What Killed UPN and The WB TV Networks?

TMC1982

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Jun 26, 2008
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I wish that these two networks were still around because in all honesty, the CW has been floundering (thanks in large part to the stupidity of one Dawn Ostroff) from the very get so. This is odd because when I first heard about the creation of the CW, I assumed that it would be a stronger version of two seperate networks. Meanwhile MyNetworkTV has been a non-entity.

There's a book called Season Finale: The Unexpected Rise and Fall of The WB and UPN, which I really want to read if I can find it.
This is what Wikipedia says about the WB's decline:

2003-2006: Decline
The WB Television Network - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Despite some early success, the network struggled to shift its focus from the female 12-24 demographic to the more broad 12-34 range. In 2005, The WB abandoned its trademark mascot, Michigan J. Frog, as the network's iconic emblem. David Janollari, The WB's President of Entertainment, explained in July 2005 at the network's summer 2005 press tour that the animated character "perpetuated the young-teen feel of the network, and that is not the image we want to put to our audience."

Still, the move did not seem to help the network. The period from 2003 to 2005 produced only three viable new series, One Tree Hill, Beauty and the Geek, and Supernatural (all of which have since moved to successor network The CW), and even still their ratings paled in comparison to the ratings peaks of Dawson's Creek, which had signed off in 2003. Ratings dropped for shows like Angel (which was canceled in 2004), and the network failed to launch new hit shows to take their places.

Although The WB's well-known inability to launch successful comedy series was nothing new (Reba being the sole exception), this period saw the network struggling to establish new dramas as well. High-profile failures included Birds of Prey (inspired by the Batman mythos), Tarzan, Jack & Bobby, The Mountain, Jerry Bruckheimer's Just Legal, Marta Kauffman's Related, and the Rebecca Romijn vehicle Pepper Dennis.

During the 2004-2005 season, The WB finished behind rival UPN for the first time in several years, and fell even further behind in the fall of 2005. Both networks fell behind the Spanish language network Univision in the overall 18-34 demographic.

It was estimated in 2005 that The WB was viewable by 91.66% of all households, reaching 90,282,480 houses in the United States. The WB was carried by 177 VHF and UHF stations in the U.S., counting both owned and operated and affiliated stations (the owned and operated stations were not actually operated by Warner Bros. or Time Warner; instead, Tribune owned and operated these stations, thus its stake in the network). The WB could also be seen in smaller markets on cable-only stations, many of these through The WB 100+ Station Group - available to TV markets below the number 100 in viewership as determined by Nielsen in a packaged format, with a master schedule; the addition of local advertisements and news were at the discretion of the local distributor, often a local television station or cable television provider.
 
MNTV has given up and the only thing getting me to the CW is legacy Supernatural. I read somewhere that Reba was the CW's highest rated show when they canceled it, it didn't fit into the new niche.

I don't get why news corp doesn't program MNTV with new content considering their resources, right now its basically the same as ion showing off network reruns.

It seemed like UPN was turning things around, their last year they had everybody hates chris, veronica mars and jake 2.0.
 
The only shows I watch on CW are:

Smallville
Supernatural
Vampire Diaries
Melrose place

The last one out of nostalgia for the original on Fox. Supernatural is going away after May of 2010 and Melrose place may not see spring in ratings. The Smallville show has really gone as far as it can go without becoming the full Superman show. I mean Smallville was where teenage Clark Kent lived before he became Superman. This show has spent close to a decade in this small town. It is time to either change the title or end the show. Vampire diaries has potential , but it is really just a Twilight/Dark Shadows rip off of a show.
 
The only shows I watch on CW are:
Smallville
Supernatural
Vampire Diaries
Melrose place
You do realize, I hope, that that is more than half of its offerings.

Regardless, I believe this is a bad decade to launch an over-the-air television network. The value of the American viewer's eyes is on the brink of the precipice -- indeed, it probably has already begun to plummet, and so there simply isn't a strong case to be made for investing much to bring more television entertainment to the over-the-air audience. There is a big question-mark hanging out there, now, as to whether the over-the-air audience warrants the amount of resources devoted towards producing entertainment for it, as things are now.

I think the smartest move for CW is to milk its long-standing properties (like Smallville and Supernatural) as long as they can, and try to prep its newer properties (like Vampire Diaries) for a jump to either CBS or TNT, aiming to use CW as a proving ground for some sort of "reverse commute", i.e., television series starting on subscription services (Showtime, from the "C" side of CW; HBO, TNT, TBS, etc., from the "W" side of CW) and then showing up a year or two later, on CW). They can sprinkle the schedule with some previous-years CBS shows, as well -- many of them do great in syndication, so why not syndicate to an established national network like CW, first, keeping those profits in the family?

One thing though: If they do that, they could find themselves, eventually, relegated to the same treatment as independent stations in the market. It is important to remember that satellite and cable service providers are not required to treat all local channels the same, in terms of how they are provided on the service: The service providers must present all of the local channels that invoke Must-Carry unencrypted, but the FCC has determined that they can present any of them downconverted (without that being considered material degradation). We can assume that service providers will stick with full HD presentations of the major networks, as well as the independents that present major local sports team games. For other local stations, it is a distinct possibility that they'll be relegated to downconverted-only service, and that could have a major negative impact on the viewership for such channels. So perhaps they need to keep these few original series, even if they're lame, even if they're not getting big audiences, just to keep the bandwidth allocation on satellite and cable services, which in turn helps keep their ratings for all their programming higher than it would be otherwise.

The Smallville show has really gone as far as it can go without becoming the full Superman show. I mean Smallville was where teenage Clark Kent lived before he became Superman. This show has spent close to a decade in this small town. It is time to either change the title or end the show.
With respect, that's ridiculous. Nothing can be more ill-advised than changing the title of a series mid-stride. The title of the series is the title of the series, even if the series evolves over time such that the title no longer fits as well. As long as people are still watching Smallville, it would be silly for CW to give up on it, on what? Lexicographical Purity grounds? :tux:

Vampire diaries has potential , but it is really just a Twilight/Dark Shadows rip off of a show.
Dark Shadows? Really? I cannot agree with that. And, of course, the Vampire Diaries books predate the Twilight booms by a decade, so questions about which came first are simply academic. As it is, there is no Twilight television series, so there is no "rip off" factor, anyway.
 
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IMHO,

CW is the continuation of the WB. As such it is aimed at a very tight demographic into which I, and 95% of people, do not fit.
 
You do realize, I hope, that that is more than half of its offerings.

Regardless, I believe this is a bad decade to launch an over-the-air television network. The value of the American viewer's eyes is on the brink of the precipice -- indeed, it probably has already begun to plummet, and so there simply isn't a strong case to be made for investing much to bring more television entertainment to the over-the-air audience. There is a big question-mark hanging out there, now, as to whether the over-the-air audience warrants the amount of resources devoted towards producing entertainment for it, as things are now.

I think the smartest move for CW is to milk its long-standing properties (like Smallville and Supernatural) as long as they can, and try to prep its newer properties (like Vampire Diaries) for a jump to either CBS or TNT, aiming to use CW as a proving ground for some sort of "reverse commute", i.e., television series starting on subscription services (Showtime, from the "C" side of CW; HBO, TNT, TBS, etc., from the "W" side of CW) and then showing up a year or two later, on CW). They can sprinkle the schedule with some previous-years CBS shows, as well -- many of them do great in syndication, so why not syndicate to an established national network like CW, first, keeping those profits in the family?

One thing though: If they do that, they could find themselves, eventually, relegated to the same treatment as independent stations in the market. It is important to remember that satellite and cable service providers are not required to treat all local channels the same, in terms of how they are provided on the service: The service providers must present all of the local channels that invoke Must-Carry unencrypted, but the FCC has determined that they can present any of them downconverted (without that being considered material degradation). We can assume that service providers will stick with full HD presentations of the major networks, as well as the independents that present major local sports team games. For other local stations, it is a distinct possibility that they'll be relegated to downconverted-only service, and that could have a major negative impact on the viewership for such channels. So perhaps they need to keep these few original series, even if they're lame, even if they're not getting big audiences, just to keep the bandwidth allocation on satellite and cable services, which in turn helps keep their ratings for all their programming higher than it would be otherwise.

With respect, that's ridiculous. Nothing can be more ill-advised than changing the title of a series mid-stride. The title of the series is the title of the series, even if the series evolves over time such that the title no longer fits as well. As long as people are still watching Smallville, it would be silly for CW to give up on it, on what? Lexicographical Purity grounds? :tux:

Dark Shadows? Really? I cannot agree with that. And, of course, the Vampire Diaries books predate the Twilight booms by a decade, so questions about which came first are simply academic. As it is, there is no Twilight television series, so there is no "rip off" factor, anyway.


REally you don't see Dark Shadows parallel? THe fact that the female vampire that created the main male vampire , looks just like the young teenage girl that he is lusting after? Remember how Josette looked just like Maggie Evans in DS? Barnabas longed for Maggie because she looked like Josette. Same as this young guy longs for his creator and the girl that looks just like her. AS for the Twilight comparison it is so obvious that this show was put on the air to take advantage of the Twilight euphoria of today. Regardless what book was written first, the show is being marketed to the same teenage girls who love the 2 Twilight movies.

As far as Smallville , my point is that Clark Kent was a teenager for a small time in the comics as Superboy and they have spent all the time that they can before he should of become Superman in the time line. He should already have a costume and be flying in his red underwear with matching red boots by now. After all the green arrow has his on.
 
IMHO,

CW is the continuation of the WB. As such it is aimed at a very tight demographic into which I, and 95% of people, do not fit.

This entire channel is more devoted to the young teenage groups 16 to 30 year old age group. Not the typical 18-49 age group as most shows are set up to appeal to.
 
REally you don't see Dark Shadows parallel? THe fact that ...
I feel that that's like looking at individual weeds on the ground of a forest, while missing the fact that you're in a forest. The lack of a parallel between the two programs stems from the different themes of the shows, with Vampire Diaries being, essentially, a teen drama.

AS for the Twilight comparison it is so obvious that this show was put on the air to take advantage of the Twilight euphoria of today.
You missed the point: By your logic, the Twilight saga was effectively a "rip-off" of Vampire Diaries. In reality, neither is a "rip-off" of the other. That's just a baseless accusation fans of one or the other try to make to denigrate the franchise that they don't care for.

As far as Smallville , my point is that Clark Kent was a teenager for a small time in the comics as Superboy and they have spent all the time that they can before he should of become Superman in the time line. He should already have a costume and be flying in his red underwear with matching red boots by now. After all the green arrow has his on.
Have you seen Smallville this year?
cw-smallville-prt-episode903_049891-1ac3bc-281x374.jpg


Do note that Smallville does not need to be as cartoonish as, well, the cartoons. And there is nothing magical about tights. The production design of this series must necessarily be crafted in the context of today's sensibilities, which includes, to the extent that a fantasy can accommodate it, a more realistic look. Hence, the darker, less cartoonish colors of Kal-el's "costume". They've already paid homage to the garish palette of the cartoon costume, by having young Clark dress in bright, primary colors all along, and even with the whole Red/Blue Blur thing. I think it would take-away from the integrity of this separate, creative work to slave itself so wholly and completely to foundation materials, and to castrate any sense of independence therefrom.
 
The problem smallville has going forward is that there is no way to establish Superman. Clark Kent has never been in "disguise". Lois will recognise him instantely. So, the show is stuck in a sort of limbo where Superman never really emerges. I do not see how they build a bigger audience, all I see is existing audience eventually moving on. When the show first started you had something unique and different - Superman in High School. Now you are stuck with a red/blue blur, without Superman being able to appear. I just watch out of habit.

Supernatural is ending. I really like this show, I will miss it.

That leaves just the Vampire Diaries to build an audience. So far it has my attention and it seems to be building an audience.

That is all I watch on the CW. Once Supernatural ends, the network could fold and I would not miss it.

I do not watch any other series on CW.
 
In the fifties they had both Superman and Superboy comics. Superboy never grew up and they often had inconsistencies between the two.

I suppose the problem with Smallvile is that Tom Welling and the rest of the class is growing up. It was also a mistake to introduce Lois into this series, instead of keeping the universes separated.

As for the timeline, it happens all the time. Nobody is upset when TV doctors remain interns for three seasons, or where Buffy is a senior in the movie, but then comes to Sunnydale and spends three more years in high school.
 
I do not see how they build a bigger audience, all I see is existing audience eventually moving on.
The show has already achieved success. It is very clear, from practically everything the production team has been quoted as saying, that they're taking each year one at a time, continuing the series as long as they have good stories to tell and enough people willing to watch them. No television series lasts forever. The only question here is whether they want to make a Season 10 or not. There is no thing to prove, nothing to change. All that matters is whether it is worth doing or not.

When the show first started you had something unique and different
New things are new until the second day. That's a reflection of reality.
 
I guess the question is "Is Superman, Superman, if he is never called Superman?". The show is pretty much just Superman now except Superman is the Red/Blue blur and does not fly.
 
I think I've mentioned this before, in another thread... that what something is called is pretty meaningless, in the grand scheme of things. There is some evidence, actually, that calling it something familiar or reminiscent of something is bad. In a NY Times article, this week, the point was made that remakes of television series (specifically with the both the same title and same characters) is generally unsuccessful when presented on OTA broadcast networks. (That latter conditional deftly avoids the Battlestar Galactica counter-example, which I feel is unnecessary, since it can just be an exception -- it would be okay for the assertion to have been "almost all", AFAIC.)

Who knows? Maybe calling this show Smallville is what kept it a successful venture long past the five years or so that it was actually situated principally in Smallville.
 

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