What is the Fate of LOw Power Analog Ch.6 for (Franken) FM

Peter Parker

Peter Parker

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I lost track of this. Here in DC we have such a station that serves the hispanic community. I am just wondering if there is an end date for this or whether the FCC has decided to continue to allow their existence
 
harshness

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I lost track of this. Here in DC we have such a station that serves the hispanic community. I am just wondering if there is an end date for this or whether the FCC has decided to continue to allow their existence
Have you contacted the station? They are probably the best source for what their future plans are.

If they refuse to help you, you can check the FCC database for any filings they have made.

The FCC doesn't decide what the station is going to do. They do have a keen interest in what the station cannot do. They only provide the guidelines within which they must operate and the decision-making tool the FCC uses is the filing. That the FCC seems particularly slow at enforcing some of their rules isn't something you can rely on.

The most recent FCC language that I could find about LPTV analog is this from the FCC website:
FCC website said:
The FCC has established a new deadline for the termination of all analog operations by LPTV stations. That date is dependent upon the completion of the Commission’s incentive auction, which involves a repacking process that will displace some LPTV stations. Therefore, the Commission has determined to allow LPTV stations to wait until the incentive auction is complete before transitioning to digital. LPTV stations will have 12 months from the completion of the 39-month post-incentive auction transition (51 months from the completion of the incentive auction) to cease analog operations and begin operating in digital, at which point analog television will no longer exist in the United States.

The auction results were announced on April 13, 2017 so 51 months from there (July 13, 2021?) would be the point where analog TV broadcast must cease.
 
Peter Parker

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This isa situation that affexts more than one station. The FCC has quitea bit to say about whether the use of channel 6 as an anlog rasio station will continue.
 
harshness

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This isa situation that affexts more than one station.
If analog broadcast is prohibited in the TV band, it sort of stands to reason that FM will have to give them some guard room. While the bandwidth of FM is about 200kHz, they can't run it right up to 87.9MHz using the fact that the TV audio carrier was there under analog. If there is a channel 6 TV station, I would assume (perhaps incorrectly) that FM below 88.something would have to give way.

In the case that you site, it appears that there won't be any VHF low among the auction participants so the door may still be open in that particular market.
 
Peter Parker

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I am not sure that you understand the situation Harshness. The FCC was considering letting this unique situation with Channel 6 continue and let the operators of such stations continue to broadcast an analog audio signal at 87.7 and an out of synch video signal.

Having said there are some folks in the radio business that want the current channel 6 to get carved up into additional FM Stations with license preference being given to current AM operators.

It would seem likely thought that whatever the FCC decides it will apply to all markets with an existing analog LPTV station at channel 6. Our situation is just one of many.

In any event I was just hoping that someone might know the status of an FCC decision in this matter.
 
harshness

harshness

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In any event I was just hoping that someone might know the status of an FCC decision in this matter.
I'm betting it isn't even being contemplated at this point in time.

When the band is closer to being free of analog broadcast signals and if there is still interest is parasitically borrowing bandwidth from a TV channel, I would expect to see someone come up with an idea on how to handle it and make a filing.

I doubt that the FCC has it in mind to require anyone who ends up with RF6 to narrow their band to accommodate a small FM radio station (though more bizarre things have happened).
 
Peter Parker

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Anyway..... Does anyone know if the FCC has madea ny decisions about the fate of analog LPTV on ch. 6?
 
Peter Parker

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I am likely the only one looking for news on this but apparently the latest deadline for such stations to go digital is in 2021. The operators of these "Franken FM"stations are still trying to get the FCC to let them continue for a longer time (if not indefinitely) and those who want to turn 87.7 or the entire Ch. 6 space over to FM (with or without preference being given to AM operators) are lobbying against it.
 
Jim5506

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We have a sub-channel that carries FM music.

Not receivable on an FM radio but when you tune that channel.
 
Peter Parker

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We have a sub-channel that carries FM music.

Not receivable on an FM radio but when you tune that channel.


It only works on analog Channel 6 because the audio is broadcast at just below the FM dial---though many FM receivers can get it. It will not work at on a subchannel as that it only exists for digital broadcasts and the audio is encoded differently there.
 
harshness

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The operators of these "Franken FM"stations are still trying to get the FCC to let them continue for a longer time (if not indefinitely) and those who want to turn 87.7 or the entire Ch. 6 space over to FM (with or without preference being given to AM operators) are lobbying against it.
Assigning RF6 to AM makes no sense as none of the equipment is set up to deal with the different band and its significantly different reception requirements. Since we're only talking about room for a handful stations, what's the point of getting all worked up? The concept of squatting isn't particularly acceptable anywhere else.

It is much easier to move a 200kHz radio station to streaming than it is to move a 6MHz TV station and it certainly isn't fair to saddle someone with a shrunken bandwidth.
 
Peter Parker

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No one has discussed assigning Ch 6 to AM. The AM owners want all or part of it to be used as FM with preference given to current AM operators. As for getting worked up as fa ras I know only those AM operators are. I was just asking where it stands now----and I got an answer elsewhere and shared it here on the off chanve that anyone else cares.
 
harshness

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Given how many devices (wireless phones, clock radios, etc.) no longer (or never did) support AM, I can see the attraction to moving to FM.

My market has a few community access (not to be confused with "public radio") stations (one sits on two different frequencies) and is introducing another later this year through the cable access TV facility. All are in the FM band. We're kinda radio station poor though so it is difficult for me to understand what a real logjam on the radio dial is like.
 
N5XZS

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You may not realize some other parts of world use FM and digital radio DRM use 76 to 88 MHz band. And the old Soviet FM radio band was used in the old cold war days. You may not realize they used to send analog SECAM video in 88 to 108 MHz band!:eeek
 
harshness

harshness

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You may not realize some other parts of world use FM and digital radio DRM use 76 to 88 MHz band. And the old Soviet FM radio band was used in the old cold war days. You may not realize they used to send analog SECAM video in 88 to 108 MHz band!:eeek
I feel confident that we can restrict this discussion to US broadcasts and the band allocation therein.

In the US, RF TV channel 6 owns the whole pie from 82 to 88 MHz and DTV pretty much kills any hope than a radio station can squat on frequencies within that range (assuming a TV station is licensed to use RF6 in that area). The other side of the question is that many of the newer digital radios (including my wireless phone) can't tune below 88.1 so it is becoming more and more an academic question.

Similar discussions of using low VHF TV channels for two-way radios or wireless microphones where TV stations aren't using the frequencies as been going on for a while now but a lot of that discussion is dying off as a result of the repack and the higher utilization of those channels by TV stations.
 
N5XZS

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Forgot to mention Japan is using 76 to 108 MHz FM radio ranges. I think think they phased out old VHF TV channels from 88 to 108 MHz and 174 to 215 MHz. Using UHF for TV broadcasting only and DBS Ku TV broadcasting as well too.

Don't forget our nextdoor countrys Canada and Mexico might have different plans for VHF low band.:rolleyes:
 
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navychop

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Don’t we have an agreement with Canada and Mexico to decide these things in common?


Sent from my iPhone using SatelliteGuys
 
N5XZS

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They may have the right to change as they deemed fit. Mexico tends to do this in the past. Some part of their radio band plans are somewhat different than ours. They plan on doing radio DRM wideband version for VHF low up to 100 KHz wide using multi radio sub channel with teletext like versions. "E-news" just Google up on DRM radio.:)

You will find wealth of informations on DRM+ radio.:cool:
 
Peter Parker

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Just a clarification here---but I realize threads go off in their own direction here.

This thread was not intended to discuss radio broadcasters squatting on Ch. 6. It was intended to discuss whether certain low powered analog ch 6 TV licensees will be able to continue to use that station allocation to broadcast FM sound at a frequency of 87.9 which is below some but not all radios FM dial.

Some want this to continue and some have alternative plans for 87.9 or perhaps more of what is now Ch. 6. Those people are mostly current AM operators who want an FM license.

BTW several of these "Franken FM" stations are actually fairly popular in their respective area. that is the case in both DC and Chicago.

In any event. I found the answer elsewhere and posted it in the thread. BTW there are still ANALOG operators on Ch.6 and there can be till 2021. The switch to digital did not affect them---or at least has not affected them yet.
 
harshness

harshness

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The switch to digital did not affect them---or at least has not affected them yet.
We haven't seen the final word on the post-repack TV band yet. I would imagine that if a DTV or Next Gen channel came along and needed the channel, they might well get it.
 

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