UHF OTA on VIP 612 Doesn't work

M

mmcl26554

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 18, 2006
348
2
Northern WV
I have 9 Over The Air channels I receive 8 of them are VHF and 1 is UHF. My VIP 622 and TV get all of them just fine with signal strengths over 80. However, the VIP 612 does not find the UHF channel during a scan nor does it see it on the Add channel screen. The Channel number is 33 the display number is 24.
The 622, TV and 612 are all fed from the same splitter but only the 612 is unable to receive the UHF channel. I have tried a different cable from the splitter to the 612, connected the 612 directly to the antenna line thereby bypassing the combiner and splitter combinations (I do not duplex). I have a second UHF antenna on my tower and switched over to it. None of these helped. It is set to receive HD &SD digital channels. Dish has replaced the 612 actually twice but the firsr replacement receiver was DOA. The second 612 also does not receive the UHF channel. I think the tuner is defective and the UHF part of it does not work, it is a little strange I have had the problem with 2 receivers. I am wondering if anyone else has had a problem with receiving UHF OTA?
Dish has agreed to replace the 612 with a 622 so that will solve the problem, but I would really like to know what is going on
M
 
TheKrell

TheKrell

A mighty and noble race originating on Altair IV.
Pub Member / Supporter
Jan 4, 2007
33,722
28,901
Fairfax, VA
Hard to say. Can you post the output from http://tvfool.com for your location? I have no trouble receiving UHF on my two 612's, though I had to struggle with my antenna and amping arrangements before I got it to do what I wanted. Once you realize that the signal strength meter really doesn't read signal strength, then you have achieved true enlightenment. ;)
 
the mack

the mack

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 10, 2009
1,479
480
HOCKEYTOWN
wonder what DMA has 8 vhf channels? thought most markets were high vhf and uhf only?
 
M

mmcl26554

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 18, 2006
348
2
Northern WV
There are actually 3 VHF channels, each has 2 virtual channels for a total of 6, the UHF channel has 3 virtual channels for a grand total of 9 channels I can receive OTA.
The signal strength is: Channel 5 -50.9db, Channel 10 -63.2db, Channel 10 -67.3db and Channel 33 -53.9db. The VHF are all 16 miles from my antenna and the UHF is 25 miles as the crow flies. The UHF has the most powerful transmitter. Remember, my 622 gets all 9 without difficulty and the TV the same. Only the 612 has a problem and then only with UHF. They are all connected to the same antenna which has a rotor and I can fine tune the direction the antenna points which I have done. I assume that although the signal strength may not give an actual signal strength it will give you a relative comparison and the UHF channel is the second highest. I think the tuner is defective and I was just unlucky enough to get 2 replacements which were defective.
M
 
TheKrell

TheKrell

A mighty and noble race originating on Altair IV.
Pub Member / Supporter
Jan 4, 2007
33,722
28,901
Fairfax, VA
The so called signal strength is more like an inverse error rate with 100 being "none." If the "strength" varies all over the place, this is usually an indication of multipath. But you say you get zero (actually less than about 60 on this meter) or no signal detected at all. Hmmm. The only time I ever saw something like that was when I had a distribution amp in the line whose input stage was wiped out by a nearby station. I had no problem before the transition, but when that station came on, blam! My 612 couldn't scan in any channels at all most of the time. I had to pull out the amp, rotate the antenna to null out the nearby station, and then finally I could scan in stations again. Is there any amplification involved in your cabling? What combiner are you talking about? If you have separate antennas for VHF and UHF, perhaps your UHF antenna has too much gain.

The bottom line is that you have plenty of signal with such nearby stations. I would recommend trying the 612 with an unamplified indoor antenna and see what you get.
 
Last edited:
KAB

KAB

SatelliteGuys Master
Pub Member / Supporter
Lifetime Supporter
Sep 20, 2005
20,829
4,166
Fishers, IN
Sounds to me like your locals are set on Cable, not Off-Air.
 
M

mmcl26554

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 18, 2006
348
2
Northern WV
There is an amplifier in the circuit. The problem you are talking about is oscillation caused by either to many channels or to high a signal strength for them. And as a matter of fact there is a problem with overload coming from the UHF channel. I attenuated the UHF channel by 3db and that stopped the overload oscillation. The local channels are set to "Over The Air", that is one of the first things I did check. The one issue that points to the 612 is the fact that neither the 622 nor the TV is effected by this issue, one would have to conclude the antenna and distribution system is not at fault.
The combiner and splitter is first a 4 way splitter used backwards so that it will combine the RF output of the 612, 622 and the antenna into one line then it goes to an 8 way splitter to be distributed to the antenna input of the 612,622,TV and other TV 's throughout the home.
M
 
n0qcu

n0qcu

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Sep 7, 2003
4,934
1,528
Earth
Check the following (I am assuming the 612 has this setting)

Menu, system setup, HDTV setup, And make sure the "analog type" setting is set for Offair
 
KAB

KAB

SatelliteGuys Master
Pub Member / Supporter
Lifetime Supporter
Sep 20, 2005
20,829
4,166
Fishers, IN
Check the following (I am assuming the 612 has this setting)

Menu, system setup, HDTV setup, And make sure the "analog type" setting is set for Offair

Been covered and responded to.
 
T

tempVAdish

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 4, 2005
709
0
Temperanceville, VA
... The signal strength is: Channel 5 -50.9db, Channel 10 -63.2db, Channel 10 -67.3db and Channel 33 -53.9db... There is an amplifier in the circuit. The problem you are talking about is oscillation caused by either to many channels or to high a signal strength for them. And as a matter of fact there is a problem with overload coming from the UHF channel. I attenuated the UHF channel by 3db and that stopped the overload oscillation. The local channels are set to "Over The Air", that is one of the first things I did check. The one issue that points to the 612 is the fact that neither the 622 nor the TV is effected by this issue, one would have to conclude the antenna and distribution system is not at fault.
The combiner and splitter is first a 4 way splitter used backwards so that it will combine the RF output of the 612, 622 and the antenna into one line then it goes to an 8 way splitter to be distributed to the antenna input of the 612,622,TV and other TV 's throughout the home.
M

Run the OTA directly to the 612 & see what you get... those are some pretty low -#s & if i remember correctly, a 4way drops 7dB each tap & an 8way will drop more. It could even be a bad tap on one of your splitters, been there & seen that, or could be a bad splitter completely. Not sure if they still make them or not, but there was a time in the early 90's when I used to do CATV / TV / SAT work that splitters were made for CATV only, meaning they wouldn't pass UHF, only VHF HI, MID, LOW... I'd start w/ running the single OTA line into the 612 & start there. My inlaws have one & it's been flawless, & our UHF stations are 40 miles away (not a single VHF)...

Keep me posted, I'm curious to what you find...

oh, as for the "over the air / cable" in the 612 menu... it's for the modulated output, none of the VIP units have CATV tuners...
 
Last edited:
KAB

KAB

SatelliteGuys Master
Pub Member / Supporter
Lifetime Supporter
Sep 20, 2005
20,829
4,166
Fishers, IN
oh, as for the "over the air / cable" in the 612 menu... it's for the modulated output, none of the VIP units have CATV tuners...

Not exactly so. In HD setup...analogue type, there is an off-air and cable option. The cable option will not detect stations in UHF when scanning for locals. Or, it will knock out UHF channels if accidentally changed...as as happened with software updates from time to time. It's ridiculous for it to be there, but is nevertheless and has tripped up many people.
 
M

mmcl26554

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 18, 2006
348
2
Northern WV
Does anyone have a 612 that DOES receive UHF channels well over-the-air?
M
 
Last edited:
M

mmcl26554

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 18, 2006
348
2
Northern WV
tempVAdish

As part of my original evaluation I did bypass the splitter and combiner to no avail. I also swapped the ports between the 622 and 612 because the port which the 622 was connected is absolutely a known good working port. This made no difference also.
Splitters do reduce signal strength 3db for every pain of outlets but a splitter used as a combiner does not significantly reduce signal strength. In any case I have a booster in the circuit which more than compensates for all losses within the system. But again, remember the 622 and TV's work fine
 
M

mmcl26554

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 18, 2006
348
2
Northern WV
In addition to post number 2 are there any others who can receive UHF Over-the-air? Anyone else who cannot?
M
 
TheKrell

TheKrell

A mighty and noble race originating on Altair IV.
Pub Member / Supporter
Jan 4, 2007
33,722
28,901
Fairfax, VA
I also swapped the ports between the 622 and 612 because the port which the 622 was connected is absolutely a known good working port. This made no difference also.
Having a known-good port on a splitter is a good test, but if I understand what you did, then your cable to the 612 might still be crappy.

You didn't yet try one test I mentioned above. (Or if you did try it, you didn't tell us.) That is the indoor antenna.

One thing KAB mentioned you also didn't try How about that setting in the HD Setup menu that will KILL THE UHF band if it's set for cable?
 
M

mmcl26554

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 18, 2006
348
2
Northern WV
I had reported in post 8 that I did check and found it was set to off air and not cable, ifc or hrc.

I have an even better test. I picked up the replacement 622 and installed it using all the same cabling and connections as the 612 and put it in the same position in the entertainment center. The 622 found the UHF 33 channel immediately that the 612s never did find. The seems to prove that at least the 2 612s I got would not receive UHF channel off the air. This may be a problem unique to the ones I had, since no one has reported a similar problem.
M
 
B

Barry Erick

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 27, 2004
1,020
0
Dallas
First, are those VHF channels the RF channels or the Virtual Channels? Before anything, one needs to know the real chalnnels. It may be possible that you are receiving UHF channels that are mapped to a VHF virtual channel, and not receiving some UHF Virtual channels because theiy are really CHF and you have a UHF only ontenns.
Start with the actual RF channels as we can't help without that.
 
M

mmcl26554

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 18, 2006
348
2
Northern WV
UHF real channel number 33 reports as channel UHF 24. This is the problematic channel. VHF channels 5,10,12 VHF channels all operate on those channels. Remember the original 622 and now the replacement 622 (replaced the 612) All work just fine, are all connected to the same outdoor antenna and the receivers are in the same entertainment center.
M
 

Similar threads

cruzmisl
Replies
9
Views
1K
Highwayman
Highwayman
M
Replies
13
Views
3K
Tampa8
Tampa8
S
Replies
13
Views
4K
TheKrell
TheKrell
hankster211
Replies
7
Views
2K
TheKrell
TheKrell
cashmonee
Replies
4
Views
1K
Jim5506
Jim5506
Top