Updated: Court blocks Permanent Injuction ordering DISH DVRs disabled

[nitstalker]

Don't add fuel to the fire. DirecTV has nothing to do with this. DirecTV just licenses Tivo. Tivo is protecting it's interests.

Of Course DirectTV has to do with this! The only reason Tivo is still in business right now is because of them. If Tivo were to go out and liquidate, who knows whos hands the Tivo patents would end up in... Someone who is not friendly to D*? A competitor to D*? Do you really think the DirecTV wants to be making their license payments to Echostar? D* could get really hurt depending on the fate of Tivo. This is why they are very much behind this...


Another thing to consider: at a time when they were going down, DirecTV (the only REAL thing keeping them afloat) told them "Ok, look you go after Echostar or we are pulling the plug" What do you think they would do? Say go ahead and pull the plug on the money, we'll sue you too? They couldnt have survived a suit with everybody. All their capital would be sucked up by legal fees with virtually no income. So what do they do? Do what the giant asked them to do, of course this is speculation....

 

[fenwah]

This is great news. I just ordered a 622 on Monday with a freakin' 18 month commitment. If the 622 DVR gets turned off, I would think that Dish would be in breach of our contract and void it so i could go elsewhere.

 

[Getut]

Ghost

I'm going to ghost the OS partition tonight and put the old program back each time they try to upload software changes.

 

[foghorn2]

Why did not Tivo licence technology from E* to add Dish's tuners to their boxes?

If they stated that the sales of their boxes was hurt by E*, did they even go this route first?

(are the lawyers listening?)

 

[Greg Bimson]

DirecTV (the only REAL thing keeping them afloat) told them "Ok, look you go after Echostar or we are pulling the plug" What do you think they would do?

You're kidding, right?

DirecTV simply asked TiVo to go after Echostar, while at the same time DirecTV decided to abandon TiVo. That doesn't add up.

The only reason there is an agreement between TiVo and DirecTV right now is because DirecTV was scared of being sued by TiVo. It is no wonder DirecTV signed an extension agreement with TiVo directly before the verdict was delivered in the TiVo v. Echostar case.

TiVo only needed to sue one DVR manufacturer to enforce their patent. They went after the largest alleged infringer at the time. Dish Network had way more DVR's available than anyone else.

If TiVo won the case against Echostar, every other DVR manufacturer would then line up for a licensing agreement. DirecTV already signed their licensing extension.

 

[Peter Parker]

E* would have to refund full purchase price for all DVRs still on warranty, so they will most likely settle. B

What is your basis for that?

 

[dslate69]

What patents do Replay and Moxi hold ?
Could DISH just buy either one of them and be compliant.
Many moons ago, DISH was working with MOXI on an OS that evidently fell through.

 

[nitstalker]

Greg, just pure speculation... No one knows what really goes on in the executive offices... Hell, Osama himself could be the one doing it for all we know....

 

[RandallA]

Can someone pls. explain what these 192,708 units that won't be affected are?

"Defendants are hereby FURTHER ORDERED to, within thirty (30) days of the issuance of this order, disable the DVR functionality in all but 192,708 units of the Infringing Products that have been placed with an end user or subscriber."

The infringing products don't include the 622s so those are NOT the units that wont' be affected.

Also in the ruling it says:

"The DVR functionality, i.e., disable all storage to an playback from a hard disk drive of television data shall not be enabled in any new placements of the Infringing Products."

So does this mean it will only apply to "new placements"?

 

[Greg Bimson]

Why did not Tivo licence technology from E* to add Dish's tuners to their boxes?

If they stated that the sales of their boxes was hurt by E*, did they even go this route first?

TiVo tried to enter into an agreement with Dish Network. TiVo was rebuffed on every move while Echostar moved production of their DVR's from the Microsoft Web TV client to their in-house distribution.

Remeber, the crux of the matter is that if Dish Network wanted to use TiVo's technology, they needed to license it from TiVo. Once Dish Network selected Web TV, TiVo signed the exact agreement you describe, but with DirecTV, because DirecTV needed embedded DVR's.

 

[David Dietzel]

Everyone who has a DVR, whether from Dish, Direct, a cable company or Tivo is addicted to it.

Dish will have to resolve this issue such that they can offer their subscribers a DVR option.

Either a Dish-branded unit with licensed Tivo software, or a Tivo unit, or perhaps, Dish and Tivo will enter merger talks. There is a chance that if the appeal is heard in a court outside of Texas Dish might get a more fair, educated and intelligent jury from a population pool that is less concerned with ideology -- and Dish would likely prevail.

Unless Dish lifted Tivo's code, I really don't see how Tivo should prevail. My 942 lacks features included with a Tivo.

In fact, I'd really like to see Dish license the Tivo technology exactly as I do think the Tivo is actually a superior DVR.

 

[elee532]

Many moons ago, DISH was working with MOXI on an OS that evidently fell through.

Having just switched from a Charter Moxi to Dish's 622, I can see why. The Moxi interface was excruciatingly slow.

 

[Hall]

This is great news. I just ordered a 622 on Monday with a freakin' 18 month commitment. If the 622 DVR gets turned off, I would think that Dish would be in breach of our contract and void it so i could go elsewhere.

Don't be so sure about that.... Officially, you have an 18-mo contract for Dish to provide you programming services. The DVR fee is a seperate line-item on your bill that they could easily remove.

Now, would they have to refund some part of the $200 (or more) that people paid to get the 622 ??

 

[Hall]

Unless Dish lifted Tivo's code, I really don't see how Tivo should prevail. My 942 lacks features included with a Tivo.

That doesn't prove or disprove that Dish didn't copy code. Besides, I don't think that's the issue. Two people can write code to perform the exact same function, yet their code can look vastly different. TiVo has patented the concept of some function, not the exact function nor how to perform that function.

 

[Hall]

The infringing products don't include the 622s so those are NOT the units that wont' be affected.

Most likely there's a simple explanation: The ViP622 wasn't a released product at the time the suit was filed. Does this mean the 622 is free and clear (Whoo-hoo !!) or that the list simply needs amended ??

 

[David_Levin]

Is this really a surprise?

The Texas court is just upholding the original ruling.

Isn't the Patent office still reviewing the validity of TiVo's patents (or is that completed)?

 

[ralfyguy]

Can someone pls. explain what these 192,708 units that won't be affected are?

"Defendants are hereby FURTHER ORDERED to, within thirty (30) days of the issuance of this order, disable the DVR functionality in all but 192,708 units of the Infringing Products that have been placed with an end user or subscriber."

The infringing products don't include the 622s so those are NOT the units that wont' be affected.

Also in the ruling it says:

"The DVR functionality, i.e., disable all storage to an playback from a hard disk drive of television data shall not be enabled in any new placements of the Infringing Products."

So does this mean it will only apply to "new placements"?

Also it still makes me wonder WHY the 622 is not included. I don't think it has to do with the time this was filed/ruled, as the 622 is available since awhile. OTH what makes the function of the 622 so different from the 942, or 625? The only difference is Mpeg4 and HD capability to the 625, or just the Mpeg4 to the 942, which is really not that different from the 622 at all. The whole UI is almost identical. No matter what's different on the 622, it still does the same things the other DVR's do, the same things they get sued for.

Other question is, how do the recivers get affected if there is a DVR shutoff? The whole reason why this pausing live tv works, is because of the fact that the picture you see runs through the hard drive first. The whole thing is designed like that. If they shut the hard drive down, the receiver has no function at all.

However, if all this really happens ( And I am not for illegal hacking), I almost wish somebody comes up with a fix to re-enable the function after the shutoff, just because all this is BS.

 

[StevenD]

I'm going to ghost the OS partition tonight and put the old program back each time they try to upload software changes.

Good luck with that!

 

[long_time_DNC]

I would hope that we would get some news (good news) on this situation soon. None of us want our DVRs deactivated, nor does Dish want to deactivate them, for obvious reasons.

If deactivation of the DVR functionality does occur, the only beneficiaries would be D* and cable, as most customers who want DVR functionality will be forced to switch to a company that provides it.

I don't like anything I'm reading about this situation....

 

[shanewalker]

Maybe we should be addressing the fine Texas judges w/ language they might understand (and sorry to Mr. Heston for ripping his famous line):

"You can have my 622 when you pry it from my cold dead hands!!"

O.K., maybe that's a bit extreme. But I do love my 622s. And to think I considered getting a couple of Tivos before buying my second Dish DVR Tivo just lost me as any potential future customer.

Tivo is to DVRs, as Creative is to MP3 players (their suits against Apple were/are a joke)...they're becoming bitter wallflowers, resentful of the marketplace leaving them in the lurch, and are pathetically relying on lawsuits as a source of income.

Hey, here's an idea Tivo--build some HD DVRs that people want to buy and back off the subscription price gouging, then maybe you wouldn't see your competitors leaving you in the dust!