Warner, Fox, Disney to Launch Streaming Sports Joint Venture

[Mike0616]

On the new sports pack, any word on a DVR? Wife is a tOSU fan and I am Ga Tech & UGA. Lots of their games are on at same time, DVR is necessary for us.

 

[Bruce]

On the new sports pack, any word on a DVR? Wife is a tOSU fan and I am Ga Tech & UGA. Lots of their games are on at same time, DVR is necessary for us.

The last I knew, based on rumors from the office, working on it.

If it will cost extra/add on or launch at the same time as the new service, I have no idea, since I informed them last month I still plan on retiring in May, no new assignments or much of anything from the 🐁 .

The last big rumors I heard were about Charter offering a non sports service ( announced yesterday) and another streaming only provider trying to do the same, but with locals.

The main reason why Charter could not offer locals, was they would still have to deal with the companies that own the affiliates, which would bring up the price, unlike YTTV, who only has to make the deals with the networks, which covers all.

 

[Mochuf]

And Still didn't make the Playoffs ...

I haven't actually watched a Red Wings game in quite some time now ...
EVERYTIME I turn them on, they either Give Up Goals or Lose ...
So, I'm bad luck for them.

They collapsed with a terrible stretch in March. They kinda didn't deserve to make the playoffs after that. But they did get 6 points in the last four games (all OT games). Damn, just one more point from either out of the two loses and they would have been in.

 

[Mochuf]

I'm paying $40.99 with WOW! for 300/20 (although I am getting closer to 40 down). 123.net is now in my town offering fiber. $59 for 250/250, $69 for (I think) 600/600 and $79 for 1 gig/1 gig. My wife won't approve a switch because of the price increase. WOW! has been very stable for me since when I cut the cord, I started using my own equipment. Their combined modem/whole home dvr was just sad.

So $40.99-internet, $25-Philo, $22.99-4K Netflix, $1.67 ($19.99/yr)-Peacock (BF Deal), $.99-Hulu w/ads (BF Deal), $5.83-Max w/ads ($69.99/yr). $97.47 total.

 

[Bruce]

I'm paying $40.99 with WOW! for 300/20 (although I am getting closer to 40 down). 123.net is now in my town offering fiber. $59 for 250/250, $69 for (I think) 600/600 and $79 for 1 gig/1 gig.

You must live in or close to Oakland/Macomb County, WOW always kept saying they would expand more into Wayne County ( my last house there was in Belleville), but it never seemed to happen.

My wife won't approve a switch because of the price increase. WOW! has been very stable for me since when I cut the cord, I started using my own equipment. Their combined modem/whole home dvr was just sad.

They all do, must be the software they put on it, my last combo unit with Comcast( had to use it so not to have a data cap), the signal did not seem to go past the room it was in, once I added a Netgear Nighthawk, problem was solved.

Charter modem was not much better, went thru 3 of them within our first 6 months here, once the last one failed, bought my own, it has been working fine for 3 years now.

 

[Mochuf]

You must live in or close to Oakland/Macomb County, WOW always kept saying they would expand more into Wayne County ( my last house there was in Belleville), but it never seemed to happen.

They all do, must be the software they put on it, my last combo unit with Comcast( had to use it so not to have a data cap), the signal did not seem to go past the room it was in, once I added a Netgear Nighthawk, problem was solved.

Charter modem was not much better, went thru 3 of them within our first 6 months here, once the last one failed, bought my own, it has been working fine for 3 years now.

Yes, I live in Clawson (SE Oakland County).

 

[Bruce]

Yes, I live in Clawson (SE Oakland County).

My last boss there lived in Northville, he had the choice of Comcast and WOW, would switch back and forth every time the contract was up to keep his bill low.

I use to dream of having two providers so I could do the same, still wish for it here.

 

[Bruce]

Fubo has a Court date, August 7, 2024, in their attempt to stop the new Hulu Sports service.

There is no way Fubo will be successful, does that mean DirecTV/Dish/Comcast/Charter/etc can bring a lawsuit against Google/Alphabet Inc, since they are losing so many subscribers, say it is because YTTV is too inexpensive?

 

[ncted]

Fubo has a Court date, August 7, 2024, in their attempt to stop the new Hulu Sports service.

There is no way Fubo will be successful, does that mean DirecTV/Dish/Comcast/Charter/etc can bring a lawsuit against Google/Alphabet Inc, since they are losing so many subscribers, say it is because YTTV is too inexpensive?

Well, there is a competitive advantage that Disney has in owning sports channels and the distribution method that will be competing with Fubo. I'm no lawyer, but that seems unfair somehow, not that anti-trust enforcement has been a thing in a few decades or anything. Now, regular Hulu Live would also seem to have the same advantage, but it is priced similarly to competing offerings, so there isn't a basis for a complaint. I don't expect Fubo will be successful, but I guess we'll see.

 

[navychop]

EVERYTIME I turn them on, they either Give Up Goals or Lose ...
So, I'm bad luck for them.

So long as you recognize that.

-And they don’t have your real name!

 

[Bruce]

Well, there is a competitive advantage that Disney has in owning sports channels and the distribution method that will be competing with Fubo.

Except this new sports service was created to replace per sub fees lost due to cord cutting.

Out of that $40-50 a month charge , each company will be paid for the channel supplied, for example, the per sub fee for ESPN is about $9 (ESPN 2 is about $2) , Disney (or Fox/Warner) is not offering the channels to the new service at a discount.

Fubo would have a case if Disney (and the others) was offering the channel(s) to the new service at a discount, but they are not doing that because they do not wish to peeve off the other providers and protect themselves from Lawsuits.

I'm no lawyer, but that seems unfair somehow, not that anti-trust enforcement has been a thing in a few decades or anything.

Fubo also said it was unfair that they were forced to carry Disney’s other channels to get ESPN, this is Disney’s product, they can sell it anyway they want, if Fubo did not like the deal, could of walked away.

Charter was able to make a better deal with Disney last year, but they have a lot more power.

The other reason Fubo is mad, Disney was a major investor in Fubo, that stopped because Disney then knew Fubo was not going to make it.

Now, regular Hulu Live would also seem to have the same advantage, but it is priced similarly to competing offerings, so there isn't a basis for a complaint. I don't expect Fubo will be successful, but I guess we'll see.

Hulu Live is about to have some major changes, YTTV has won, Hulu Live only has 4.6 Million and actually lost subs in 2023, YTTV is now over 8 Million reported, there is a rumor it gained another almost 1 million subs in 1st Quarter 2024.

If true, it has then over taken Dish and Sling together, pretty good for a service that is only about 7 years old.

 

[savarese04]

Except this new sports service was created to replace per sub fees lost due to cord cutting.

Out of that $40-50 a month charge , each company will be paid for the channel supplied, for example, the per sub fee for ESPN is about $9 (ESPN 2 is about $2) , Disney (or Fox/Warner) is not offering the channels to the new service at a discount.

Fubo would have a case if Disney (and the others) was offering the channel(s) to the new service at a discount, but they are not doing that because they do not wish to peeve off the other providers and protect themselves from Lawsuits.

Fubo also said it was unfair that they were forced to carry Disney’s other channels to get ESPN, this is Disney’s product, they can sell it anyway they want, if Fubo did not like the deal, could of walked away.

Charter was able to make a better deal with Disney last year, but they have a lot more power.

The other reason Fubo is mad, Disney was a major investor in Fubo, that stopped because Disney then knew Fubo was not going to make it.

Hulu Live is about to have some major changes, YTTV has won, Hulu Live only has 4.6 Million and actually lost subs in 2023, YTTV is now over 8 Million reported, there is a rumor it gained another almost 1 million subs in 1st Quarter 2024.

If true, it has then over taken Dish and Sling together, pretty good for a service that is only about 7 years old.

Are you implying that Hulu is gonna go sports only and that’s going to be the name of the new product?

 

[Bruce]

Are you implying that Hulu is gonna go sports only

No, saying they are trying to figure out what to do with Hulu Live, I cannot say more.

and that’s going to be the name of the new product?

Hulu Sports is the rumored name of the new service, but there are other names they are thinking about.

We will soon find out since the planned launch is about 4 months away, late August.

 

[ncted]

Except this new sports service was created to replace per sub fees lost due to cord cutting.

Out of that $40-50 a month charge , each company will be paid for the channel supplied, for example, the per sub fee for ESPN is about $9 (ESPN 2 is about $2) , Disney (or Fox/Warner) is not offering the channels to the new service at a discount.

Fubo would have a case if Disney (and the others) was offering the channel(s) to the new service at a discount, but they are not doing that because they do not wish to peeve off the other providers and protect themselves from Lawsuits.

Fubo also said it was unfair that they were forced to carry Disney’s other channels to get ESPN, this is Disney’s product, they can sell it anyway they want, if Fubo did not like the deal, could of walked away.

Charter was able to make a better deal with Disney last year, but they have a lot more power.

The other reason Fubo is mad, Disney was a major investor in Fubo, that stopped because Disney then knew Fubo was not going to make it.

Hulu Live is about to have some major changes, YTTV has won, Hulu Live only has 4.6 Million and actually lost subs in 2023, YTTV is now over 8 Million reported, there is a rumor it gained another almost 1 million subs in 1st Quarter 2024.

If true, it has then over taken Dish and Sling together, pretty good for a service that is only about 7 years old.

So, Disney is creating a service that directly competes with a customer's service at a lower price (for now), using product packages that Disney won't sell to Fubo or almost anyone else, after withdrawing financial support for the Fubo. Additionally, they are colluding with supposed competitors in the media space to create the competing service in the first place. This may be all legal these days, but I can't imagine why people don't trust large companies anymore. I'll be curious to see if this is successful in saving ESPN, or if it will continue to survive only because Disney's parks revenue is so high.

 

[Bruce]

So, Disney is creating a service that directly competes with a customer's service at a lower price (for now),

Again, there are a few services that are less expensive then Fubo, that pay the same per sub fee that Fubo does, should Fubo start a lawsuit against Sling, YTTV or Hulu Live because of that?

This has been in the planning stage since Oct. 2023 ( I was hinting about it then, when it was just Disney and Fox, Warner came on later), Warner, Fox and Disney’s Lawyers have already looked this over to make sure it has not violated any rules/laws/anti-trust violations.

using product packages that Disney won't sell to Fubo or almost anyone else, after withdrawing financial support for the Fubo.

Fubo did not have to take the deal Disney was offering, who has the right to sell their product at whatever rate it wishes.

By the way, Comcast, Charter and DirecTV pay a less per sub fee then those who have much smaller subscriber count, is that fair, should Fubo sue them.

Lastly, Fubo has some of these extra Disney Channels in the higher tiers, they were not forced to have them in the lower tier, same type of deal Charter made.

I'll be curious to see if this is successful in saving ESPN,

ESPN is still profitable. but I also wonder for how long, every year they lose more and more per sub fees, sports (except Football) is about to get hit hard, MLB is the first to feel it, when the last World Series averaged 4 Million Households, while a in-season Sunday Night NFL game is twice that, shows MLB does not deserve that high contract.

or if it will continue to survive only because Disney's parks revenue is so high.

This is not just Disney hurting, they all are, all channels lost per sub fees, 5 million more in 2023 ( 30 Million total), then advertising rates are way down ( they are thankful it is a presidential election year to recoup a lot of that).

Plus the start up costs of the streaming services, but those losses happen whenever you start a new service, even in the past, where it took Netflix and DirecTV 6 years before their first profitable quarter, Dish and Amazon 9 years.

But, by the end of 2025, expect Disney+ to be profitable ( should be by the end of 2024) and Paramount+, while Paid Live TV will lose another 10-12 Million subscribers, so the money woes will continue for all of them, since they own channels.

But the most significant thing about sports on TV, in 2017, DirecTV Satellite (who also has all those sports channels, including RSNs), had 22 Million subs, now (including Uverse, DirecTV by Internet and Stream) about 10.7 Million.

YTTV, which started in 2017, with not as many sports channels, over 8 Million, Hulu Live over 4.6 Million, Fubo, with the sports channels, 1.6 Million.

 

[Juan]

So, Disney is creating a service that directly competes with a customer's service at a lower price (for now), using product packages that Disney won't sell to Fubo or almost anyone else, after withdrawing financial support for the Fubo. Additionally, they are colluding with supposed competitors in the media space to create the competing service in the first place. This may be all legal these days, but I can't imagine why people don't trust large companies anymore. I'll be curious to see if this is successful in saving ESPN, or if it will continue to survive only because Disney's parks revenue is so high.

Wait till you see the price

 

[ncted]

This has been in the planning stage since Oct. 2023 ( I was hinting about it then, when it was just Disney and Fox, Warner came on later), Warner, Fox and Disney’s Lawyers have already looked this over to make sure it has not violated any rules/laws/anti-trust violations.

Like I said, I am not a lawyer. I'm just pointing out how it looks. It looks like Disney is using their market position in the stratum of content creation to give themselves an advantage over at least one competitor in the stratum of content delivery. A judge will probably say Disney can do that, no matter how the anti-trust laws were written. That is just the world we live in. Still reminds me a bit too much of how Standard Oil used to operate pipelines back in the day though.

I am not against Disney creating this service. I am just saying Fubo's argument makes sense to me, even if the laws that may allow it do not.

 

[NashGuy]

No, saying they are trying to figure out what to do with Hulu Live, I cannot say more.

Hulu Sports is the rumored name of the new service, but there are other names they are thinking about.

We will soon find out since the planned launch is about 4 months away, late August.

I've long thought that Hulu with Live TV might get shut down at the point when ESPN it its entirety becomes available as a standalone DTC streaming service. Because ESPN is the original "killer app" of the basic cable bundle. Once you yank that out and sell it a la carte, the whole thing really starts to unravel.

I'm sure Hulu Live has given Disney a lot of useful data in terms of consumer viewing preferences among competitors' channels but I doubt that it's actually generated all that much incremental profit for them. And as you say, it's clear now that Google has won the vMVPD wars. YouTube TV is victorious.

Another reason to give up on Hulu Live is the messiness of trying to somehow shoehorn it into the Disney+ app, where the rest of Hulu is heading (although it remains to be seen if Hulu will at some point cease to exist as its own standalone app). Although I did notice last week a report saying that live FAST-style virtual channels are apparently coming to Disney+, e.g. a Marvel channel, a Star Wars channel, a Disney classics channel, etc.

I suspect the live channel guide that's coming to Disney+ will eventually house the various Disney-owned linear broadcast and cable channels. A subscription to "Disney+ with Hulu" (as it might be called at some point) would have your live local ABC station, plus FX, FXX, Freeform, Disney Channel, Disney Jr., NatGeo, NatGeo Wild, ABC News Live, and the other basic cable nets that are 100% owned by Disney. Maybe there would be a Hulu Originals channel too. And if you also subbed to ESPN (as a discounted bundle price, natch), then the ESPN linear channels would appear in the Disney+ channel guide too. No need for a cloud DVR as everything would be available for on-demand replay after the initial linear airing, either with or without ads depending on your plan (although sports may always have ads, as is the case now).

That, to me, feels like where Disney is probably headed. And while the cost of sports will mean that ESPN will have to be offered as its own separate service (which can be optionally bundled with Disney+), I'd say it's more likely than not that they will eventually kill off Hulu as its own standalone service, similar in a way to how Paramount has killed off Showtime and just made it a content hub inside of Paramount+. Maybe you'll be able to choose between "Disney+ Basic" and "Disney+ with Hulu" for a few bucks more, or OTOH, maybe all Disney+ subscriptions will automatically come with the Hulu content hub inside. But if that does happen, look for Disney to make cuts to what they spend on Hulu content, shrinking its library down: fewer Hulu Originals, fewer FX Originals, cheaper ABC content, Freeform getting killed off completely (or, more likely, just becoming a rerun channel), fewer classic TV series licensed from other studios, etc.