Tribune Broadcasting Company Blacks Out DISH Customers in 33 Markets;

[Tampa8]

.... While some can interpret as Charlie and Dish had from day one as offering those who may not want LIL a savings in their bill. However, the vast majority of consumers seem to interpret the LIL add on pricing as Dish, or whatever company, as forcing them to pay extra for LIL when it ought to be included in the standard package price. Cable cos and DirecTV would crow, "Local Channels included" in their ads, omitting that what was really happening was that they were just increasing the total price to include the LIL add on price. This put Dish at a competitive disadvantage as far as consumer attitudes who viewed Dish the worse value because if one wanted their LIL's they would have to pay "extra," and that notion does not sit well with most consumers. So, Dish dropped the LIL add on pricing and had to offer packages with LIL's included, of course, not for free but with appropriate pricing of the add on cost included in the final package price. ......

I had forgotten about that and that is indeed why DISH also added them to the package at that time.

 

[Blackhawks]

I thank Dish for the Antenna, and I'll use it as a paper weight

 

[Tampa8]

So for less price than the HD option, you can get Welcome Pack which includes more channels than the "lifeline" service. I fail to see where the "hypocrisy" is.

Charter in Ct charges about $27 and $20 installation. The FCC has allowed Cable to scramble locals along with everything else and require a receiver. There was a period of time Cable could not charge for the receiver for lifeline accounts but that I believe has come to an end. They can now charge for a receiver (or cable card) to get the package. The last I saw Charter was charging a total of $19 for the first DVR receiver with the Lifeline account. Keep in mind DISH does not charge for the first receiver, but there would be a DVR fee if the receiver is a DVR. So it would appear you get more channels likely for a lesser charge with DISH.

 

[sam_gordon]

Charter in Ct charges about $27 and $20 installation. The FCC has allowed Cable to scramble locals along with everything else and require a receiver. There was a period of time Cable could not charge for the receiver for lifeline accounts but that I believe has come to an end. They can now charge for a receiver (or cable card) to get the package. The last I saw Charter was charging a total of $19 for the first DVR receiver with the Lifeline account. Keep in mind DISH does not charge for the first receiver, but there would be a DVR fee if the receiver is a DVR. So it would appear you get more channels likely for a lesser charge with DISH.

Time Warner (in my area at least) does not require a receiver or cable card. Many channels (including locals, but not ESPN, et al) are carried in the clear as QAM channels.

 

[dare2be]

Time Warner (in my area at least) does not require a receiver or cable card. Many channels (including locals, but not ESPN, et al) are carried in the clear as QAM channels.

That is definitely the exception and not the rule. Yours is one of the last holdouts. On another support forum for a QAM-tuner DVD recorder, I watched as people reported clear-QAM dropping like flies over the last few years.

 

[sam_gordon]

That is definitely the exception and not the rule. Yours is one of the last holdouts. On another support forum for a QAM-tuner DVD recorder, I watched as people reported clear-QAM dropping like flies over the last few years.

oh lord, probably 75% of our business uses clear-QAM so workers can watch TV at their desks.

 

[osu1991]

That is definitely the exception and not the rule. Yours is one of the last holdouts. On another support forum for a QAM-tuner DVD recorder, I watched as people reported clear-QAM dropping like flies over the last few years.

oh lord, probably 75% of our business uses clear-QAM so workers can watch TV at their desks.

Cox will be all digital with no clear qam by Q2 2017. They are almost done now. Tulsa is all digital. OKC and most other Cities will be by the end of the year. I have one tv using the clear qam in our Vegas condo. Ill have to put another Tivo mini on it by next spring. Las Vegas and Santa Barbara will be the last ones to go all digital for Cox.

edit: Cox conversion timeline
https://www.cox.com/aboutus/policies/all-digital-plans.html

 

[pattykay]

So for less price than the HD option, you can get Welcome Pack which includes more channels than the "lifeline" service. I fail to see where the "hypocrisy" is.

HobbyTalk never said "hypocrisy." I did. My point is as follows:

The national channels in Welcome Pack must be costing Dish something, so a Locals Only package should be that much cheaper. Also, Lifeline cable packages include subchannels, low-powered stations, and other local channels that Dish does not carry, so a Dish Local package should be that much cheaper. Furthermore, when I had a Lifeline cable package, the package included WGN America while Welcome Pack did not, so why is Dish the one complaining about Tribune's forced bundling?

 

[dare2be]

HobbyTalk never said "hypocrisy." I did. My point is as follows:

The national channels in Welcome Pack must be costing Dish something, so a Locals Only package should be that much cheaper. Also, Lifeline cable packages include subchannels, low-powered stations, and other local channels that Dish does not carry, so a Dish Local package should be that much cheaper. Furthermore, when I had a Lifeline cable package, the package included WGN America while Welcome Pack did not, so why is Dish the one complaining about Tribune's forced bundling?

As all the "base" packages across most if not all providers cost around the same, it stands to reason that fixed operating costs factor into the pricing. So instead of filling a lifeline or base package with subchannels that satellite does not have access to, they fill with other low-cost channels that will appear to show value to the consumer. Let's say the break even cost for just a locals-only package (with only a subset of available locals that satellite has), including fixed subscriber costs, is $15, or for $5 more you get a smattering of other additional channels that seems to justify the cost. What would you choose? Most would scream that $15 for half the available locals in a market is highway robbery.

 

[pattykay]

As all the "base" packages across most if not all providers cost around the same, it stands to reason that fixed operating costs factor into the pricing. So instead of filling a lifeline or base package with subchannels that satellite does not have access to, they fill with other low-cost channels that will appear to show value to the consumer. Let's say the break even cost for just a locals-only package (with only a subset of available locals that satellite has), including fixed subscriber costs, is $15, or for $5 more you get a smattering of other additional channels that seems to justify the cost. What would you choose? Most would scream that $15 for half the available locals in a market is highway robbery.

Agreed. I just think that the Locals Only should be an option for those who want to save the $5. I am in no way, shape, or form advocating eliminating Welcome Pack as an option.

 

[dare2be]

Ok, I agree with having that option...more choice for the consumer is always good. Yet I still see it as a stretch to call cries of forced bundling hypocritical. The two situations aren't very similar. If Dish or anyone had the option to offer channels ala carte, then you would have a point.

 

[RONZ]

oh lord, probably 75% of our business uses clear-QAM so workers can watch TV at their desks.

Comcast in southern Michigan along with Charter in upper Michigan is 100% QAM with no clear signals. Both companies changed over about Two years ago Both systems charge 10 dollars for additional boxes. But the first one is included in the subscription

 

[KAB]

IT'S OVER, at least our two channels in Indy!!!

EDIT: MY wife got the channels confused, I guess. It's not!

Sorry!

 

[Hall]

Remember, there are numerous channels that pay to be carried vs the other way around. That certainly offsets some of the 'fixed' costs.

 

[HobbyTalk]

HobbyTalk never said "hypocrisy." I did. My point is as follows:

The national channels in Welcome Pack must be costing Dish something, so a Locals Only package should be that much cheaper. Also, Lifeline cable packages include subchannels, low-powered stations, and other local channels that Dish does not carry, so a Dish Local package should be that much cheaper. Furthermore, when I had a Lifeline cable package, the package included WGN America while Welcome Pack did not, so why is Dish the one complaining about Tribune's forced bundling?

Consider the largest blocks in the Welcome Package is religious channels, shopping networks and news. My understanding is the religious channels are free and the shopping channels pay to be carried. The religious channels allow them to pump up the channel count at no cost. Carrying the shopping channels might actually reduce the cost of the package allowing channels like HGTV, TWC, TBS, TLC & WE at a price that is under $20.

None of us know what agreements the cable companies have with the channels. My guess is that the Welcome Packs (or Lifeline) subscriptions are a very low percentage of overall subscribers. For all we know it may be less expensive for them to carry the sub-channels on all programming tiers than to not offer it on the Lifeline tier or some of the channels are "must carry". It is impossible to make a knowledgeable statement without knowing all the facts. IMHO everything I've read so far is just personal opinion without basis is fact.

Just looked and Comcast Limited Basic includes:

• Local broadcast stations (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, PBS, etc.)
• Local government channels
• Education channels

This is for about $3 less than Dish's Welcome pack that includes many more channels. I guess Dish could eliminate about 25 of their channels in the Welcome Pack and cut the price by $3. Which is the better value is up to the customer.

 

[reddice]

QVC and HSN can be streamed in HD for free on the Roku and Apple TV so I would not care if Dish drops there SD channels.

 

[Darin1234]

Consider the largest blocks in the Welcome Package is religious channels, shopping networks and news. My understanding is the religious channels are free and the shopping channels pay to be carried. The religious channels allow them to pump up the channel count at no cost.

I bet the religious channels pay too. There are plenty of fledgling channels out there that would love to be on a big provider like dish or directv (like national versions of the digital sub channels) so they could get more exposure and direct response $$. If they could just go on for free they'd be on there. Dish and direct see their bandwidth as more valuable than a higher channel count. I think newsmax wanted to stop paying dish and be on for free but they took the channel down.

 

[Bruce]

Comcast in southern Michigan along with Charter in upper Michigan is 100% QAM with no clear signals. Both companies changed over about Two years ago Both systems charge 10 dollars for additional boxes. But the first one is included in the subscription

Comcast has less expensive Boxes, they have the SD and HD DTA boxes, they are $3.99 a month.

Also, their Roku app is in test mode were you can get the channels you subscribe to via the Roku with no box fees.

 

[RONZ]

Comcast has less expensive Boxes, they have the SD and HD DTA boxes, they are $3.99 a month.

Also, their Roku app is in test mode were you can get the channels you subscribe to via the Roku with no box fees.

The 3.99 box would work for the lifeline programming but will not for regular packages. The box will not give you all of the channels It stop way short This is why Comcast only offers it on additional outlets not requiring all of you subscribe channels.

I am not sure but based on what Comcast states the 10.00 box charge is paid directly to Motorola. The reason why I say this is because when they tried to give me a free box for a year they had trouble turning it on. They ended up giving me a ten dollar credit instead. Then it worked

 

[Bruce]

The 3.99 box would work for the lifeline programming but will not for regular packages. The box will not give you all of the channels It stop way short This is why Comcast only offers it on additional outlets not requiring all of you subscribe channels.

I have one ( HDMI DTA Box) in my basement, we get every channel on it that we subscribe to (Preferred Pkg), AMC, FX, Big Ten, Fox Sports Detroit, ESPN, Spike, etc, etc and in HD, it is a good basic single tuner box, but once Comcast activates the Roku app it will be going back.