Tripod vs Chimney mount

navychop

navychop

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I am about to mount an OTA antenna on my roof, with a rotor and probably a 5 foot pole. Dish will be out a few days later to place 2 dishes- 110/119 & 61.5. I expect the dishes will be roof mounted. The OTA will likely be mounted on a tripod at the peak.

However, I am considering a chimney mount. Is either way considered more secure? I have some reluctance to use the chimney for two reasons: 1, the bricks are spalling a bit, and 2, the coax from a chimney mount would need to go "over the edge" and into a soffett. The peak mount allows for coax to enter thru a ridge line vent- neater, less visible.

Searching turned up a few comments, such as roof mounts for dishes thru asphalt don't require caulking as they will be self sealing. But no information as to the pros or cons of each approach. And if the chimney mount is better, should I try for putting the OTA and both dishes on it?
 
jscud

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navychop said:
I am about to mount an OTA antenna on my roof, with a rotor and probably a 5 foot pole. Dish will be out a few days later to place 2 dishes- 110/119 & 61.5. I expect the dishes will be roof mounted. The OTA will likely be mounted on a tripod at the peak.

However, I am considering a chimney mount. Is either way considered more secure? I have some reluctance to use the chimney for two reasons: 1, the bricks are spalling a bit, and 2, the coax from a chimney mount would need to go "over the edge" and into a soffett. The peak mount allows for coax to enter thru a ridge line vent- neater, less visible.

Searching turned up a few comments, such as roof mounts for dishes thru asphalt don't require caulking as they will be self sealing. But no information as to the pros or cons of each approach. And if the chimney mount is better, should I try for putting the OTA and both dishes on it?

Go with the tripod. Aside from inviting physical damage to your bricks and mortar with a chimney mount, the gases coming out of the flue can corrode the connectors and aluminum elements of the antenna. This will shorten the life of your antenna and over time your signal will degrade. This is 'old school' knowledge from the days before cable and satellite.

John
 
Rick0725

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There are 6 points of attachment on a tripod. They come with asphalt pads which are self sealing once applied and the tripod tightened down.

A tripod mount will always be more stable then a chimney mount. I never recommend nor will I ever install a chimney mount.
 
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navychop

navychop

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Thanks to all. I will certainly go with the tripod and stay well clear of the chimney, even though it will be little used (gas logs). I will likely run 2x4s between the rafters to ensure a solid base for the tripod to screw into.

Ralfyguy- Well, that certainly looks secure. But on the house soon to be mine, that would face the wrong way for sat signals, and I don't have much overhang. Besides, I think I'd hear the beating of drums as the neighbors gathered for the kill.
 
Rick0725

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navychop


if you can get away with it at your home...you can go low profile...you do not have to use a full 5' length off the rotor and tripod. To calm the families down I cut a few feet off of each to have it aim closer to the roof...it then becomes less noticeable from the road.

Also install where reception is best and coax run is the least...so many times owners want the antenna at the back of the home so it is not as noticeable and reception is not always best there.
 
navychop

navychop

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OH, it's not the OTA antenna that would be a problem- lot's of them in this neighborhood (built late 60s). The rather large bracing in ralfyguy's picture might be a bit "off putting." Low WAF in any event.

The best LOS for sat is roof peak, rear. I'll probably put the OTA antenna near there, but yes, I'll probably tripod it without the rotor and move it around to ensure it doesn't go in a dead spot. Most stations transmit about 15 miles away from me, but one is about 40 miles away.
 
Rick0725

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Smiling...no WAF at my house...see picture...the hd8200p is towards the back.

may take the big dish down this summer...do not use it much anymore...painted the pole brown to make it look like a tree...haha...A small WAF touch.
 

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navychop

navychop

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to put an end to it

So I plan to pull in several stations 15 miles away, and a couple 40 miles away, plus FM. I need VHF as well, since after transition channels 7, 9 & 11 will move their ATSC signals from the UHF band back to the noted VHF channels. From comments in the other threads, I have eliminated the 4221/4228 due to questions about hi-VHF reception. That narrows it down to the CM 3671, 3678 and Winegard 8200P.

Since the stations 15 miles away might be overpowered by a pre-amp for the stations 40 miles away, I decided to drop consideration of the CM3678 and use one of the others without a pre-amp. Their larger size might help more with 40 mile plus reception. And since the 8200 costs about $70 more than the 3671, plus has shipping estimates ranging from $70 to $170, as opposed to the 3671's $27 S&H, the CM3671 it is.

So I'll get a tripod or eave mount (decided ralfyguy's rig didn't look so bad after all), two 5' masts (probably only use one) and CM9521 rotor. Plus the grounding rod and wires/cables.

Before I finally pull the trigger on this, is there any benefit to the eave mount over the tripod, or vice versa? Other than avoiding another roof penetration? And have I overlooked anything?

Thanks to all for your help.
 
Rick0725

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I installed mine on the side because the roof needed to be repaired in a couple years.

with a larger antenna...there will be more wind load. if you mount on the side you may want to brace it ridgedly. I use metal conduit pound the ends with a hammer attach to the mast just below the rotor angled back and attached to the roof stud.

gives it a ton of support...plus something sturdy to lean against if you are tinkering up there.

see avatar

the cm 3671 will work real good for you...if you feel you need amplification...would suggest the winegard hdp269...I use one them now in place of the distribution amp and in the suburban setting less than 35 miles from towers...and it works real good...was never able to use an amp at the home without overload till this amp came out...and have been using them ever since...will not overload the tuner.

its too bad winegard doesnt make the 8200p antenna ups-able...the frt kills ya...and it is such a well built /good performing antenna.
 
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Rick0725 said:
...with a larger antenna...there will be more wind load. if you mount on the side you may want to brace it ridgedly. I use metal conduit pound the ends with a hammer attach to the mast just below the rotor angled back and attached to the roof stud....gives it a ton of support...plus something sturdy to lean against if you are tinkering up there....
WOW! I thought I was the ONLY one who ever did that! Seemed pretty hokey at the time I installed it and others thought it was a stupid idea, but my choices were limited....

I mounted my system to the edge of my roof near the peak. Two 10' poles extend from the ground to about 5' above the roof. They are attached to the roof edge with two conventional brackets spaced about 6" apart vertically on a chunk of pressure-treated and painted 2x10 that I angled to match the roof and lag-bolted onto the soffet. The rotator is on the top of that pole and has another 5' pole that rotates. I have two all-band antennas on that system, one on the fixed portion and one on the rotating part (separated by about 6' total to minimize interaction). The rotating one has a pre-amp on its boom. In total this has a LOT of weight and, worse, wind loading, so to secure it I used two guy wires 180 deg. apart laterally to the same roof edge and a single piece of conduit with two flattened and bent ends parallel to the ridgeline. That conduit is clamped to the fixed mast just below the rotator along with the guy wires, and its other end is lag-bolted into a roof stud. I slid that end under a shingle and slapped a bunch of tar on it that I touch-up every few years. After 25 years that system is still working as well as it ever did (which, sadly, is only fair on most channels) with no signs of any roof leaks.

I'm getting the roof replaced this year, so I may make some changes after that, not sure yet. My overall plan is to mount a new system (probably UHF only, TBD) in a different location for the new digitals in my area. The existing system can still pull-in a few analogs for now, and it also gets the only digital I'm currently receiving (3 subs, one HD) on ch 15...
 
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navychop

navychop

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rick0725:
I gather from your description and avatar that your side mounted antenna has 2 legs made out of the conduit. So my impression that the tripod will be stronger is accurate. So it will be.

I'll keep that pre-amp in mind- but I don't want to lose the nearby stations. Any diff between that and the 7777? I will likely use a distro amp also, as I plan to feed 5 or 6 locations.
 
Rick0725

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navychop said:
rick0725:
I gather from your description and avatar that your side mounted antenna has 2 legs made out of the conduit. So my impression that the tripod will be stronger is accurate. So it will be.

I'll keep that pre-amp in mind- but I don't want to lose the nearby stations. Any diff between that and the 7777? I will likely use a distro amp also, as I plan to feed 5 or 6 locations.


The winegard preamp HDP 269 was originally designed as a preamp to mate with the unamplified winegard squareshooter #SS1000. It was designed to operate in the suburban setting less than 30 or so miles from the towers. The winegard preamp HDP 269 has 12 Db of gain, very high overload tolerance (325,000 mv. which is 3 times more than the other high overload preamps), and only 3 db noise.

Preamps like the cm7777, cm7775, winegard ap8275, ap8700, ap 4800 were designed years ago to be used in the "boonies" over 35 miles to amplify weak signals where the signals were so weak that you did not have to worry about overload.

It is too bad that the hdp 269 has not yet caught on...and I have been plugging it like crazy. At my home, I am 19 miles from the towers, with an oversized antenna the HD8200P. There is an FM tower less then a mile from my home. I could NEVER use a conventional higher powered preamp until now...I tried but I got overload.

At my home I needed amplification of some sort because I split my signal 6 ways...4 short run and 2 long run. Since preamps overloaded my system and I am TOTALLY AGAINST using attenuators since attenuators affect and weaken all channels in the tv spectrum...I had to settle with a distribution amp.

This is where using an HDP269 is so cool.

It is a better alternative where you would have used a distribution amp to improve the signal for long cable runs in your home or could not use conventional preamps installed at the antenna.

Here is why...

-you are amplifying the signal at the antenna, not down the line thereby amplifying the signal closer to the source as opposed to after the signal has a chance to get noisy at the distribution amp point in the house.

-the gain is not much more than a standard in home distribution amp...12 db -vs 8 db which is typical.

-the preamp has only 3 db noise -vs.- 6db typical of distribution amps

-is more tolerant to overload because of its design (325,000 mv vs 85000 mv typical of other high tolerant preamps).

-has an internal FM trap to attenuate FM stations that can overload the signal if FM is an issue.

-is designed to not overload your ota receiver in the suburban and urban setting.

I am very happy with the results and wanted to share this alternative with you. I now have no need for attenuation, disconnected the distribution amp, and the pictures are very clean even on the weaker analog channels.

When I want to play and receive distant channels, I get the bonus of amplifing right at the antenna where I could not accomplish that before with preamps like the cm7777 in my suburban setting.

Hope I explained this well...because this is a great opportunity for folks needing to amplify in the urban and suburban setting 0-35 miles or so from towers.
 
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navychop

navychop

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But would it help with the stations 40 miles away? For my situation, would the HDP269 help bring in the 40 miles stations, not overload the 15 mile stations, and still let me bring in FM? And then skip the distro amp, just go with splitters?

If it wouldn't do much for the stations 40 miles away, would it still be preferable to use it and splitters rather than no pre amp and using a distro amp?
 
Rick0725

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navychop said:
But would it help with the stations 40 miles away? For my situation, would the HDP269 help bring in the 40 miles stations, not overload the 15 mile stations, and still let me bring in FM? And then skip the distro amp, just go with splitters?

If it wouldn't do much for the stations 40 miles away, would it still be preferable to use it and splitters rather than no pre amp and using a distro amp?


The HDP269 will help bring in the 40 miles stations... not cause overload BY the 15 mile stations, and let you receive FM. You would not need the distro amp and would just go with splitters.

For best FM reception, use a separate FM antenna and filter out the fm on the combo antenna for cleaner tv reception. Below my HD8200P is a wade QFM-9 fm antenna. ..there are better now but that was all that was available to me 16 years ago...they are not expensive.
 
navychop

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OK- I just ordered the HDP269, CM3671, CM rotor, tripod, etc. Let's see how long it takes to get here, and how it all works. Rotor is backordered until the end of May. Hopefully, they will ship the rest and not hold it all. I may call them about that.

Thanks to all, especially rick0725, for your help.
 
Rick0725

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There is a national shortage on rotors with cm...supplier issues in china...supplied bad product. It may take awhile to get rotors thru the pipeline. Try lowes and stark electronics.

fyi The control box is made by Pioneer for CM and uses the same codes as a pioneer cable box... this allows you to use the "cable" mode on your TV or OTA remote to control the Rotor too. And The ArcherRotor brand name sold by Radio Shack were all made for them by Channel Master.


http://www.starkelectronic.com/cmmatv.htm#rotor
 
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