* is offering to existing customers for the MPEG4 receiver - $199 purchase price with a $200 rebate. Then I could get a MPEG4 receiver now for free and attempt to lease a 622 when they come out.
Gee, whats going to be next, the MPEG-8 receiver? How long do you think this MPEG-4 technology is going to last?
The path to upgrade to MPEG4 for existing E* customers maybe easier http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=51507
I pay $200 a month in my subscription fees. As such, I expect to be treated like a VIP when they figure out who should get the first batch of vip622s.
We are the early adopters who help spread the word about HD and convince others to join.
WE are the ones he should be courting first. Not even mentioning existing subscribers was a slap in the face. And "the cost of an installation" is reasonable, but we want it sooner rather than later. IF you don't have equipment ready on Feb. 1st, then give us at least ESPN2 and the three missing broadcast networks in Mpeg2 to hold us over until football season and the Olympics are over.
We are the early adopters who help spread the word about HD and convince others to join.
WE are the ones he should be courting first. Not even mentioning existing subscribers was a slap in the face. And "the cost of an installation" is reasonable, but we want it sooner rather than later. IF you don't have equipment ready on Feb. 1st, then give us at least ESPN2 and the three missing broadcast networks in Mpeg2 to hold us over until football season and the Olympics are over.
Bob, did you READ the Dish news release yesterday. It was posted all over the place. It does specifically say "convenient upgrade path for existing customers". Here's a link to the release on the Dish website:BobMurdoch said:
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=68854&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=801106&highlight=
The only real problem i've seen is that they seem to want to get MPEG-4 boxes to NEW customers before Existing, and that's what's driving ALL of this anger you're seeing. That's backwards, existing subs should get precedent over new subs. They most likely pay more, and have for quite some time. Show some loyalty...
mdonnelly said:
All I see is a price for new lease customers and no mention of existing customers.
I probably would not have gotten as upset as I did if we hadn't been expecting the channels to go live 5pm yesterday based on numerous reports (Scott included).
So instead of a post-Christmas day present, I'm greeted with a wonderful slate of channels that I may or may not be able to see by NEXT Christmas, if they have a product rollout like the 921 had last time...........
Purogamer said:
We all remember how the 522s were only available to new customers. Other new HD PVRs were available for sale at introduction to existing users but at exorbitant prices ($600-$1000). I paid $1000 for a machine and I haven't heard word one about those like me who paid a 500% premium for a box to record HD channels and now have to miss the NYC broadcast networks, ESPN2, Universal HD, and new Voom channels that others will be receiving.
I like to keep optimistic about this and I know the history you are talking about existing subscribers and E* but I think this time E* will make it work for existing subscribers. The difference this time is that the current box will not work with the new channels. I like to think positive and remain positive about it. BTW, 25 days left til Feb 1 and counting.
People do not realize how valuable satellite space is to Dish/DIRECTV. These DBS frequencies are fixed by international treaty and despite years of work they have not been expanded (i.e. closer spacing).
It is cheaper for Dish/DIRECTV to give everyone a MPEG-4 box than to build and launch more powerful satellites with more spots to maximize the use of the transponders they have. E10 probably costs on the order of 200-300 million, this is what Dish is investing to cover 10 of their 50 transponders.
Sure, they would like to have customers pay for their upgrades, but they know it would not happen. So, they are going to try to convert as many as fast as possible. I am talking about standard definition customers too. I would not be surprised to see upgrades of standard definition to MPEG-4 by the end of the year. I think they will start offering all big customers MPEG-4 boxes to start switching out. All new customers will have no choice but to get the new boxes. I suspect the movie channels will convert. This is really starting to build momentum now that Dish/DIRECTV realize they can get 1.5-2x the channels by switching every box over. They will take a few years to do it since it costs some $$ to do it, but it costs less to convert every set top box to MPEG-4 than to buy TP space that is not for sale (i.e. how many billions did Dish offer for DIRECTV).
It is cheaper for Dish/DIRECTV to give everyone a MPEG-4 box than to build and launch more powerful satellites with more spots to maximize the use of the transponders they have. E10 probably costs on the order of 200-300 million, this is what Dish is investing to cover 10 of their 50 transponders.
Sure, they would like to have customers pay for their upgrades, but they know it would not happen. So, they are going to try to convert as many as fast as possible. I am talking about standard definition customers too. I would not be surprised to see upgrades of standard definition to MPEG-4 by the end of the year. I think they will start offering all big customers MPEG-4 boxes to start switching out. All new customers will have no choice but to get the new boxes. I suspect the movie channels will convert. This is really starting to build momentum now that Dish/DIRECTV realize they can get 1.5-2x the channels by switching every box over. They will take a few years to do it since it costs some $$ to do it, but it costs less to convert every set top box to MPEG-4 than to buy TP space that is not for sale (i.e. how many billions did Dish offer for DIRECTV).
Forget the cost for a second. Assuming 12 million subscribers and an average of two per home (some have one, I've got five, I'm guessing at 2 as an average), they've got to build 24 million receivers this year? I don't think they have the capability of even doing that.....
I believe scott has said at some point that E* has a warehouse full of something, but I don't remember what...
It will be a progression just like Cable did when they started switching analog boxes for digital boxes. This is stuff is going to take time. I will say to everyone not to make a haste decision based on the information coming from CES yet. Wait until Feb 1st. I am sure that we will have newer information by then and will have a better understanding of what each us needs to do.
I always find it interesting when a new product, which is better, begins to come into market reality. Everyone wants it, but we do not like the hardship that it brings. A new 622 in our house means leaving behind our 942's, 921's, 6000's, and 811's.
All of us remember when HD first came on the scene as a new technology. Everyone wanted a new HDTV, but the cost of the new technology was too expensive. People complained, especially those that had just purchased new and quite expensive large screen rear projection SD tv's. They felt lied to and short changed by Sony and Mitsubishi in particular.
Now, here we are a few years later HD tv is now an accepted technology that people are willing to pay for. And though we stagger when we see the prices of the really large display plasmas and LCD's, the technology has been accepted, and we don't look at their existence as being a hard thing to accept.
I believe this transition to the new MPEG4 boxes is an instance of the same type of hardship in the hands of what is good for the consumer in the long run.
One other thing. I recently attended a leadership training seminar on how people deal with Change. I learned that all of us like advancements and progress, but what we don't like is the feeling of loss for what we once had. Until recently, those of us with the MPEG2 HD receivers had the best out there. We paid for this luxury and the loss of having the best is HARD. And if we don't feel like we are being brought along in the process of this change, we become ANGRY!
I believe that Dish Network understands that we have invested a great deal of our hard earned money on MPEG2 technology. And I also believe they value us for doing so. Therefore it would not be in their best interest to short change us in this transition. Good business sense, no, even average business sense would not allow for it.
Enjoy the ride guys.
: MPEG4 is a good thing, even though the transition is hard
All of us remember when HD first came on the scene as a new technology. Everyone wanted a new HDTV, but the cost of the new technology was too expensive. People complained, especially those that had just purchased new and quite expensive large screen rear projection SD tv's. They felt lied to and short changed by Sony and Mitsubishi in particular.
Now, here we are a few years later HD tv is now an accepted technology that people are willing to pay for. And though we stagger when we see the prices of the really large display plasmas and LCD's, the technology has been accepted, and we don't look at their existence as being a hard thing to accept.
I believe this transition to the new MPEG4 boxes is an instance of the same type of hardship in the hands of what is good for the consumer in the long run.
One other thing. I recently attended a leadership training seminar on how people deal with Change. I learned that all of us like advancements and progress, but what we don't like is the feeling of loss for what we once had. Until recently, those of us with the MPEG2 HD receivers had the best out there. We paid for this luxury and the loss of having the best is HARD. And if we don't feel like we are being brought along in the process of this change, we become ANGRY!
I believe that Dish Network understands that we have invested a great deal of our hard earned money on MPEG2 technology. And I also believe they value us for doing so. Therefore it would not be in their best interest to short change us in this transition. Good business sense, no, even average business sense would not allow for it.
Enjoy the ride guys.
: MPEG4 is a good thing, even though the transition is hard
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Spike, I regard my 811 receiver as a tool. That tool has been satisfactory for the last 2 years, and I wouldn't think about replacing it for another tool unless it broke or the environment changed. Well, the environment has changed, because E* has changed it for us. It's up to E* now to put the proper tool into our hands.
