WFAA HD Dallas - Downrezzed?

[drsiebling]

In watching the Lost finale last night on the recently uplinked WFAA digital station, it seemed that I was viewing a SD broadcast that was simply in widescreen. Has anyone checked bitrates or resolution on this station? When I was able to pick up WFAA Digital OTA, it was a very crisp and clear picture. The new Dish HD picture is crap.

 

[bjersing]

Well, I am sure glad I just spent $299 (on the VIP622) to get even a worse picture from WFAA than I got before with a OTA (with my 942). They are just about the only US digital station broadcasting in VHF rather than UHF and they are very low power. Thank the stars that MNF is moving to ESPN.

 

[drsiebling]

agreed... it's nice to be able to watch WFAA without the signal constantly breaking up as it did via OTA, but the channel is clearly being presented in a resolution far lower than that which constitutes HD. If I had to guess from the way the picture looks, I would say we are viewing a 480P signal.

 

[caam1]

WFAA is transmitting at their full licensed power. VHF digital is always transmitted at lower power levels than analog, and much lower power than UHF. I live about 25 miles NW of Cedar Hill and normally get a 95% signal with an outdoor antenna. According to FCC signal contour maps, the WFAA digital signal should come very close to duplicating their analog coverage (about 65-70 miles). As far as I know WFAA is still transmitting 1080i, and I have seen various problems with all of the the E* HD 1080i locals. It appears that E* is down converting them to some lower resolution and frame rate. I almost always notice a video "stuttering" and various audio problems that are not present in the OTA signals. I have found that even the CBS HD channel on E* is much better than the MPEG-4 locals. I would guess that E* is still having problems with their MPEG-4 encoding. The DFW Fox doesn't seem to have as many problems because it transmits 720p.

 

[drsiebling]

WFAA is transmitting at their full licensed power. VHF digital is always transmitted at lower power levels than analog, and much lower power than UHF. I live about 25 miles NW of Cedar Hill and normally get a 95% signal with an outdoor antenna. According to FCC signal contour maps, the WFAA digital signal should come very close to duplicating their analog coverage (about 65-70 miles). As far as I know WFAA is still transmitting 1080i, and I have seen various problems with all of the the E* HD 1080i locals. It appears that E* is down converting them to some lower resolution and frame rate. I almost always notice a video "stuttering" and various audio problems that are not present in the OTA signals. I have found that even the CBS HD channel on E* is much better than the MPEG-4 locals. I would guess that E* is still having problems with their MPEG-4 encoding. The DFW Fox doesn't seem to have as many problems because it transmits 720p.

everything you just mentioned points to why I was so hopeful that the Dish HD LiL uplinks would be a good thing. I'm not getting serious dropouts, but the picture quality is terrible. So, all in all, it is a decidedly mixed bag.

 

[osu1991]

Isn't all the ABC HD programming 720p. If WFAA is sending out 1080i could they be causing some of the problems everyone is having. I might have to take my hd tuner to our ranch in southern Oklahoma and see if I can get anything. I receive WFAA and 4 or 5 other Dallas stations in the evening and morning hours.

 

[alleykat26]

I thought that Channel 11 was the only channel currently sending 1080i to Dish. Supposedly, that's why their channel shows the most "stuttering" during motion as Dish converts it to 720p. I'm sure ABC is 720p not sure of FOX and NBC

 

[Jim5506]

CBS,NBC,PBS are 1080i; FOX, ABC, ESPN, ESPN2 are 720p from the network.

 

[david in texas]

In regards to Lost on WFAA/Dish, does anyone else get the audio dropouts when they do the "boing" noise and go to commericials and title screen?

That's always the best part but for some reason since getting my 622 I do not get that. FWIW this also happens on 24.

Thanks
David

 

[sprintcarcrazy]

From what I hear from a guy at our local CBS station, Dish is not wanting to pay for and will not upgrade the fiber speed for local uplinks. So they are trying to push HD over a line with bandwidth not being able to carry it. They greatly underestimated the cost to buy the amount of bandwidth needed on the uplinks to supply HD.

 

[txfeinbergs]

Honestly, I thought Lost looked great on the HD-Lil. My problem is with Fox constantly having Audio dropouts and screen freezes with the 622 for some reason. I don't seem to see this problem while watching Lost or the other channels.

 

[HDTVFanAtic]

They are just about the only US digital station broadcasting in VHF rather than UHF and they are very low power.

An absolutely clueless statement with 2 major factual errors negating any other statements the poster might make.

 

[Barry Erick]

Well, I am sure glad I just spent $299 (on the VIP622) to get even a worse picture from WFAA than I got before with a OTA (with my 942). They are just about the only US digital station broadcasting in VHF rather than UHF and they are very low power. Thank the stars that MNF is moving to ESPN.

Know what thy talks. I work at a station, whose digitals are VHF, and while most are UHF, there are many V's. With that said, VHF does not have to have anywhere near what it takes VHF to get a signal out. For instance, our NTSC countour map has to be matched in signal strength by the full power digital. Our full power NTSC UHF station is 3.280kw. Our VHF is 30kw. THe VHF is actually a better signal than the NTSC one. Look at analog powers for UHF and VHF and you will see the same relationship on power. It takes much more to get the UHF signal out.

One problem we had, however, is that stores would sell UHF only digital receive antennas, and people could not receive us. Now, does dish use UHF only receive antennas at its pikup site, or do they know what they are doing?

 

[HDTVFanAtic]

Now, does dish ....... know what they are doing?

Well, we all know the answer to that

 

[drsiebling]

The VHF UHF problem with WFAA has been well documented in the DFW area. For whatever reason, their signal has been more problematic than the other digital signals in town. Either way, I was hoping that having their HD feed available over satellite would solve these reception problems - - it has. However, the crux of the problem now is that Dish seems to be delivering the signal at a vastly inferior bitrate / resolution. To my eyes, the WFAA signal delivered over Satellite, appears to be the equivalent of a medium quality 480i DVD.