Theory- Why only some channels in Turbo?

[M Sparks]

I was thinking about why only some channels are being made available to Turbo packages and not others. I really don't think it's the usual Cheap Charlie problem...I believe it's the channels themselves. Here's why.

If you read these boards, you will see a lot of talk about how "As soon as I can get Comedy Central HD (or whatever), I'll switch to Turbo."

Look at what Viacom channels were made available...Comedy, Spike, and CMT. All essentially "standalone" channels...they don't have "sister" channels (except CMT, but DISH doesn't carry it's sister anyway.)

If some guy was just holding out for Spike, then he's still watching Spike when he switches to Turbo. However, if a family has kids who demanded Nick, and they switch to Turbo, that family is now no longer watching Noggin, NickToons, The N, ect.

Bottom line...Viacom (and just about every other provider) loses subscriber dollars with everyone that switches to Turbo. I expect they negotiate higher fees for the Turbo packages to offset this, but no matter what, they probably lose $$$.

But the loss of money AND potential viewers may be too much for them. They want MTV fans watching both MTV AND MTV2.

As far as Fox goes, they may have been simply looking at the overall picture...Even if FX and Speed had been added, Turbo subscribers don't pay for Fox Soccer, Fox Reality, Fox Movies, and probably other Fox channels I'm not remembering.

There's a lot of talk about how DISH doesn't want people to switch. If that were the case, they wouldn't offer it, or they would have kept it for new customers only. Turbo is so overpriced, they probably make a much higher profit.

DISH may screw up a lot of things, but I really believe that the channels themselves are the ones screwing up the Turbo packages. I think DISH started with the best intentions, but the other companies refuse to play ball. Of course, if enough people subscribe to Turbo anyway, then they will have to get with the program, because they'll be losing subscribers for ALL their channels.

Remember when the rumor went around that "They want to see how popular Turbo is before adding Fox News"? This may very well be true...but it may be FOX that was waiting to see how popular.

 

[Hemi 6.1]

I got one theory
E* knows you want these channels ,so He's making you pay for them.
Thats Business.
Same reason channels in the top 250 pack aren't in the top 100 pack.

 

[Laddyboy]

Just a note. The N is not in the same tier as the other Viacoms. It's a Silver and above channel. Most of the others are Bronze and above. Your main point may very well be and probably is correct though. Unfortunately, all the Turbo subs switching back to ClassicHD packages to get Nick, et. al. isn't going to help the cause. Keep the Turbo and go watch them on demand at the MTV and Nick sites.

 

[bebop]

Isn't it because they don't have the SD version of that channel available to those tiers, so they aren't carrying the HD either?

 

[GaryPen]

Isn't it because they don't have the SD version of that channel available to those tiers, so they aren't carrying the HD either?

I don't understand that comment as it relates to the TurboHD tiers. Theoretically, they don't have any SD channels on TurboHD packages.

 

[kstuart]

I got one theory
E* knows you want these channels ,so He's making you pay for them.
Thats Business.
Same reason channels in the top 250 pack aren't in the top 100 pack.

Uh, the most popular channels are in the Top 100 pack, not the other way around.

ESPN
ESPN2
NICK
USA
TNT
MTV
CNN
E!

etc. etc.

The Top 250 has niche channels like History International, Tennis, Style.

 

[Sammy033]

It's an interesting idea and it wouldnt surprise me. If so, then probably the simple explanation is that the industry as whole (providers and broadcasters) knew the changeover to HD in the long run would cut into profits for a significant amount of time. There was always going to be a point when a certain number of people would want to go HD-only... meaning for example a fewer number of inexpensive channels with comparatively higher advertising rates. Things IMHO like BET-J make up for that but it is small potatoes.

Of course businesses dont like losing their profits so this is one of those times when they are being dragged kicking and screaming where the people want to go. So I guess yes, Viacom does not want small HD-only packages and in this case its probably a battle on this very issue instead of some technical problem. I do wonder however if this was an issue resolved on the contract signed before, or maybe there was a clause allowing renegotiation under certain conditions.

Anyways, just a hypothetical idea.

 

[jerryez]

I agree that the channel providers have the final say on what packages their channels are in. Dish is the on one with a HD only packa nd the providers do not like it.

 

[JEFFinINDY]

Dish doesn't even show you the non-Turbo HD packages on their site. Try to find a channel listing for BronzeHD or GoldHD. I can't.

Someone new to Dish looking for a certain channel like Fox News HD or Spike HD would think Dish doesn't carry it in any package.

 

[johnch]

It Doesn't matter Why--They Left Turbo users hanging

You reasoning might very well be correct but the reality is that those of us who switched to the Turbo Packages had an implied and in some cases a real guarantee that we would get any new HD channels added. Well I for one don't like to be taken down the garden path. I was waiting for the Nick switch and in fact one of the reasons I switched was because Nick was on he list of HD channels that was supposed to be offered late last year.

This company is still making money even though it is loosing customers. That should tell you that Charlie and the board are now not interested in us but in only their bottom line. I understand that but the customer is the reason they are making money. If they turn aside their comittment to us like the big corporations did to their workers the last 9 years then untimately Dish will not make money on diminishing customer base.

The customer makes the company and not the other way around.

Just My Two Cents

JC

 

[TheKrell]

Bottom line...Viacom (and just about every other provider) loses subscriber dollars with everyone that switches to Turbo. I expect they negotiate higher fees for the Turbo packages to offset this, but no matter what, they probably lose $$$.

I like your reasoning. This makes a lot of sense.

If true, there's hope for the future when all providers provide all (or almost all) of their channels in HD. Then, an HD-only package won't be so threatening.

 

[skierrob]

I would like to know where people got a real guarantee that Dish would add all new nonpremium channels to the Turbo HD packages. I do not see that guarantee in any written communications and do not remember any Charlie Chat where it was said.

I also doubt that anyone was specifically told that by a CSR either. Instead, a CSR may have said that the Tubo HD packages CURRENTLY get all the HD versions of all channels in the corresponding tier. Dish CSRs are the LAST people to know anything. So how could they be offering guarantees? Also remember that, per your contract, programming changes can be made to ANY package at ANY time for ANY reason and you have to live with it.

I think what really happened is that a lot of people just believed the rumors that were being made on satelliteguys.us by other forum members and are acting based on what they read on these forums and not based on what Dish Network actually said or did. A lot of forum members started to say that Turbo HD customers would get every channel, so it became a wide belief with no basis in reality.

The fact is that Dish does not always decide what channels to carry. The providers determine what Dish can carry, and for what price. If I were Viacom, I would be scared to death of Turbo HD because it means that people getting Nick HD would never get Noggin, Nick Toons and my other Nick channels. That means that I, as Viacom, would never get advertising dollars for Nick Toons, Noggin, etc. from Dish network Turbo HD customers.

Therefore, it is very, very likely that Viacom made the demand that Dish not give Nick HD to Turbo HD customers. But Dish did manage to negotiate Turbo HD customers to get Comedy Central HD.

If anyone can prove me wrong, let me know. Show me a written document or video from Charlie saying that Turbo HD customers would ALWAYS get ALL new HD channels in the future that corresponded to the standard def tiers. Then I will be mad at Charlie. Until then, I can not be mad at him.

Finally, in terms of Dish Network not showing the HD channels that Classic plus HD customers get, I agree that sucks. But I think it is because Dish cannot seem to put a website together or do any type of marketing well. The Turbo HD web pages were created when the package started. At that time, the offerings were the same as the classic plus HD channels. And I think that Dish just hasnt gotten their act together to modify the pages to actually show the differences now. That is bad communication to customers, but not any guarantee that we were supposed to get anything.

Do I think Turbo customers got screwed with large bill increases? Yup! But, if those customers do not like their increases, they can switch to a classic plus HD package or go to DirecTV. Of course, last time I checked, DirecTV did not even OFFER an HD only package. Right?

 

[JFaber99]

If anyone can prove me wrong, let me know. Show me a written document or video from Charlie saying that Turbo HD customers would ALWAYS get ALL new HD channels in the future that corresponded to the standard def tiers. Then I will be mad at Charlie. Until then, I can not be mad at him.

I don't think any business is going to go out on a limb and tell customers they are ALWAYS going to get something in the future. Especially not in writing.

But you can go to Dish Network website and read the definitions of what the Turbo Packages are and see why some customers assumed they would get the HD channels in the equivalent Classic tier.

Here is the link: http://www.dishnetwork.com/downloads/pdf/whats_on_dish/programming_guides/OnlineChannelLineUp.pdf

I for one like the HD-Only thing. Hopefully Dish is working hard to get this current problem fixed.

 

[bebop]

Theoretically, they don't have any SD channels on TurboHD packages.

I don't have Turbo so I don't know the exacts, but I assume they give you the SD version as well as the HD. I assume that because I have the original HD only package, and I get more SD channels than HD with that package (and most all HD's I get the SD version). I'll count them some time and let you know. But the count is 50HD (not counting VOD, PPV, Premiums, Ordering channels, locals)

EDIT: Looks like HD Absolute has about 19 HD Channels without corresponding SD's (rough count estimate). And there are about 80-100 SD channels available (not counting stuff you have to pay extra for)

 

[Laddyboy]

I don't have Turbo so I don't know the exacts, but I assume they give you the SD version as well as the HD. I assume that because I have the original HD only package, and I get more SD channels than HD with that package. I'll count them some time and let you know. But the count is 50HD (not counting VOD, PPV, Premiums, Ordering channels, locals)

For most HDs you get the SD version if there is one. There are some HD channels where you only get the HD version with no SD counterpart: e.g., ABC FAM, DisneyEast, ESPN News. The public interest channels and other pay-to-carry are all SD I think.

 

[Kevinw]

If you read these boards, you will see a lot of talk about how "As soon as I can get Comedy Central HD (or whatever), I'll switch to Turbo."

.......

If some guy was just holding out for Spike, then he's still watching Spike when he switches to Turbo. However, if a family has kids who demanded Nick, and they switch to Turbo, that family is now no longer watching Noggin, NickToons, The N, ect.

I agree with your theory because that is exactly was waiting for. My kids want Spike and Nick and that is the only reason I had not switched.

 

[CoreyC]

If this is the case, the resolution is simple. Dish needs to negotiate what SD channels that the networks wanted added, and add them to the turbo subs as free 'bonus' channels.

 

[tkyoshi]

If this is the case, the resolution is simple. Dish needs to negotiate what SD channels that the networks wanted added, and add them to the turbo subs as free 'bonus' channels.

On the flip side I think they may want to tread lightly in this area. If they negotiatiate SD carriage in Turbo, then maybe other content providers might start to impose the same conditions. In the end it could end up basically back to Classic Bronze.

Now of course I want the missing channels added, i'm upset about that too but just saying while you do have a potential solution to this issue, it could potentially open a can of worms as well.

 

[Widescreen]

Dish doesn't even show you the non-Turbo HD packages on their site. Try to find a channel listing for BronzeHD or GoldHD. I can't.

Someone new to Dish looking for a certain channel like Fox News HD or Spike HD would think Dish doesn't carry it in any package.

DISH Network - America's Top Packages Plus Turbo HD Programming - 1.888.825.2557

It's there, but yeah, it's not exactly front and center anymore. They used to have links to the GoldHD, etc on the Classic packages page. Apparently that's not the case anymore.

 

[BigTetto]

The "M Sparks Theory" may also explain why there aren't any other providers offering HD Only service...