Uplink Activity 6/02/08 6:45 PM EDT - 73 CHANGES

rocatman

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 28, 2003
1,050
7
Yes, but not all new EA subs will be HD subs. They can get ViP receivers, but the HD channels will be disabled for their accounts.

I think if Dish does this then they will be stupidily wasting bandwidth that will limit the number of new HD channels that Dish can add. Will there be that many new SD subscribers that can not see 110/119 in the eastern U.S. ? Also if new subs don't subscribe to HD Programming will they have to pay a HD enabling fee?
 

kb7oeb

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 27, 2004
1,261
0
Phoenix,Arizona
Don't most HD receivers have both a HD and a RCA output for TV1? Wouldn't it be possible to do a software update disabling the HD ports unless a HD enabling fee had been paid? Don't know, just asking.

Currently if HD is not enabled the box doesn't let you tune any HD channel but they could just force the box to only output 480i or p unless HD is enabled.
 

mike123abc

Too many cables
Supporting Founder
Sep 25, 2003
23,907
2,669
Norman, OK
I think if Dish does this then they will be stupidily wasting bandwidth that will limit the number of new HD channels that Dish can add. Will there be that many new SD subscribers that can not see 110/119 in the eastern U.S. ? Also if new subs don't subscribe to HD Programming will they have to pay a HD enabling fee?

It is not that they cannot see 110/119, but it will be that they only want a single dish solution. I suspect they will only put the SD channels on 72.7, not fill up 61.5 with them. 61.5 will get all the HD until it is full to keep those currently having 110/119/61.5 two dish solution from having to change anything.

Dish has 50TPs on 110/119, 1 is leased out, 15 are used for spots. So, they have to duplicate 34 TPs worth of programming on 110/119 on 16 TPs on 72.7 using 8PSK and MPEG-4.
 

rocatman

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 28, 2003
1,050
7
It is not that they cannot see 110/119, but it will be that they only want a single dish solution. I suspect they will only put the SD channels on 72.7, not fill up 61.5 with them. 61.5 will get all the HD until it is full to keep those currently having 110/119/61.5 two dish solution from having to change anything.

Dish has 50TPs on 110/119, 1 is leased out, 15 are used for spots. So, they have to duplicate 34 TPs worth of programming on 110/119 on 16 TPs on 72.7 using 8PSK and MPEG-4.

Isn't a D500 dish pointed at 110/119 a single dish solution? In addition your count of TPs at 110/119 should take into account the 3 TPs at 110 that currently are used for HD using MPEG-2 so there are only 31 TPs that need to be duplicated so it is not a difficult task but providing a duplicate SD channel for a HD channel will limit Dish's ability to expand their HD lineup. For example, if of the 100 HD channels, Dish is planning to provide by the end of 2008, 64 have duplicate SD equivalents then Dish would be wasting 2 TPs that could provide another 12 HD channels (at 6 HD channels per TP) assuming Dish could put 32 SD channels on a TP using MPEG-4. In addition, is Dish going to put up all the local channels including the big 4 networks in each market in MPEG-4 SD in the Eastern Arc? Dish is not doing that now but this would also use a great deal of spotbeam bandwidth as well.
 

kstuart

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 5, 2006
5,206
0
Northern California
You seem to assume that Dish would not have gone to the trouble of up-linking on a Monday unless this 'new package' was already available to someone (or would be sometime this week). While I am willing to entertain the idea that this 'new package' could be a re-branded version of the existing dishHD (only) package (e.g. dishHD Absolute) that is being tested this week for announcement later, perhaps on the Charlie chat next week.

Except that there was a second uplink change solely to make the 41xx channels "Available". Channels that are "Not Available" are still available to testers. Channels that are "Available" can be tuned by subscribers to the packages listed in the Package Description.

Generally, channels that are made Available on Wednesday are communicated to Phone Reps on Thursday morning (although that may not apply in this case).
 

mike123abc

Too many cables
Supporting Founder
Sep 25, 2003
23,907
2,669
Norman, OK
Isn't a D500 dish pointed at 110/119 a single dish solution? In addition your count of TPs at 110/119 should take into account the 3 TPs at 110 that currently are used for HD using MPEG-2 so there are only 31 TPs that need to be duplicated so it is not a difficult task but providing a duplicate SD channel for a HD channel will limit Dish's ability to expand their HD lineup. For example, if of the 100 HD channels, Dish is planning to provide by the end of 2008, 64 have duplicate SD equivalents then Dish would be wasting 2 TPs that could provide another 12 HD channels (at 6 HD channels per TP) assuming Dish could put 32 SD channels on a TP using MPEG-4. In addition, is Dish going to put up all the local channels including the big 4 networks in each market in MPEG-4 SD in the Eastern Arc? Dish is not doing that now but this would also use a great deal of spotbeam bandwidth as well.

I should have been more clear. A single dish HD solution for the North East which cannot see 129, not a 2 dish solution like they have now pointing at 61.5 110/119.

One would assume they would be required by must carry to put all the standard definition LiL channels on EA. They seem to be putting the big 4 on one TP/market. Since it is 8PSK, they can probably put some MPEG-4 SD channels on the same spot TP eventually. They seem to be able to cram 7 HD channels on some TPs now, so I suspect they will put 4 (5 in some markets) HD and the rest SD until they are required to carry all the HD (2012?) feeds.

This is where Dish really needs another satellite at 61.5 so E12 can change more TPs to spots to cover the other locals in HD which they will be required to carry.

110 HD channels will have to be duplicated over on EA too, since the point will be a single dish solution that does not include 110. That is why I included the 110 HD TPs in the 72.7 duplication.

It appears that Dish is also duplicating larger markets on both Western Arc and Eastern Arc as cities like Dallas are already duplicated. When 129 goes spot beam it should be easy to duplicate all the top markets with the spot beam capacity on 129. This would allow the installer an option on which system to point to based on line of site. I suppose each city would have a preferred default system, like Atlanta should be on EA, and an EA dish would be standard, but 129 available if a tree was in the way.
 

rocatman

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 28, 2003
1,050
7
I should have been more clear. A single dish HD solution for the North East which cannot see 129, not a 2 dish solution like they have now pointing at 61.5 110/119.

One would assume they would be required by must carry to put all the standard definition LiL channels on EA. They seem to be putting the big 4 on one TP/market. Since it is 8PSK, they can probably put some MPEG-4 SD channels on the same spot TP eventually. They seem to be able to cram 7 HD channels on some TPs now, so I suspect they will put 4 (5 in some markets) HD and the rest SD until they are required to carry all the HD (2012?) feeds.

This is where Dish really needs another satellite at 61.5 so E12 can change more TPs to spots to cover the other locals in HD which they will be required to carry.

110 HD channels will have to be duplicated over on EA too, since the point will be a single dish solution that does not include 110. That is why I included the 110 HD TPs in the 72.7 duplication.

It appears that Dish is also duplicating larger markets on both Western Arc and Eastern Arc as cities like Dallas are already duplicated. When 129 goes spot beam it should be easy to duplicate all the top markets with the spot beam capacity on 129. This would allow the installer an option on which system to point to based on line of site. I suppose each city would have a preferred default system, like Atlanta should be on EA, and an EA dish would be standard, but 129 available if a tree was in the way.

So why would someone who does not want HD programming need to have a dish pointed at 61.5 W/Eastern Arc instead of 110/119? Certainly Dish should provide the channels that are only in SD in MPEG-4 for the Eastern Arc but to provide a SD channels that is a duplicate HD channel doesn't make sense. Duplicating locals on both the Eastern and Western Arcs long term doesn't make sense either because Dish is going to need more and more spotbeam capacity as they add more HD LILs and more local channels go HD. I think you see some cities on both 61.5 W and 129 W because Dish changed some of their plans to where things would be placed.
 

mike123abc

Too many cables
Supporting Founder
Sep 25, 2003
23,907
2,669
Norman, OK
So why would someone who does not want HD programming need to have a dish pointed at 61.5 W/Eastern Arc instead of 110/119? Certainly Dish should provide the channels that are only in SD in MPEG-4 for the Eastern Arc but to provide a SD channels that is a duplicate HD channel doesn't make sense. Duplicating locals on both the Eastern and Western Arcs long term doesn't make sense either because Dish is going to need more and more spotbeam capacity as they add more HD LILs and more local channels go HD. I think you see some cities on both 61.5 W and 129 W because Dish changed some of their plans to where things would be placed.

It is not clear exactly what Dish will duplicate. With the massive spot beam capacity of both 61.5 and 129, they could do the larger markets on both. Either they do both, or they will have to go change out dishs in a lot of locations (like Dallas and Atlanta, currently installing on 129 but being duplicated on 61.5).

The duplicate SD vs HD only on channels is a mystery. It would be nice if they only uplinked the HD version, but perhaps it is contract obligations with the programming providers that make both versions needed. It will be interesting to see what is uplinked, if only certain channels are dupped, all dupped or none dupped.
 

kstuart

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 5, 2006
5,206
0
Northern California
It is not clear exactly what Dish will duplicate. With the massive spot beam capacity of both 61.5 and 129, they could do the larger markets on both. Either they do both, or they will have to go change out dishs in a lot of locations (like Dallas and Atlanta, currently installing on 129 but being duplicated on 61.5).

The duplicate SD vs HD only on channels is a mystery. It would be nice if they only uplinked the HD version, but perhaps it is contract obligations with the programming providers that make both versions needed. It will be interesting to see what is uplinked, if only certain channels are dupped, all dupped or none dupped.

In the case of the duplicate markets, it's simple economics. Dish will simply calculate number of subscribers to the package times the cost to repoint, and compare that to income they would receive from freeing up the transponder for other uses.

It is highly likely that eventually all market duplication will end - because
over the next 5 years, Dish will need to add thousands of HD locals in a couple hundred markets.

In terms of the SD vs HD duplication, it seems certain that 72.5 will offer all the National SD channels. The reason is that the point of the Eastern Arc is to offer a "one small dish solution". And, in the near term, many popular channels are still not HD (TV Land, ESPN Classic, MSNBC, Headline News, Comedy Channel, etc.), so those channels need to be offered to potential new subscribers.

And in all the HD Locals markets offered on 61.5, their SD Locals channels need to be on Eastern Arc, so those markets will be on Eastern Arc, and new SD-only subscribers will need Eastern Arc for the "one small dish solution".

This is why the Eastern Arc dish has three LNBs - to fit all those channels, you need three slots...
 

rocatman

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 28, 2003
1,050
7
DirecTV Fears New*FCC TV Carriage Mandates - 6/4/2008 8:24:00 PM - Multichannel News

DIRECTV is fighting the FCC saying carry both SD and HD LiL mustcarry. I assume Dish feels the same way.

So unless the FCC mandates dual carriage in the next few months, I don't see Dish carrying the SD versions of the big four networks for locals in the Eastern Arc when the Eastern Arc service is initiated, rumored to be in September of 2008. If this is true than what does the Eastern Arc SD only subscriber do to get their local big four networks? Why they could just do what DirecTV proposes and is now currently possible on Dish's VIP receivers; have their VIP receiver can just downconvert them to a SD signal. Similarly the HD national channels can be downconerted and therefore there is no need for a SD duplicates for these channels. So even if there are new SD only subscribers hooked up to the Eastern Arc there is still no logical reason for Dish to provide a duplicate SD national channel that is offered in HD. In addition, it appears that some folks think that an Eastern Arc dish that gets 61.5/72.7/77 can be smaller than what is normally used for 110/119/129. It will not and a D500 dish will be required to get 61.5 and 72.7 just like the one used to get 110 and 119.
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 0, Members: 0, Guests: 0)

Latest posts

Top