VIP 211 STILL has audio sync problems?

[damag0r]

So, I just got Dish Network network HD and ALL of the HD channels have audio sync issues. I have a VIP 211. The strange thing is... it seems like sometimes the audio is delayed and sometimes it is too early. It varies greatly. Sometimes it is barely noticeable sometimes it is almost a full second off. Some channels are better than others, but ALL have the symptom once in a while.

I am extremely disatisfied and I'm going to try to get out of my contract, but I will try component cables first and see if it is the hdmi/digital audio that is the problem. However from what I've read on this forum this seems like a problem that has been ongoing with Dish receivers since 2006.

Anyone have any ideas before I raise hell and try to get out of my contract? I believe under SC state law I have some time to get out of any contract I sign.

To be honest folks, I used to run VDR on linux and I had no problems with audio sync. Only did I have problems when it was a problem with the feed for a specific channel. Why can't I just buy a card that is unmarried so I can use with a 3rd party DVB-S/S2 receiver or on my PC with VDR/MythTV?

Why is my service WORSE now that I'm paying for it? This is absurd. I'd be happy to pay for my service if my CAM wasn't married to the receiver and/or their receivers didn't SUCK.

The SD channels are fine... perfect.. only a problem with HD channels.

:rant:

 

[highdefjeff]

So, I just got Dish Network network HD and ALL of the HD channels have audio sync issues. I have a VIP 211. The strange thing is... it seems like sometimes the audio is delayed and sometimes it is too early. It varies greatly. Sometimes it is barely noticeable sometimes it is almost a full second off. Some channels are better than others, but ALL have the symptom once in a while.

I am extremely disatisfied and I'm going to try to get out of my contract, but I will try component cables first and see if it is the hdmi/digital audio that is the problem. However from what I've read on this forum this seems like a problem that has been ongoing with Dish receivers since 2006.

Anyone have any ideas before I raise hell and try to get out of my contract? I believe under SC state law I have some time to get out of any contract I sign.

To be honest folks, I used to run VDR on linux and I had no problems with audio sync. Only did I have problems when it was a problem with the feed for a specific channel. Why can't I just buy a card that is unmarried so I can use with a 3rd party DVB-S/S2 receiver or on my PC with VDR/MythTV?

Why is my service WORSE now that I'm paying for it? This is absurd. I'd be happy to pay for my service if my CAM wasn't married to the receiver and/or their receivers didn't SUCK.

The SD channels are fine... perfect.. only a problem with HD channels.

:rant:

How is your signal on the HD satellites?

 

[kvnfl]

Have you selected "HDTV" as TV type? Play with this switch and see if it gets any better.

If that does not fix it, then try different cables as you said you would.

Also, check your TV Menu for "Lip Synch" or something like that. If you are using an AV Receiver, it might have a Synch feature also.

It is not just a Dish problem. I get Comcast as part of an Association and their HD Audio/Video Synch is horrible. FOX News HD is always about a second behind. AMC HD is all over the place. At least with Dish I was able to find a happy mix of switches and cables so that Lip Sych features did not need adjusted, much.

 

[jlo]

you should check your signal, any in line devices? dolby set up? using hdmi? try some rca at the same time and see if there is a difference.

 

[damag0r]

Well ok, I think a lot of the problem was the particular 211 I was using. I traded receivers with my room mate who isn't as picky as I am and my audio sync has been much better. Keep in mind I did also switch to analog component and analog audio.

One channel in particular I notice is really bad though still. 176 (Cartoon Network). I think this is a problem with the feed though. It is still as bad as it was last night when I was watching King of the Hill and all of the sound effects were a second off. CN's HD feed is worthless though, they don't even display their 16:9 HD content in the correct aspect ratio. So I'll just use the SD version of that channel which has correct aspect ratio and I can just zoom in on if it is letterboxed.

There is no lip sync option on the 211 that I can see. only audio option lets you switch between Dolby Digital Line/RF mode and between PCM and Dolby Digital. Changing it has no affect, so I've kept it at the default both PCM and Dolby. I wish I could turn off the digital audio completely if I'm not going to use it though, maybe it is putting more stress on the receiver?

Anyways, so far 107 Comedy Central, and 182 Discovery are both synched perfectly. (with the different 211.

PS. Now my roommate is complaining about audio sync issues on the local channels when using the 211 I traded him to tune OTA. The one I took from him doesn't. I guess we will just call DN for a replacement receiver.

Also, how do you get in on the betatesting for new receivers? These 211s aren't quite there imo, if there is ever any signal dropout they do tend to get desynched at least for a little while. I don't think my install guy put my new dish far enough out in the yard, the tree above it might be causing signal disruption on occasion. I'll try trimming the tree branches and if that doesn't fix the signal dropout I'll ask them to send someone else to put the dish further out and away from this tree. (Again, I'm not sure, as when I look at my signal it seems fine. I've just noticed I lost signal a couple of times today for a second or two when the sky was clear)

Signal Strength:
110: 77
119: 76
129: bounces around all over the place between 40 and 70 but usually stays steady at about 50

I have an old dish pointed at 61.5 on my roof with EXCELLENT signal I wish I could just use it instead of 129 and this triple LNFB dish, but the install guy didn't want to get up there. (I think it needs a dishpro LNFB though to work with modern DN receivers???)

 

[highdefjeff]

Your signal tells the story.

You probably have branches waving in front of 129 which creates bouncing on the meter, and the low signal won't allow the audio and video layers to sync.

 

[BuddyBoy]

Your signal tells the story.

You probably have branches waving in front of 129 which creates bouncing on the meter, and the low signal won't allow the audio and video layers to sync.

That's got to be it, as the people who wrote the MPEG-2 transport stream spec weren't smart enough to require time stamps in each elementary stream in order to sync up the audio and video.

Oh wait, they were.

 

[damag0r]

That's got to be it, as the people who wrote the MPEG-2 transport stream spec weren't smart enough to require time stamps in each elementary stream in order to sync up the audio and video.

Oh wait, they were.

Yeah, I feel bad now for dogging MPEG-2 in the past. But for how old of a standard it is, it is actually quite good.. Just the DHT blocking in MPEG-2 gets bad pretty easily. MPEG-4 is much more efficient and looks much better though. :up

 

[BuddyBoy]

An MPEG-2 transport stream isn't limited to MPEG-2 encoded video. H.264 inside of an MPEG-2 transport stream is very common, in fact, that's how Dish broadcasts their HD.

I have no idea what you mean when you typed "DHT". Did you mean "DCT" maybe?

 

[highdefjeff]

That's got to be it, as the people who wrote the MPEG-2 transport stream spec weren't smart enough to require time stamps in each elementary stream in order to sync up the audio and video.

Oh wait, they were.

And if you have a compromised bit stream and the corrupted data is in the clock timer data..you can have sync issues.

Recently , I took part in Broadcast Engineering's Linear Acoustics webinar (07-14-09).

Guess what? Corrupted data can effect audio sync. Here are the contents of a couple of the slides that accompanied the webinar:

Bit stream issues
• MPEG Program Clock Reference (PCR)
– Sync’s encoder and decoder clocks without transmitting clock
– Allows decoder to re-synthesize master encoding clock
– Allows bit stream to be asynchronous with video and audio
– Allows file storage, etc.
• MPEG Presentation Time Stamp (PTS)
– Tells decoder when to present video and audio
– Critical to A/V sync

and

Bit stream issues
• PCR and PTS monitoring varies in decoders
– Problem if data is corrupted or missing
– Resynchronization questionable
– No formal requirement for decoder behavior

And, if it is not your signal or receiver, it could be short needles in your coax connections.