Updated: Court blocks Permanent Injuction ordering DISH DVRs disabled

[Mtnmike]

Dish should go ahead and BUY TIVO . THen he will make the lawsuit go bye bye and he will get revenue from all stand alone receivers and Directv tivos.

Do you really think TIVO would do such a thing? 1st they must want to sell. 2nd there would have to be a lucrative enough offer that would be hard for their board of directors to refuse.

I know everybody (corporations included) has a price they would sell at, but I would bet TIVO's would be far greater than what Echostar would have to pay in damages, legal costs, and attending losses as a result of this lawsuit. TIVO holds the cards now and they aren't going to walk away from this, and could care less about the survival of DISH or how upset it may make DISH customers. Echostar is in a very bad with this latest decision and will suffer tremendously regardless of the final outcome.

 

[bertbarndoor]

So, DISH or DIRECTV? Which should I go with?

Ok, I was all set to go with Dish because of all their HD channels and slightly less expensive. I was going to get the HD DVR. BUT!!!! Now I read all this? I'm worried that if I go with Dish and get the PVR, it will be turned off next month! I know everyone is saying don't worry, but I guess I have to say it... I am!

I guess I know that DISH will likely sort something out, but what happens to us in the mean time? What prevents them from saying, sorry guys, extra fees because of the nasty judge and nasty Tivo??

Also, Dish wants a pro to install which I don't want!!! (actually can't for a few reasons)

So, should I go with DISH or DirecTV?

 

[shanewalker]

I was a DirecTV sub for many years, and I can unequivocably say that Dish is by far a superior choice, esp. for anyone wanting HD content.

I would only go w/ D* if their exclusive sports packages are something you're adamantly desiring. But if you don't 'need' those...

 

[guapoharry]

Ok, I was all set to go with Dish because of all their HD channels and slightly less expensive. I was going to get the HD DVR...

Are HD DVRs affected by the ruling? Aren't some HD DVRs not affected?

 

[MikeD-C05]

People the reason why Tivo is suing Dish is that their past and their future still does not look good.

Even if they black mail Dish into giving them money in the settlement and force a software license deal they will still not make it long term. That is why they keep suing other companies and forcing these deals. They have no future in the stand alone Tivo receiver business. They just now came up with a stand alone dual tuner tivo. Either way the Cable and satellite business and I am sure the telecos too , will not need Tivo. They have all come up with their own generic versions of Tivo and they don't want a third party extorting money from them in a regular day to day business. Even Directv that started with Tivo only dvr receivers has decided to go ahead with a generic dvr instead. The three year deal they signed between Directv & Tivo is to prevent the two companies from suing each other. Tivo has no future as a stand alone company . Tivo has become just like zerox. Everyone calls it zerox but how many actually uses a zerox copier today?

Charlie could even buy tivo and make them a subsidary of Echostar and use them in cooperation with the Dish software writers to come up with some really cool features for the Dish dvrs. I don't see why this wouldnt be better and cheaper than Charlie paying the settlement of 79 million plus work out a monthly license fee with Tivo like Directv has. At one time Charlie had invested in Slingblade too, why not Tivo?

 

[Voyager6]

Is Tivo for sale?

All publicly traded companies are "for sale". You just have to acquire a controlling interest in that company. There are many ways to acquire that controlling interest but the easiest is to just make a tender offer about 25% higher than the current market price. If the shareholders are interested in selling, they will offer their shares to you. This is highly simplified, of course, but you get the drift. Buy enough TiVo stock and you can gain control of the company.

 

[Barry Erick]

I still do not understand how Tivo has the patent on this as Tektronix did this with their Profile that broadcasters use years before there was a Tivo. And while the profile is mainly used to store and playback commercials, it comes with trial software called Time Delay that the broadcaster or production house could purchase and do exactly what Tivo does. But did it years before.

 

[Ken F]

I still do not understand how Tivo has the patent on this as Tektronix did this with their Profile that broadcasters use years before there was a Tivo. And while the profile is mainly used to store and playback commercials, it comes with trial software called Time Delay that the broadcaster or production house could purchase and do exactly what Tivo does. But did it years before.

Tivo's patent isn't for the idea. It's for the implementation. Specifically, Tivo found a much cheaper way to implement an idea / functionality that was previously only available in professional broadcast products costing thousands of dollars. There are certainly ways to produce a DVR without infringing on that particular patent -- if the cost and complexity of the hardware in the box doesn't matter.

(Of course, Tivo holds other patents as well.)

 

[Ken F]

All publicly traded companies are "for sale". You just have to acquire a controlling interest in that company. There are many ways to acquire that controlling interest but the easiest is to just make a tender offer about 25% higher than the current market price. If the shareholders are interested in selling, they will offer their shares to you. This is highly simplified, of course, but you get the drift. Buy enough TiVo stock and you can gain control of the company.

Tivo is 70-80% institutionally held, so Dish can't start buying up substantial amounts of Tivo stock without making headlines.

Tivo is also still under contract to provide products and services to DirecTV and Comcast.

 

[Voyager6]

Tivo is 70-80% institutionally held, so Dish can't start buying up substantial amounts of Tivo stock without making headlines.

Tivo is also still under contract to provide products and services to DirecTV and Comcast.

If E* were to offer a stock swap (at an appropriate ratio) for their shares, the institutions may very well tender their shares. Or a combination of stock and cash. E* is a money maker and TiVo is not. This is all speculation of course.

 

[TheForce]

Unlike DirecTV Dish is all about doing what the customer wants for the least amount of cost they can. They make their goals and offerings known in a monthly TV program to the subscribers. DirecTV does none of this!

The greatest example was when VOOM went dark, Dish quickly secured 10 top VOOM original channels to offer it's HD enthusiasts and for that I will always say thanks, Then they expanded the national channels to include the largest selection of HDTV from any single MSO. And at higher quality than most of the others.
If it comes down to the wire, I think Dish will work this out to all our satisfaction. If necessary, it WILL settle and/or buy out TIVO. But I think the buyout is a real long shot. The workout will probably be in the 11 hour.

 

[tlmcca]

I see two potential issues with E* acquiring TiVo. First, TiVo's market cap is about $680M without any sort of sweetener to attract individual stockholders. That's a lot of money, especially if you have been working on a solution of your own. Second, the FTC might not like E* being the licensee for a service integral to D*.

I expect that E* will license TiVo's implementation while they work toward a bullet-proof implementation of their own.

What I would be most concerned about is E* rushing a software solution to negate TiVo's position. Such a solution could result in major pain for the subscribers who end up serving as beta-testers. This is why I put my plans to switch from Charter Cable to E* on hold.

Wait and see.

Terry

 

[Pepper]

IF they license TiVo, there's no requirement that they USE what they have licensed, just keep using what they already have.

On the other hand if they try to come up with something brand new that does the same thing but is not infringing, I see your point.

 

[Ray_Clum]

I'm wondering if this would affect the at&t|Dish Homezone receiver as well? If not, then that would be a solution for those of us in at&t|Dish areas - switch our 522's for Homezones...

 

[normang]

It may cost Dish a pretty penny to buy Tivo, but in the long run, it could prove worth it, Tivo execs realize that its almost over for them, otherwise they would not trying to sue themselves back into the black.

How long would they last on licensing alone if no one else ever bought a Tivo product. specially at the prices they charge for their gear and the month fee's, and we though Dish was trying to rip us off??

 

[Nevada_MO_Guy]

Hypothetically:

If you buy your dish DVR, let's say from EBAY, and you subscribe to Dish Network for service.....and.......they disable your DVR player.

Can you sue them for vandalism of personal property?

 

[boy921]

Hypothetically:

If you buy your dish DVR, let's say from EBAY, and you subscribe to Dish Network for service.....and.......they disable your DVR player.

Can you sue them for vandalism of personal property?

That would be a nice option. But what about all the folks who leased and have many months left on the contract? If the DVR loses it functionality, does this negate the contract?

 

[normang]

That would be a nice option. But what about all the folks who leased and have many months left on the contract? If the DVR loses it functionality, does this negate the contract?

Will never ever happen... your DVR is not going to die..

 

[Mtnmike]

People the reason why Tivo is suing Dish is that their past and their future still does not look good. Even if they black mail Dish into giving them money in the settlement and force a software license deal they will still not make it long term. That is why they keep suing other companies and forcing these deals.

And you got this info from what source? You need a reality check.

TIVO is suing EchoStar for patent infringement. TIVO inventions protected by this patent, and illegally infringed on by EchoStar, include a method for recording one program while playing back another; watching a show as it is recording; and a storage format that supports advanced capabilities -- such as pausing live television, fast-forwarding, rewinding, instant replays, and slow motion.

They invented, developed, spent capital in doing so, and obtained legal patents for this product. As a result TIVO justifiably owns the rights which EchoStar took with no royality paid to TIVO. The trial court agreed and do not be surprised if the final appelate court upholds the lower court. That certainly is not blackmail. It is protecting one's property from corporate theft. Something you obviously either do not agree with; or have a hard time swallowing because you pay a monthly fee for a service that may be interupted by EchoStar's foolish and arrogant approach in the way it conducts business in this industry.

The court of appeals temporarily stayed the district court injunction only until it decides whether a stay should or should not be in effect for the duration of the appeals process. The court stated that the temporary stay is not based on a consideration of the merits of EchoStar’s appeal.

The district court ruled that EchoStar pay TIVO nearly $74 million in damages as awarded by jury (in addition to disabling all DVR's used by subscribers ). The final penalty would increase to $90 million based on $5.4 million in interest payments and $10.3 million in supplemental damages. If the decison stands the long term damage would be the loss of numerous current and future customers which translates into a serious revenue drop and a rise in monthly fees to compensate. The issue now puts EchoStar in a precarious position: either negotiate with TIVO, or risk losing subscribers.

By the way who else is TIVO suing?

 

[TheForce]

Dish is not going to let the DVR die. They will do what is necessary to maintain the future of their business. They know that the direction of all TV IS a DVR process and without that, Dish will have to close down. Way more at stake here than the 74M in damages, the need to pay a royalty to Tivo as the courts have ruiled. It is their entire business as well as all the investment they made in all their DVR development over the years that they stand to lose without any ability to recover. So, I think Dish will either have to negotiate a deal with Tivo, buy them out (much less likely) or close it's doors.