What would you suggest?

[countryguy]

New to Satellite TV. Have decided to go with E*. I like the prices and that they appear to have the best DVRs and that some of them are dual tuners - I have two older TVS on two different floors. I will be going with SD until later when I plan to update one of those TVS to HD. I also have a outdoor Channel Master antenna that pulls in stations 60 miles away. Some of these staions now bradcast in HD. The antenna is wired throughout the house with RG-59U and uses an amplifier.

Now for some questions and advice.

I want to be able to use my existing antenna and wiring to get local programing which some of it is already in HD. I believe this is called OTA. Is this correct? So I am looking at getting a dual DVR that would be able to incorporate that signal and output it to the TV. Keep in mind that down the road I will be purchasing a new HD TV.

This is where I have questions and could use some advice from some experienced users on the forum. Which DVR should I go with that will fit my needs now and in the future when I update to a new HD TV - keeping in mind that the only HD programming I will use would be OTA Local Stations? I would not use any HD from DishNetwork. Was looking at the 625 - nice receiver. But would I be better off going with a 622 or a 722 now so I can pick up local HD programming OTA when I update to a new TV? Will the 622 or 722 allow me to use 2 SD TVS now? Will E* allow a 622 or 722 with a standard SD Dish 500 albeit with an added fee?

And one last question. Will the OTA stations show up in the progamming guide on the DVR? If I understand this correctly one needs to subscribe to Dish's Local programming for this to happen.

 

[boba]

Get a 722 to start off with.

 

[bhelms]

Yes - OTA = "Over the Air". RG-6/U is generally recommended for all installations, but for your OTA system the existing RG-59/U should be adequate. But if you ever need to replace that cable, go with a good, lower-loss 6 type. Also - 59 will not work for the sat. signals. You will need 6 running from the sat. LNBs to the receiver.

Dish's new 722 HD DVR would be your best choice in the future, but why get into the extra expense until you're ready to make the jump? You could lease from E*, or buy a 322 for now (2-room, SD only receiver) or 625 if you want the DVR from DishStore or on eBay for not a lot of money. Owning it, vs. leasing, would give you more flexibility later and the investment would be small. Leasing the 322 or 625 would require less outlay, but might tie you into a commitment that would preclude upgrades for 12-18 months. So part of your decision might rely on how soon you intend to upgrade.

Any HD receiver will "power" SD TVs. Keep in mind that both the 622 and 722 output HD + SD only to the "nearby" TV - It's SD (or down-converted HD) only to the second, remote TV. You can use 59 running from the receiver to the remote TV, or other means.

I think when you have the 622/722 installed, you should allow the installer to do the full dish upgrade for full HD even if you don't have the TV yet. But you could do a self install on the 622/722 now and have an installer come out later for the full HD upgrade, but at a cost. Or you can DIY with the right equipment if you feel capable/inclined. I had an installer do my first HD installation since that required a second dish and switch. But I have done all my upgrades myself since then.

Why won't you purchase HD programming from E*? There's a whole lot available now, and a lot more coming, and you can't get more than your local network affiliates OTA. If you only want the standard SD programming, why not skip the HD receiver altogether and get a 625? Use the tuner(s) in your HD TV(s) for the HD OTA programming and skip all the HD costs from E*, and the need for another or new dish.

You are correct that you need to purchase the locals from E* to get them to appear in your EPG.

Welcome, BTW...!

 

[WiCkeDuDe]

Why buy HD programming when you dont have a HDTV? The 625 or 322 will not do OTA. Only the 622/722 will do it and have HD DVR. You can get this installed and only pay for SD programming, however E* will charge you a $6 a month enabling fee to do this. You will need to subscribe to locals to get the guide data.

 

[countryguy]

Bhelms - Thanks for your detailed and well thought out reply and welcome! It looks like I will probably go with the 722 and pay the $6/mo enabling fee. That way I have a 300gig Hd instead of the 150 on the 625. Since OTA is important to me and the 625 does not support it, I think that may be the way to go if dish will let me lease it as a new customer without buying hd programming. When I get a HD TV, I will be able to record OTA programs. I may even purchase HD programs from Dish after my 18 mo committment is up.


WiCkeDuDe - Thanks also for your reply. I will not be buying any HD programing until I buy a HD TV. But having the 722, if I understand correctly, will give me a better DVR and one that is capable of performing any OTA functions. I assume that I will be able to record, pause, fast forward and everything else that you can do with E* programming I will be able to do with OTA programming.For this I will pay $6/mo. I will also save $5/mo since I won't need local channels. Or do I need to subscribe to locals to access OTA channels? Correct me if I don't have this right.

 

[garys]

I will not be buying any HD programing until I buy a HD TV. But having the 722, if I understand correctly, will give me a better DVR and one that is capable of performing any OTA functions. I assume that I will be able to record, pause, fast forward and everything else that you can do with E* programming I will be able to do with OTA programming.For this I will pay $6/mo. I will also save $5/mo since I won't need local channels. Or do I need to subscribe to locals to access OTA channels? Correct me if I don't have this right.

You will have access to the OTA programing (digital/HD only, no analog), but you will not have guide info. You can still record by setting manual timers.

 

[countryguy]

Sorry but I am confused. How do I get programs that I am now watching from my antenna on the house to show up when I subscribe to E*? Can I somehow use that antenna with E*?

I know that I want a dual tuner DVR and still be able to get all the same channels that I receive now. I thought that was called OTA- really confused. Sorry

As a side note: I could pay for local channels but I live in Mi which is about 50 miles southwest of Detroit. E* wants to put me on local channels from Toledo. The wife still wants her Detroit stations. I also would like to continue to receive stations from Lansing.

 

[garys]

OTA = Over The Air, an external antenna is used and hooked directly to the receiver, this allows you to record and use dvr on a third tuner on the receiver, you do not pay for these and you may get more HD channels than what Dish supplies ie: pbs and cw. Locals subscribed to via Dish are Dish programing just like any other channels you pay for, these are available on the two Sat tuners, these only consist of ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox (if you are lucky).

 

[countryguy]

Garys - If I understand this correctly, the 622/722 DVR has only digital tuners ,no analog signals will come through. Is that correct? It sounds like a need a splitter on the receiver going to my TV to get analog signals to the TV for my OTA programming in analog?

 

[jahost]

I have an early vip622 receiver with an OTA hooked up and I have never been able to record 2 sat channels and 1 OTA channel at the same time.

"John"

 

[KAB]

I have an early vip622 receiver with an OTA hooked up and I have never been able to record 2 sat channels and 1 OTA channel at the same time.

"John"

You should.

 

[bhelms]

Correct that the "ViP" series receivers (including the 622/722) have only digital tuners. The antenna you currently have should still work for you with some caveats. The digital channels are usually on a different frequency, most often in the UHF band chs 14-59, vs. the analog channels, so your system needs to be capable of a greater frequency range. To see what analog and digital channels are available in your area, along with a whole bunch of additional information (bearing, range, antenna height, radiated power, etc.) check AntennaWeb.org .

You can probably use just a simple (passive) splitter to send TV signals to both the TV and the receiver. Assuming your TV has an analog tuner, then that is your obvious option for receiving those analog channels that you still want until Feb. '09 when all analog OTA channels "go dark". One possible consideration: a passive splitter will impart about a 3.5dB loss to the signals going both ways. If your signal strength is marginal, that might be too much additional loss. The analog signals will have additional "snow"/noise and the digital signals will have pixelations/drop-outs, or not work at all. In that case you will need some kind of distribution amp.

You may find out that the digital OTA tuner in your TV is superior to the one in your sat. receiver. That was certainly the case with my Sony XBR TVs vs. the tuner in my 622. I'm in a very marginal OTA signal area, so that difference is noticeable. You may not have the same situation.

To get your Detroit local channels via Dish, you could "move". That's a trick many folks use to get different local service from one area to a "remote" system they own but receive the bill at their main residence, when in fact they are one in the same. Search that topic ("moving") in this site if you're interested in exploring it more.

Oh, one other thought: comparing the HDD size vs. recording time in the 625 vs. the 722 is not an exact science. Tho' the HDD in the 722 has much more capacity, its actual recording time could be considerably less than that of the 625 as HD programs gobble-up that space at a much higher rate vs. SD. You won't have any control over that rate unless an HD program is also available in SD on another channel (often is) and you record only the SD version. Of course the 625 records SD only.

Good luck with it all...!

 

[countryguy]

bhelms - Thanks again for your well thought out reply. I finally understand everything enough to make my decision regarding the receiver and programming thats right for me.

Based on the information provided in your clear explanation of digital vs anolog signals, I will use my outdoor antenna (vhf/uhf) with a spliter to pick up digital channels on the receiver and analog channels on the TV. Then on Feb. 09 when there is no more analog, I can disconnect the splitter and use the 722 exclusivley to pick up all the digital channels. I will be able to keep both of my older (10 yr old) TVs and not have to buy converter boxes in Feb 09. This also allows me to change to E* HD after 18 mo. without a penalty if I chose. I could also elect to get one HD TV to replace one of my older analog TV's at any time.

So my decision is: 722 DVR - Since the 625 DVR can not receive OTA
SD Programming
America's Top 100
Local Channels - If I move (thanks for the hint)
18 Mo committment

Do you agree with my thought process?

Thanks again for the help!!!!!

 

[Andrewwski]

I don't particularly reccomend the 18 month commitment.

 

[DirtyTurbin]

Ya eat the 49.99 install fee or ask me for a club dish card and stay out of the 18 month contract.

 

[bhelms]

Mostly, but you might want to avoid that commitment even if it costs you a bit more up front, and take advantage of any Club Dish incentives from current subs, like above. Even with a commitment, you don't need to wait 18 months to upgrade to HD. It's good to try to stay out of commitments/contracts (as I alluded in my first reply) simply to give yourself more flexibility later on if you decide to change equipment or providers. Confirm the exact details both ways. In my case, I don't plan on leaving E* anytime soon (customer since Dec. '98) so another 12- or 18-mo. commitment is no big deal to me. But I was in a 12-mo. commitment resulting from my HD upgrade that included a leased 811 when I wanted to upgrade to the 622 5 months later. I wasn't allowed to under a lease plan, but it was OK for me to purchase a 622 - which I did - and add it with no impact to the then-existing contract. I probably wouldn't have purchased the 622 otherwise. There is no payback, other than the small amount I might someday get selling it.

Again, I encourage you to also try the digital tuner in your TV. If your current TV doesn't have one, your new HDTV might (some are only "HD ready", meaning that you need external tuners), and it might be superior to the OTA tuner in the 722.

Good luck with it! You'll love the service, and I bet you'll end up upgrading to a new HD TV and full HD service from E* before long...!