I surfed through part's of King Kong last night and it is right up there with the best...
What is the Best BD or HDDVD you have seen for PQ?
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Do you need 1080p to REALLY appreciate how good a particular movie's picture is, or can you at least see "what all the hype is about" with 1080i or 720p?
I watch my movies on a 720p projector and they look stellar; on the 1080p LCD I have, I can't say I can tell a lot of difference between 1080p and 1080i; although for certain the HD movies (of either persuasion) always look better than the compressed stuff from Dish, but that also differs depending on the channel and on the specific title I am watching.
Nicely done HD/BD movie transfers will be noticably better on a nice 720p screen than their DVD counterparts.
To notice the quality increase going from 720p to 1080p you have to stop watching the movie and watch only for those differences. You might get lucky...
Diogen.
to add what has not ben said....eagles down under...stunning!!! and dont forget parts (not all) of planet earth
Let's expand this a bit. Along with the BEST you've seen for PQ, what's the WORST movie you have seen for PQ?
This is an interesting question topic. Having BD now for a year (as well as HDDVD) I would have to say an easier question is what BD movie or title is not up to BD expectations. That list would be quite small. The rest seem to be equal and in the category of best visual and audio for home theater.
The second question often raised by those on the outside looking in is "Is there really an improvement between 1080i x 1920 and 1080p x 1920?" This could be a wash of opinions in a blind test since if done right all 1080i should be converted to 1080p for display on a 1080 x 1920 native display. Obviously, the larger the screen the more important having the top end on specification needs to be.
Since many will still have the native 720p x 1280 displays and are wondering if there is a significant difference going to a 1080p x 1920 monitor sourcing BD for both and the answer there is absolutely YES! I have tested LCD and DLP 720p projectors on a 92" screen and compared to a 1080p x 1920 native DLP projector and the image differece is stunning.
While not a dealer I have acquired a variety of display devices, mostly in the front projector class so I believe I can pass an honest assessment in this case. The PJ's I now own are:
Panasonic LCD 720p
Dell mini 720p x 1280 DLP
Dwin TV3e 720p
BenQ 10000w 1080p x1920
I only have two flat panel LCD HDTV's and one is 720 x 1280 17" while the other is 1200 x 1920 24"
I think the real kicker in the debate or question, is knowing that if you are looking at a source that is offering 1080p x 1920 and watching on a 720p monitor, that you simply have room to grow. You are not yet seeing all that you could be seeing.
I'll never forget the first movie I had playing when I installed the 1080p x 1920 display and HD DVD player. It was Phantom of the Opera. My wife walked into the HT room, being used to watching movies daily on our Dwin TV3e and her jaw dropped with astonishment. It surprised me because I didn't expect her to be so stunned at the quality improvement. The day before we were watching the same HD DVD but on the Dwin (720P) now on the BenQ (1080p)
The second question often raised by those on the outside looking in is "Is there really an improvement between 1080i x 1920 and 1080p x 1920?" This could be a wash of opinions in a blind test since if done right all 1080i should be converted to 1080p for display on a 1080 x 1920 native display. Obviously, the larger the screen the more important having the top end on specification needs to be.
Since many will still have the native 720p x 1280 displays and are wondering if there is a significant difference going to a 1080p x 1920 monitor sourcing BD for both and the answer there is absolutely YES! I have tested LCD and DLP 720p projectors on a 92" screen and compared to a 1080p x 1920 native DLP projector and the image differece is stunning.
While not a dealer I have acquired a variety of display devices, mostly in the front projector class so I believe I can pass an honest assessment in this case. The PJ's I now own are:
Panasonic LCD 720p
Dell mini 720p x 1280 DLP
Dwin TV3e 720p
BenQ 10000w 1080p x1920
I only have two flat panel LCD HDTV's and one is 720 x 1280 17" while the other is 1200 x 1920 24"
I think the real kicker in the debate or question, is knowing that if you are looking at a source that is offering 1080p x 1920 and watching on a 720p monitor, that you simply have room to grow. You are not yet seeing all that you could be seeing.
I'll never forget the first movie I had playing when I installed the 1080p x 1920 display and HD DVD player. It was Phantom of the Opera. My wife walked into the HT room, being used to watching movies daily on our Dwin TV3e and her jaw dropped with astonishment. It surprised me because I didn't expect her to be so stunned at the quality improvement. The day before we were watching the same HD DVD but on the Dwin (720P) now on the BenQ (1080p)
I believe the difference in picture quality comes primaraly from specs other than resolution.
Today 1080p displays have better specs than 720p and therefore look better.
When the 1080p projectors were just out (no differences but resolution), I've seen a
handfull of shoutouts. A SIM2 720p was beating every single 1080p by a mile...
Diogen.
Today 1080p displays have better specs than 720p and therefore look better.
When the 1080p projectors were just out (no differences but resolution), I've seen a
handfull of shoutouts. A SIM2 720p was beating every single 1080p by a mile...
Diogen.
Still does beat most of them. I was sad to part with mine. Nothing like a 3chip DLP.
S~
When it comes to cartoons, many are often impressed with BD cartoon movies because of the improved signal to noise ratio and the true 8 bit color with sharpness offered in the 1080p x 1920. The difference is impressive as the detail factor is somewhat removed from the equarion since detail is just not present. This allows you to concentrate on color noise and color gradient.
When it comes to digital video there seems to always be room for improvement. Since we are currently fixed at 1020 pixels on the top end of resolution in Full HDTV, where do we turn to improve quality until native displays greater than 1920 enter the scene? Ine area is bit depth. Most BD players have been processing the 8bit color space on the disks with 10 bit players. Most of us with budget concious purchasing have 10 bit color space processing. Recently, I went to look at the Pioneer Elite Player to see if there was any improvement when spending 3x the price for a 12 bit player. In comparing (in the store) to another system at 10 bit there was a slight edge quality difference but the demos were on Pioneer Elite 50" monitors. I use a 92" DLP front projector. The Pioneer had better blacks than my PJ but I don't think it had as good detail. Now, Sony has just announced the latest in this arena of PQ improvement the 14 bit color space processing.
Few have seen this next stage in processing but one things for certain, it's cost will likely be an order of magnetude higher to have the best of the best.
What I find interesting is today, everyone can make huge improvements by simply having a display that is 1080p x 1920 over a 720p native display, use HDMI 1.3 vs. RGB for transfer. Use Master audio analog decoded in player vs. DD5.1 over fiber optic cable for a base price and be 98% of the best of the best. Then to get close to 100% you need to spend 3-5 times the budget. Is it worth it? Heck some would believe that a 720p playing BD is worth it.
The problem of dealing in a system that limits your main picture resolution in pixel depth with a lessor native display is you are dealing with not seeing all that the source will provide. In the case of color bit depth that is already higher than the disk and adding to that, the improvement is questionable. Seeing is believing and that is the only way I would buy such a technology.
In summary a 1080p x 1920 over a 720p x 1280 native display is a no brainer upgrade. A 12 or 14 bit color depth player over a 10 bit when the native is 8 bit, needs to be carefully evaluated in the home before spending that kind of additional money for quality improvement.
When it comes to digital video there seems to always be room for improvement. Since we are currently fixed at 1020 pixels on the top end of resolution in Full HDTV, where do we turn to improve quality until native displays greater than 1920 enter the scene? Ine area is bit depth. Most BD players have been processing the 8bit color space on the disks with 10 bit players. Most of us with budget concious purchasing have 10 bit color space processing. Recently, I went to look at the Pioneer Elite Player to see if there was any improvement when spending 3x the price for a 12 bit player. In comparing (in the store) to another system at 10 bit there was a slight edge quality difference but the demos were on Pioneer Elite 50" monitors. I use a 92" DLP front projector. The Pioneer had better blacks than my PJ but I don't think it had as good detail. Now, Sony has just announced the latest in this arena of PQ improvement the 14 bit color space processing.
Few have seen this next stage in processing but one things for certain, it's cost will likely be an order of magnetude higher to have the best of the best.
What I find interesting is today, everyone can make huge improvements by simply having a display that is 1080p x 1920 over a 720p native display, use HDMI 1.3 vs. RGB for transfer. Use Master audio analog decoded in player vs. DD5.1 over fiber optic cable for a base price and be 98% of the best of the best. Then to get close to 100% you need to spend 3-5 times the budget. Is it worth it? Heck some would believe that a 720p playing BD is worth it.
The problem of dealing in a system that limits your main picture resolution in pixel depth with a lessor native display is you are dealing with not seeing all that the source will provide. In the case of color bit depth that is already higher than the disk and adding to that, the improvement is questionable. Seeing is believing and that is the only way I would buy such a technology.
In summary a 1080p x 1920 over a 720p x 1280 native display is a no brainer upgrade. A 12 or 14 bit color depth player over a 10 bit when the native is 8 bit, needs to be carefully evaluated in the home before spending that kind of additional money for quality improvement.
I'll still argue that not all HD transfers are the same; and some films just look amazing in HD, whether BD or HD DVD; and others... well, just look good. Of course, I know that the original filming plays a role; as well as the quality of the master used for an HD transfer. Case in point -- Battlestar Galactica Mini-series on HD DVD looks good, but due to the grainy way they filmed everything in it, it just looks ok. Doesn't blow you away.
An example where there is a huge improvement.... I own three copies of the original Stargate film; the original DVD: the director's cut DVD, and the BD version. I also have it archived from Dish HD. The original DVD was not even anamorphic; it looked like crap. Big black bars. The director's cut was much better; but still nothing to write home about. The BD version was excellent -- it was refreshing seeing the film the way it was intended to be seen. Oh, and Dish's version.... somewhere between the DVD and the BD. But nowhere as good as the BD.
An example where there is a huge improvement.... I own three copies of the original Stargate film; the original DVD: the director's cut DVD, and the BD version. I also have it archived from Dish HD. The original DVD was not even anamorphic; it looked like crap. Big black bars. The director's cut was much better; but still nothing to write home about. The BD version was excellent -- it was refreshing seeing the film the way it was intended to be seen. Oh, and Dish's version.... somewhere between the DVD and the BD. But nowhere as good as the BD.
Very good details... PQ and Sound are excellent... (these are a couple of my favorite movies... Might be move over Serenity for awhile )
)Ratatouille and Cars look excellent. Out of live action fare, my favorites for PQ include No Country For Old Men, Hellboy and Bladerunner: The Final Cut. Transformers looks great too. Still haven't received my Kill Bill discs in the mail yet.
A couple comments to add for previously discussed topics in this thread: Regarding 720p-based televisions, I agree users of such televisions will see a noticeable improvement on Blu-ray over DVD, especially if the monitor is decent sized one. Color quality is improved.
There is a pretty good benefit in having a true 1080p TV, particularly a 120Hz model that properly supports 1080p/24. I have a 52" Sony Bravia XBR4 monitor. It's pretty easy to see the difference in resolution between 720p and 1080p material on that kind of TV. Anything below 40" and the differences may be significantly more difficult to spot (unless you're sitting pretty close to the display).
Regarding why some BDs have great PQ while others stink, much of it has to do with how the HD transfer was prepared. The worst looking Blu-ray discs are tyipcally sourced from old HD telecine masters originally created for DVD release. The BDs with the best PQ use modern film scanning and digital intermediate methods for creating the video transfer. Newer movies almost always use that approach now that thousands of movie theaters are installing digital cinema equipment.
On original source bit rates, most digital intermediates at least have a 10-bit (4:2:2) digital intermediate. Some go even higher than that. 2K D Cinema uses higher color bit depths. Video on BDs gets dumped to 8 bit (4:2:0) regardless of Blu-ray and a growing number of televisions being able to support the Deep Color specification. BD authors for now aren't going to burn up extra bandwidth if few customers will see any benefit from it for years. Maybe in another year or two we'll finally start seeing some Deep Color BDs.
A couple comments to add for previously discussed topics in this thread: Regarding 720p-based televisions, I agree users of such televisions will see a noticeable improvement on Blu-ray over DVD, especially if the monitor is decent sized one. Color quality is improved.
There is a pretty good benefit in having a true 1080p TV, particularly a 120Hz model that properly supports 1080p/24. I have a 52" Sony Bravia XBR4 monitor. It's pretty easy to see the difference in resolution between 720p and 1080p material on that kind of TV. Anything below 40" and the differences may be significantly more difficult to spot (unless you're sitting pretty close to the display).
Regarding why some BDs have great PQ while others stink, much of it has to do with how the HD transfer was prepared. The worst looking Blu-ray discs are tyipcally sourced from old HD telecine masters originally created for DVD release. The BDs with the best PQ use modern film scanning and digital intermediate methods for creating the video transfer. Newer movies almost always use that approach now that thousands of movie theaters are installing digital cinema equipment.
On original source bit rates, most digital intermediates at least have a 10-bit (4:2:2) digital intermediate. Some go even higher than that. 2K D Cinema uses higher color bit depths. Video on BDs gets dumped to 8 bit (4:2:0) regardless of Blu-ray and a growing number of televisions being able to support the Deep Color specification. BD authors for now aren't going to burn up extra bandwidth if few customers will see any benefit from it for years. Maybe in another year or two we'll finally start seeing some Deep Color BDs.
