VIP-722 - Tech visit tomorrow, receiver #4 this month - help please :-D

[ianai]

Hello all. I'm new to the forums here, what an amazing wealth of information!! I tried a forum search, and found a lot of info on this issue but most of it seemed pretty old and I can't determine the relevance now..eg firmware issues, etc.

The story:

I have a 722 running in single-mode. I had my first for a year with zero issues. Absolutely adored the box until one day, about a month ago it just started to reboot constantly. We're talking before it even gets to acquiring satellites.

The green light comes on for maybe five seconds and BAM, reboot. Ocassionally, it will come up and I'll get from 1 to 120 minutes of TV, though it hasn't in two days now.

So when the first one started doing this, I called Dish, went over some mundane troubleshooting which was clearly irrelevant. Still, I stuck with it, went through the steps and ultimately got what I requested in the first ten seconds - a replacement receiver.

The new receiver arrived quickly, I had some trouble activating it but all was well. Then, when prompted to reset the box by the tech, the reset button pushed right through the front of the case..nice job on the refurb eh? So they sent another refurb.

This one has pretty much never worked. I got it up and running, thought all was well but after a few days it started as the other. First it was well spaced out, then more frequently and now it just reboots non-stop. It's almost humorous in a depressing sort of way. So I called again, and now they are sending out a tech tomorrow.

Some facts about the setup:

While overheating may be an issue, this box is in the EXACT same location as the first one I had which lasted over a year with no such heat issues. I've even moved the components around so that the VCR is below it and the DVD player beside it, neither of which are frequently turned on. I do not believe it to be a heat issue. Besides, if I unplug it for 24 hours, it does the same thing when completely cold.

Power issues? I've tried plugging the box via an extension chord into an outlet across the room which is on an entirely different breaker. Dish said it was probably an issue with being underpowered, so this was my test. I don't think that is the problem. My powerstrip is a Monster Power Station (boo monster, I didn't know at the time of purchase) and NO other components have ANY issues.

System Status: When it's up, everything is nominal. The switch checks are all OK or Dual on both feeds, with all three satellites showing up. The broadband connection is working, everything seems fine.

I'm not at home, so I can't really answer any questions via the menu system, not that I can get there anyway ;-)


Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm at my wits end. I love Dish's programming and pricing, but simply can't continue to experience these sorts of problems.

Info of possible relavance:

HDMI, Optical, No Offair Antenna

 

[KAB]

The 722's are for the most part, fairly reliable units. The number 1 reason by far for failure is overheating. Lack of ventilation around the unit causes this. Where is the unit placed...in a cabinet, bookshelf, entertainment center? It should never be closed up. Nor should any other component be right against it on its' left side. Ideally, it should be totally out in the open. Search the forum for 622/722 overheating. There are lots of suggestions on how to deal with it. For example, my two 722s (coincidentally) sit in open space within 3-4 feet of a cold air return with central fan running 24/7. Two years and 0 problems.

 

[MikeD-C05]

Is your install grounded? If it isn't this will cause reboots and problems. The other thing is air flow. If you have no ventilation on the SIDES of the receiver it will have over heating problems that lead to rebooting. IT will also reboot if you have other components under it or on it or besides it. The best bet is to dedicate one shelf to this dvr and allow full ventilation. NO closed cabinet doors on the front either. I had a new tv cabinet that had glass doors on the front and I even cut a hole in the back for air flow and within two days the 722 started rebooting like crazy. I also noticed my external hard drive hooked into my 722 was hot as hell and had no air flow. This caused rebooting also. I had to replace the dvr since it locked in reboot cycle. I then took the doors off the cabinet and put the new replacement dvr inside on a shelf by itself and no more rebooting. I also put the external hard drive on a shelf by itself instead of by the a/v receiver and no more problems. So my guess is that you have a heat issue on your dvr.

 

[ianai]

Hi guys, thanks for the replies.

My unit is in an entertainment center which may be limiting the air flow, but as mentioned the first unit I had worked non-stop for over a year with no heat issues. There are no doors, is nothing to the left within about 10 inches and the component below it (on a separate shelf) is the VCR, which maybe gets turned on every three years or so..if that. The component to the left is a DVD player, which also gets extremely minimal use and is never turned on simultaneously with the dvr as I use a Harmony remote.

The point that bugs me is that the setup is completely unchanged aside from my recent rearrangement of the components with heat regulation in mind. There were no issues for over a year, now, all of a sudden it's the same thing over and over again.


Regarding the possible ground issue, I've actually replaced the older wiring in my home in the last two weeks as my home is from the 30's and the ground was shaky at best. Of course, the issues pre-date the recent upgrade by two receivers. Regardless, I've put the outlet that powers my entertainment center on its own breaker, with new wiring all of which is grounded to the main ground of the home.

 

[MikeD-C05]

Well maybe the tech can see or recommend what to do when he comes out to solve your problem. Good luck.

 

[ianai]

Thanks :-D I appreciate the responses. I was thinking, worst case if it is truly heat I can cut the back of the entertainment center out, and possibly install some outward fans, maybe 120mm or something to help with air flow. I just can't get past the fact that it worked fine forever in this configuration. Anyway, thanks again. If the tech can figure it out, I'll post here the result.

 

[HDRoberts]

Could be the refurbs. It has been theorized that a lot of boxes are RA'd that only have intermittent problems, or problems that only crop up after a few days of operation. So, the Dish tech that refurbs the unit may set it up, play with it a little, can't immediatley reproduce the problem, so he or she boxes it back up and sends it to an unspsecting customer. They get it, and have no problems the first hour or so, but eventually the problem that coused to to get sent back in the first place crops up again.

 

[ianai]

That's an interesting theory, and I suspect it may be accurate. It's kind of the joke around my house actually. That they couldn't find anything wrong with the problem box so they packed it up and sent it back to replace the broken replacement - wish I'd recorded the serials ;-)

 

[KAB]

Well, play the variable and don't put it in your entertainment center for a couple of weeks and see what happens.

 

[ianai]

If that were possible I'd do just that. Unfortunately the layout of my living room doesn't allow for such accommodations.

I went in and touched it this afternoon and it is borderline cold. Certainly not hot, warm or even lukewarm. Unless a single overheat throws it into a permanent problem, heat isn't the issue.

One thing I don't understand is that the fans sound like jets when it first reboots, but they never come on like that otherwise. One would think that IF the box gets too hot, it would cycle these obviously powerful fans on to cool it as needed..as is the case with a laptop. Is that supposed to happen?

 

[Awohar]

try plugging the unit into power but with no other wires connected and see if it reboots constantly, if it behaves move to next step.

add one wire such as sat wire, monitor for reboots, if successful, add another wire such as telco, etc until you get to the reboot cycle...you might have some kind of ground loop causing power cycling.

 

[ianai]

Okay, the guys just left. A tech and his trainee. I've got to say, the service was excellent, they brought a BRAND NEW 722, which is cool as I'm quickly losing confidence in the refurbs. Not only that, they showed up about four hours early. Said my call was within five miles of their hotel, and the next was 45 miles away making it tough to make my appointment. That consideration is greatly appreciated - bravo to this tech, even if I was in bed when he got here ;-)

Regarding the situation, he mentioned that he's had no less than 10 calls for this exact problem in the last two weeks with 722s, and also confirmed that the placement of my box does not lend itself to the kind of overheating that would be problematic. He said it was the same pretty much everytime, that all was fine for a long time and then out of nowhere this starts, with a decent gap between reboots at first and quickly declines to the point my box was at, constant reboots, never getting so much as a picture on the screen before the next. I may still take some preventative measures and install a vent fan in the entertainment center - just a 120mm fan or something to send all heat out the back.

As of now, the box is working just fine. I'll monitor things closely and see what happens.

@Awohar - should this happen again I'll do exactly that. Good advice. I think I did try it on the first box though I just unplugged the outbound connections, not the coax.

 

[MikeD-C05]

Good to see that they fixed your issue, but it still sounds exactly like what I went through a few weeks ago with my 722. I had a 722 that was about a year old and it was in an open a/v tower with glass shelves. Plenty of open air circulation. I then bought a new 42" hdtv and a cabinet with doors on the front. I moved it to this cabinet and within 2 days I was having constant rebooting and then just the sound of fans going inside the box. I took the doors off the cabinet and moved the external hard drive I had connected to another shelf by itself ,away from the a/v receiver that I had before. I got my new 722 to replace the old one and put it back in the cabinet where it was before, sans the doors . I have had no more problems with the new one. I still think it was heat related since I felt both the external hard drive and the receiver and they were both hot as ovens. I think a good fan if you can find one would prevent any more problems ,except the normal hard drive failures that happen from time to time. DVRS are just like computers and have to be maintained at a certain temperature or you have failures. Grounding is also essential or there will be problems.

 

[KAB]

Ditto the above. Get a fan of some kind in your cabinet and cut a hole in the back. I'm sorry, but your tech should have never said your arrangement was not conducive to the problem. As you have described it, HE was just plain wrong. If he indeed had ten calls this week (I find hard to believe) then I'll bet they were all heat related. Some techs are not as knowledgeable as we would like them to be. I had one tell me I could not use an OTA antenna with my 722 after Feb 17!!!!

PLEASE heed our advice.

 

[ianai]

I hear ya MikeD. Maybe I should try liquid cooling, works well for my Computer :-D Still, unlike your change of config, mine had been fine for a long time before going nuts with nothing different. I suspect the first one just kinda died, and the third was an unrefurbished refurb per HDRoberts post. One thing is for sure, it can't hurt to move forward with the vent fan so I'll do that soon. Having seen how touchy these things are to heat in general perusal of the threads on this site plus the advice of the posters in this thread.

Many thanks to you all for your replies on this. Hopefully this shiny new 722 will be the ticket. I'll be sure and revisit the thread if the issue resurfaces. You all rock!

 

[ianai]

Okay, so it's been tested and here's my plan. I plugged a little usb vacuum into the USB port on my 722 and it powered up no problem. Now this is just a little tiny vacuum for keyboards, etc. Low power draw but it confirmed that I can move forward with my plan.

I'm going to cut up a PC 120MM fan cable, a USB cable, splice the two together and power it off the rear USB port on the receiver. I'm going to cut a hole and mount it such that it draws air out of the rear of the entertainment center.

I will of course test it for a while first on my USB ports, but the power draw will be very minimal and it should add that extra cooling that may prove the difference maker or if nothing else provide peace of mind that the space isn't allowing for too much heat build-up

Thanks again to all of you!!

EDIT: Splice is done, fan's working :-D Now to mount it as a vent.

 

[MikeD-C05]

You can use the back usb port if you don't want to see the cable in front of your receiver hanging down.

 

[ianai]

yeah, that's the plan. I was just testing it out on the front. I'm going to dig out some tools and pull out the entertainment center. I'm excited, feeling nice and geeky this afternoon having used some spare computer parts to rig a solution :-D

 

[KAB]

I see the dog gate in the background. Hopefully it isn't big enough to get it's nose in the fan.

 

[ianai]

Hehe, no. Actually, both dogs are well big enough to do so, but the fan literally sat there for twenty seconds. Just testing it via the front port :-D