I'll contribute this much to the discussion. I've been through many cheap multiswitches but the one that's still out there and has been running for 4 years has a WSI label on it (unless the weather ate it off).
What you should know about the quality of your satellite equipment!
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In the 70's, I had two American made cars,that had major issues due to poor workmanship. Plus the service to correct the problem on the second one was a total joke. I went Asian and have not looked back (averaging around a 150,000 miles on 3 cars, with the 3rd one still going strong with 15 years of dependable service). I would like to stay American but have a hard time buying American when the flag is wrapped around the product instead of quality (sort of like our politicians, but that is for a different thread, and before anyone starts throwing comments about one party or another, in my book, they both are terrible in this regard).
I will only chime in to say that because of Roby and Sat AV I would not be running c or ku band systems. Most of all if it wasnt for Ice,Anole and many others here I would have equipment but no signals. SO thanks to Robby, SatAV and Satelliteguys. All you guys in my eyes are the best at what you do
What is "Quality" without choice?
Quality is needed to perform manufacturing: that is, the exact same dimensioned product, in bulk, one at a time from a factory, after a few days, there are thousands, all exactly the same "quality".
Quality is performance: if a product is designed for a certain use, and in manufacturing they are turned out the same every time, they all will perform the same, which is a "quality".
Quality in design: if a said product has the correct parameters in the design as requirements to perform at a "certain" frequency, and conforms to the required laws of physics at the designed "frequency range"; such as 11.7-12.2 GHz.; then it has a designed "quality" at receiving said frequency.
Quality of materials in product design: Which material is stronger, which design with said material is going to last longer, which material has a better reflective "quality", what is the product trying to achieve in strength, and what factors like wind, rain, gain, snow, dust, etc. are you designing into your product that you want to assign factoring of the material used to be assigned some "quality" that is better or worse than another?
Now, if I am honest, I can and will design a product of intended use, that is better in every quality, stronger, faster, stouter, and smarter; and if I compare myself's product to any other product the same, none will be higher in Quality"!
Take for instance, a designing of a KU Band FTA satellite dish, first the parameters:
1) I want both Vertical and horizontal polarities of Ku Band frequencies of a satellite signal
2) I want the dish to not fail in wind, rain, snow, ice, or sand storms; to be strong, and have the ability to not fail in 100 mile an hour wind loading.
3) I want it to be small, yet have the gain of one that is larger.
4) I want to be able to sell the product at a profit in today's economy
Now for its design:
1) KU Band requires a min. 30 inch dish, larger in the Horizontal area of reception because a horizontal frequency attenuates more when being broadcast from a satellite in space; so to make the gains of hor./vert.match, shaped wider horizontally than it's vertical . (this is why, if you mount most cheaper dishes sideways, 90 deg., they get better signals across the KU spectrum) (I even know a Dish Net installer who will mount dishes upside down (180 deg. off), if you want to prove the principle)
2) Steel is stronger than aluminum, and plastic is stronger than steel; so one would choose plastic to build a better satellite dish, using the strongest material. This is proven by the plastic Channel Master 76 cm. dishes; wider than higher, and plastic, larger mount pipe, heavier bracing, all you need for the best satellite dish made today for KU Band (they do coat the inside of the plastic, the face of the dish that reflects the signal, with a material of some type that reflects really well, but weathering it never gets, no wind touches it, no rain, no snow, no ice storms or acid rain). The only thing you need to add is an ice melter plugged into the lnbf to melt snow and ice build-up.
3) This plastic dish type of design proves time and again, even though it is small, it performs like bigger lower quality dishes, which cannot stay the same shape after shipping and mounting; do not perform at the required frequencies time and again the same; are higher than they are wide, warp easy, and bend in the wind...
4) Why a higher quality dish costs the consumer less: They last longer, stand against the weather better, and when installed correctly, will withstand the worst weather without a glitch. And still, after all these years, it is still the best sat dish type made...When The same standards are put to C Band, one would want the design to be the same, reception without compromise in "qualities"
But maybe I need to explain Economics: He who has the gold; has the holds of the gold, and what is true about anything is said by gold alone...But of course, it's a horse, and all horses need to be the same color...Follow, do not lead...Newer is better because it is newer....Dumb old dinosaur....look, a tiger, and I'm stronger than it because I have a gun....Math hasn't even changed me....
May the force be with you...
Quality is needed to perform manufacturing: that is, the exact same dimensioned product, in bulk, one at a time from a factory, after a few days, there are thousands, all exactly the same "quality".
Quality is performance: if a product is designed for a certain use, and in manufacturing they are turned out the same every time, they all will perform the same, which is a "quality".
Quality in design: if a said product has the correct parameters in the design as requirements to perform at a "certain" frequency, and conforms to the required laws of physics at the designed "frequency range"; such as 11.7-12.2 GHz.; then it has a designed "quality" at receiving said frequency.
Quality of materials in product design: Which material is stronger, which design with said material is going to last longer, which material has a better reflective "quality", what is the product trying to achieve in strength, and what factors like wind, rain, gain, snow, dust, etc. are you designing into your product that you want to assign factoring of the material used to be assigned some "quality" that is better or worse than another?
Now, if I am honest, I can and will design a product of intended use, that is better in every quality, stronger, faster, stouter, and smarter; and if I compare myself's product to any other product the same, none will be higher in Quality"!
Take for instance, a designing of a KU Band FTA satellite dish, first the parameters:
1) I want both Vertical and horizontal polarities of Ku Band frequencies of a satellite signal
2) I want the dish to not fail in wind, rain, snow, ice, or sand storms; to be strong, and have the ability to not fail in 100 mile an hour wind loading.
3) I want it to be small, yet have the gain of one that is larger.
4) I want to be able to sell the product at a profit in today's economy
Now for its design:
1) KU Band requires a min. 30 inch dish, larger in the Horizontal area of reception because a horizontal frequency attenuates more when being broadcast from a satellite in space; so to make the gains of hor./vert.match, shaped wider horizontally than it's vertical . (this is why, if you mount most cheaper dishes sideways, 90 deg., they get better signals across the KU spectrum) (I even know a Dish Net installer who will mount dishes upside down (180 deg. off), if you want to prove the principle
)2) Steel is stronger than aluminum, and plastic is stronger than steel; so one would choose plastic to build a better satellite dish, using the strongest material. This is proven by the plastic Channel Master 76 cm. dishes; wider than higher, and plastic, larger mount pipe, heavier bracing, all you need for the best satellite dish made today for KU Band (they do coat the inside of the plastic, the face of the dish that reflects the signal, with a material of some type that reflects really well, but weathering it never gets, no wind touches it, no rain, no snow, no ice storms or acid rain). The only thing you need to add is an ice melter plugged into the lnbf to melt snow and ice build-up.
3) This plastic dish type of design proves time and again, even though it is small, it performs like bigger lower quality dishes, which cannot stay the same shape after shipping and mounting; do not perform at the required frequencies time and again the same; are higher than they are wide, warp easy, and bend in the wind...
4) Why a higher quality dish costs the consumer less: They last longer, stand against the weather better, and when installed correctly, will withstand the worst weather without a glitch. And still, after all these years, it is still the best sat dish type made...When The same standards are put to C Band, one would want the design to be the same, reception without compromise in "qualities"
But maybe I need to explain Economics: He who has the gold; has the holds of the gold, and what is true about anything is said by gold alone...But of course, it's a horse, and all horses need to be the same color...Follow, do not lead...Newer is better because it is newer....Dumb old dinosaur....look, a tiger, and I'm stronger than it because I have a gun....Math hasn't even changed me....
May the force be with you...
I'm not sure what to say. Some of the points here are valid, others are confused, some are simply incorrect. I figured I would restrict my comments to the following:
FTA LNBFs and feeds are almost always designed with a constant acceptance angle. That means their view is a circle. Increasing the dimensions of the dish beyond this view will not materially increase gain, because the feed will be intentionally attenuating anything outside of its acceptance angle. Such a dish may slightly improve the shielding of background noise, but this will apply equally to the horizontal and vertical polarizations.
A well-designed offset dish may appear to be longer in the vertical dimension than the horizontal, but from the feed's perspective, it should see a circle. Because an offset dish is a section of a paraboloid, it is the same as cutting a prime-focus dish from the center to an edge. No one will argue that stretching a tape measure from the center of the center plate of a prime-focus dish to an edge will yield a measurement larger than half the diameter of the prime-focus dish, and this is no different for offsets.
There are reasons to further increase the width of an offset dish, but this has nothing to do with favoring the horizontal polarization (it can't). Wider dishes will suffer smaller losses when the feeds themselves are offset from the focal point, as is required for multi-satellite reception from a single dish.
Turning an offset dish upside down is generally not a good idea unless one is trying to receive low elevation satellites and there is no other provision for mechanically pointing the dish. One of the benefits of offset dishes is the feed is pointed away from the earth, meaning thermal noise not completely shielded by the dish will be at a lower effective temperature than if the feed was pointing down, as is the case for prime-focus reflectors. Turning an offset dish upside down defeats this advantage, and offers no compensating benefit. The same applies to a lesser extent when twisting a dish by 90 degrees.
You may not like math or physics, but they do apply to this regime.
KU Band requires a min. 30 inch dish, larger in the Horizontal area of reception because a horizontal frequency attenuates more when being broadcast from a satellite in space; so to make the gains of hor./vert.match, shaped wider horizontally than it's vertical . (this is why, if you mount most cheaper dishes sideways, 90 deg., they get better signals across the KU spectrum) (I even know a Dish Net installer who will mount dishes upside down (180 deg. off), if you want to prove the principle
FTA LNBFs and feeds are almost always designed with a constant acceptance angle. That means their view is a circle. Increasing the dimensions of the dish beyond this view will not materially increase gain, because the feed will be intentionally attenuating anything outside of its acceptance angle. Such a dish may slightly improve the shielding of background noise, but this will apply equally to the horizontal and vertical polarizations.
A well-designed offset dish may appear to be longer in the vertical dimension than the horizontal, but from the feed's perspective, it should see a circle. Because an offset dish is a section of a paraboloid, it is the same as cutting a prime-focus dish from the center to an edge. No one will argue that stretching a tape measure from the center of the center plate of a prime-focus dish to an edge will yield a measurement larger than half the diameter of the prime-focus dish, and this is no different for offsets.
There are reasons to further increase the width of an offset dish, but this has nothing to do with favoring the horizontal polarization (it can't). Wider dishes will suffer smaller losses when the feeds themselves are offset from the focal point, as is required for multi-satellite reception from a single dish.
Turning an offset dish upside down is generally not a good idea unless one is trying to receive low elevation satellites and there is no other provision for mechanically pointing the dish. One of the benefits of offset dishes is the feed is pointed away from the earth, meaning thermal noise not completely shielded by the dish will be at a lower effective temperature than if the feed was pointing down, as is the case for prime-focus reflectors. Turning an offset dish upside down defeats this advantage, and offers no compensating benefit. The same applies to a lesser extent when twisting a dish by 90 degrees.
You may not like math or physics, but they do apply to this regime.
You might want to try what you say isn't true that I said; you know, actually mount a dish 90 degrees off of vertical, exactly sideways, and you will prove my point; you say you "know" a receiver will even tell you so on it's meter, a dish designed so that that the horizontal waves are gained stronger by a wider dish, and if you put the wider side of a dish at horizontal, they will be stronger. You may not apply math or physics correctly, but they do apply physically...
I live in the free world, there are no regimes that apply here
I live in the free world, there are no regimes that apply here
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I am sorry we are getting so OT, but it's hard for me not to comment when good information gets distorted
Living in the free world does not mean you can freely alter physics to suit your desires. "Wishing it will make it so" only applies in the land of Disney et al. Physics is an autocratic dictator that treats everyone alike; we may not completely understand it, but the aspects that apply to satellite reception with reflectors have been well understood and well documented for quite some time.
I am an advanced degreed physicist and one of my specialties for the past 40-odd years has been RF. The vast majority of what you have claimed is simply wrong and indicates a fundamental misunderstanding of how waves propagate, are reflected and are affected by feeds and waveguides. If you have some startling insights unknown to the rest of the world, please as Hindu55 asks, provide your sources.
I can assure you that if rotating an offset dish as you describe would somehow increase the gain of horizontally polarized signals, all dishes would be manufactured to take advantage of this and/or everyone would do it. In reality all you will accomplish by rotating an offset dish by 90 degrees is increasing the vulnerability of the feed to the earth's thermal noise, reducing the CNR for both the horizontal and vertical polarizations, and thereby defeating a primary advantage of offset reflectors.
Living in the free world does not mean you can freely alter physics to suit your desires. "Wishing it will make it so" only applies in the land of Disney et al. Physics is an autocratic dictator that treats everyone alike; we may not completely understand it, but the aspects that apply to satellite reception with reflectors have been well understood and well documented for quite some time.
I am an advanced degreed physicist and one of my specialties for the past 40-odd years has been RF. The vast majority of what you have claimed is simply wrong and indicates a fundamental misunderstanding of how waves propagate, are reflected and are affected by feeds and waveguides. If you have some startling insights unknown to the rest of the world, please as Hindu55 asks, provide your sources.
I can assure you that if rotating an offset dish as you describe would somehow increase the gain of horizontally polarized signals, all dishes would be manufactured to take advantage of this and/or everyone would do it. In reality all you will accomplish by rotating an offset dish by 90 degrees is increasing the vulnerability of the feed to the earth's thermal noise, reducing the CNR for both the horizontal and vertical polarizations, and thereby defeating a primary advantage of offset reflectors.
As you wish
You talk much about nothing to do with why a dish works, and why.
Do not try to fool yourself, a satellite signal is a microwave, very different than any radio frequency (RF) signal. It is based upon a much different form of wave propagation, and the rules are different. First off: +-b square root of etc. is RF; microwaves are "root mean squared". Reception of which is the dishes gain; "plus the LnbF gain", minus the loss of the cabling is a system; not RF gain only, such as "carriers are in a cabling". The dish, with an offset, no matter if it is parabolic or circular in dimension, bases its gain on the area of the dish the feedhorn receives. If the area of the parabolic dish is wider than it is high, more gain is derived from the wider area. Parabolics makes a dish have more area in one region, hor. or vert.; and focus's that entire region at the feed, either vertically or horizontally, whichever is more area focused has more gain, from a satellite dish dish. It is parabolics that focus as much area of the dish at the feed.
Look at this picture and explanatory on a satellite signal called a CONUS. Notice the shape of the dish compared to the shape of a conus signal... Especially those signals from satellites designed to be broadcast to the North American continent; they are wider, parabolically sent by a satellite in space, from space, to earth stations.
The principle of a satellite signal is explained, and why such is a wider dish balances a horizontal signals reception; because they are weaker when they get to where they are going, and of the shape of the signals progression itself, it has to travel farther, and attentuation of a signal, especially at high freq., causes its derived received receivable power to be less, just like an RF signal attenuates over long distance or in a cable, or from a point to point at different distances is received weaker over longer distances. Look at the horizontal region of a signal as the part that is spread wider also, therefore received at a lower power level. A satellite signal is 4 dimensional; RF is 3 dim...Please explain yourself, and whatever gibberish you try to explain yourself with, has always been proven wrong; just like most math was proven wrong when Columbus proved the world was round, and not flat.
Now prove I'm right, by taking the four holes that hold your vertically inclined parabolic dish; and put them 90 degrees off; while still keeping the focal point of the dish, putting only the dish plate 90 degrees turned and center the plate of the dish for your measured offset it has normally; now measure the horizontal transponders compared to the vertical; this discussion is closed.
I am sorry we are getting so OT, but it's hard for me not to comment when good information gets distorted
Living in the free world does not mean you can freely alter physics to suit your desires. "Wishing it will make it so" only applies in the land of Disney et al. Physics is an autocratic dictator that treats everyone alike; we may not completely understand it, but the aspects that apply to satellite reception with reflectors have been well understood and well documented for quite some time.
I am an advanced degreed physicist and one of my specialties for the past 40-odd years has been RF. The vast majority of what you have claimed is simply wrong and indicates a fundamental misunderstanding of how waves propagate, are reflected and are affected by feeds and waveguides. If you have some startling insights unknown to the rest of the world, please as Hindu55 asks, provide your sources.
I can assure you that if rotating an offset dish as you describe would somehow increase the gain of horizontally polarized signals, all dishes would be manufactured to take advantage of this and/or everyone would do it. In reality all you will accomplish by rotating an offset dish by 90 degrees is increasing the vulnerability of the feed to the earth's thermal noise, reducing the CNR for both the horizontal and vertical polarizations, and thereby defeating a primary advantage of offset reflectors.
You talk much about nothing to do with why a dish works, and why.
Do not try to fool yourself, a satellite signal is a microwave, very different than any radio frequency (RF) signal. It is based upon a much different form of wave propagation, and the rules are different. First off: +-b square root of etc. is RF; microwaves are "root mean squared". Reception of which is the dishes gain; "plus the LnbF gain", minus the loss of the cabling is a system; not RF gain only, such as "carriers are in a cabling". The dish, with an offset, no matter if it is parabolic or circular in dimension, bases its gain on the area of the dish the feedhorn receives. If the area of the parabolic dish is wider than it is high, more gain is derived from the wider area. Parabolics makes a dish have more area in one region, hor. or vert.; and focus's that entire region at the feed, either vertically or horizontally, whichever is more area focused has more gain, from a satellite dish dish. It is parabolics that focus as much area of the dish at the feed.
Look at this picture and explanatory on a satellite signal called a CONUS. Notice the shape of the dish compared to the shape of a conus signal... Especially those signals from satellites designed to be broadcast to the North American continent; they are wider, parabolically sent by a satellite in space, from space, to earth stations.
The principle of a satellite signal is explained, and why such is a wider dish balances a horizontal signals reception; because they are weaker when they get to where they are going, and of the shape of the signals progression itself, it has to travel farther, and attentuation of a signal, especially at high freq., causes its derived received receivable power to be less, just like an RF signal attenuates over long distance or in a cable, or from a point to point at different distances is received weaker over longer distances. Look at the horizontal region of a signal as the part that is spread wider also, therefore received at a lower power level. A satellite signal is 4 dimensional; RF is 3 dim...Please explain yourself, and whatever gibberish you try to explain yourself with, has always been proven wrong; just like most math was proven wrong when Columbus proved the world was round, and not flat.
Now prove I'm right, by taking the four holes that hold your vertically inclined parabolic dish; and put them 90 degrees off; while still keeping the focal point of the dish, putting only the dish plate 90 degrees turned and center the plate of the dish for your measured offset it has normally; now measure the horizontal transponders compared to the vertical; this discussion is closed.
Well, it's a shame a useful thread has been polluted with a lot of off-topic . . . material.
I believe there are two reasons the molded plastic dishes perform so well (besides their possible accuracy):
- they have an optimized (matching) feedhorn. This is essential when the dish is elliptical!
- the 80-, 90-cm, & 1m models are measures across the dish (horizontally), and are a little taller than that.
.... stamped steel dishes in this size are generally measured by their height (think about it)
.... only when you get to the 1.2m stamped dishes, do they measure by width (your mileage may vary)
I believe there are two reasons the molded plastic dishes perform so well (besides their possible accuracy):
- they have an optimized (matching) feedhorn. This is essential when the dish is elliptical!
- the 80-, 90-cm, & 1m models are measures across the dish (horizontally), and are a little taller than that.
.... stamped steel dishes in this size are generally measured by their height (think about it)
.... only when you get to the 1.2m stamped dishes, do they measure by width (your mileage may vary)
This is a key point. When turning a dish 90deg, are you also moving the feed?
The point of view from the satellite is the dish is round. When the dish is turned 90deg, the signal no longer is entering the dish from the front, it is now entering the dish from one side.
Please note.... this is with the standard oval, one satellite dish. Not the wide oval multisatellite dish.
If microwaves aren't RF what are they?Here are some more "FACTS":
I understand that in the early days of RF experimentation, leaches were applied in a linear vertical orientation to the lower half of an offset dish. This resulted in the ability to suck in more vertically polarized signals. Horizontal placement of the leaches caused electromagnetic induction which instantly killed the leaches and sterilized the scientific team.
This horrific experimentation continued through the early 20's when Al Gore invented the Internet.
We are having a close-out on vertically polarized leaches. Please contact me by PM if you need the remaining stock......
LOL!!!
I wouldn't rely heavily on that general assumption... But I found your pic and citation below it very entertaining. Would you care to share the source?
There might be MORE discoveries made when reading it all.As it is
Now that I haved your attention, please, do not get me wrong.
I for one applaud your website and sponsors for their quality products.
I applaud the equipment you provide, and your knowledge on the subject of your and others satellite equipment (and every day, I learn more about such) and the many ways satellite tv works for so many.
I especially applaud anybody who will take the chance of providing their own proven and patented product line in the Satellite TV Industry; making such reliable equipment that you all do, and provide them to the general public, because this is not an easy thing to do.
In patents of, which WSI can and does provide, I can understand that many such designs of satellite tv equipment has already been done, that is, in any certain design, none can be exactly the same, and with the satellite tv industry being so divulged of the many designs already patented, the ones not available restrict new product designing to offshoots that cannot be the same "design". And I applaud any distribution that can and does design and produce the great new products they have available. Not to mention that their quality products work great, are reliable, and provide thousands upon thousands of people their great technological progresses, allowing Free to Air Satellite TV enthusiust's everywhere to watch television programs they could not receive any other way, nor have to pay a monthly fee for.
But I especially, always, applaud your low prices, and the "under 100 satellite system" offered; and it is a very HQ system, even compared to the last couple of years in both price and technology; and your low priced product is being readily put into a consumers hand, while still allowing them to know that they have a quality product they can install, program, and use easily.
This is and you are the satellite industry at its best, for today a technology is created and disappears in a short time, and you are still here.
In the past; when the only satellite lnb available was $10000, cost of a satellite system went to $10,000, but such is "the price" blocked many people from owning one; Every channel available was free, and the more the cable company took channels from it, the less it cost for the equipment, and as time went on, so too did it add newer channels and more of them that were readily available without a monthly cost. Today, more new channels are being offered in FTA mode, to owners of Free to Air satellite dish systems; while other channels disappear. And where other than a Forum can one find out what is going on, to learn about the satellite tv system and its many channels, what products to buy, and what features, etc.; and you even have support for other product lines that do the same things under different names.
The quality found here in knowledge, data, products, instructions, and support to its members is second to none, but do not fool yourselves; if anybody could be absolutely true, brutally honest, and without compromise on such is only ONE subject; business models would not be allowed, and so goes business, there you are, and there you go, and to leave the competition alone, is considered not a "must" system. But if you are honest about yourself, I for one do not have to bow or applaud, or stop showing you by past mistakes, nor apologize to anyone about someone else past mistakes, and whether they have fixed them, relying on blaming someone else for their own problems, and, quite frankly, I do not expect to be judged any differently myself. But that would not be business law then, would it...
Now that I haved your attention, please, do not get me wrong.
I for one applaud your website and sponsors for their quality products.
I applaud the equipment you provide, and your knowledge on the subject of your and others satellite equipment (and every day, I learn more about such) and the many ways satellite tv works for so many.
I especially applaud anybody who will take the chance of providing their own proven and patented product line in the Satellite TV Industry; making such reliable equipment that you all do, and provide them to the general public, because this is not an easy thing to do.
In patents of, which WSI can and does provide, I can understand that many such designs of satellite tv equipment has already been done, that is, in any certain design, none can be exactly the same, and with the satellite tv industry being so divulged of the many designs already patented, the ones not available restrict new product designing to offshoots that cannot be the same "design". And I applaud any distribution that can and does design and produce the great new products they have available. Not to mention that their quality products work great, are reliable, and provide thousands upon thousands of people their great technological progresses, allowing Free to Air Satellite TV enthusiust's everywhere to watch television programs they could not receive any other way, nor have to pay a monthly fee for.
But I especially, always, applaud your low prices, and the "under 100 satellite system" offered; and it is a very HQ system, even compared to the last couple of years in both price and technology; and your low priced product is being readily put into a consumers hand, while still allowing them to know that they have a quality product they can install, program, and use easily.
This is and you are the satellite industry at its best, for today a technology is created and disappears in a short time, and you are still here.
In the past; when the only satellite lnb available was $10000, cost of a satellite system went to $10,000, but such is "the price" blocked many people from owning one; Every channel available was free, and the more the cable company took channels from it, the less it cost for the equipment, and as time went on, so too did it add newer channels and more of them that were readily available without a monthly cost. Today, more new channels are being offered in FTA mode, to owners of Free to Air satellite dish systems; while other channels disappear. And where other than a Forum can one find out what is going on, to learn about the satellite tv system and its many channels, what products to buy, and what features, etc.; and you even have support for other product lines that do the same things under different names.
The quality found here in knowledge, data, products, instructions, and support to its members is second to none, but do not fool yourselves; if anybody could be absolutely true, brutally honest, and without compromise on such is only ONE subject; business models would not be allowed, and so goes business, there you are, and there you go, and to leave the competition alone, is considered not a "must" system. But if you are honest about yourself, I for one do not have to bow or applaud, or stop showing you by past mistakes, nor apologize to anyone about someone else past mistakes, and whether they have fixed them, relying on blaming someone else for their own problems, and, quite frankly, I do not expect to be judged any differently myself. But that would not be business law then, would it...
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I would take the dish plate, and turn it 90 degrees to the mount, then drill the 4 mount bolting hole exactly in the same place as they were, allowing the offset to be the same. Then i would use the mount pipe and skew the dish with it, from where i am 23 degrees counterclockwise from behind the dish. This would make the dish perform to its optimum on G19, making the larger dimension of the dish apply itself to horizontal. Parabolic dishes focus their signals into one round smaller space, it is what parabolic means compared to a circular (round, with any diameter measured the same, which can use an offset of the lnbf if it want) dish that focuses the signals to a round center point also...
Ok so you are turning the reflector 90 degrees, but not the LNBF and arm.
I'm not sure about
Do you have any pictures of a dish you have done this to?
Larry, if I butchered a dish, I would be guilty of destruction, and that is not any intent I can fathom being. My fathoms here are dish design, and design is not quality, it is for purposes and technical matching. In design, certain qualities of a product are brought out, and such is the basis of quality when compared to other qualities.
What I am saying, however, is: If a dishes diameter has a larger distance top to bottom compared to side to side; more area of the dish is focused to the feed from the vertical (parabolic's), thus higher gain on vertical transponders compared to horizontal ones. This is a quality the parabolic's of a dishes design brings out. If the dish plates of this kind, normally mounted, higher than wider, were compared to the same dish plate, 90 degree's mounted instead, one would notice that the horizontal transponder's gain would increase, while the vertical ones would be less. This would also match the CONUS beam patterns and differences between, and though the most southerly satellite would show the biggest difference, and such is skewing this type of dishes feed for correct reception of any satellite not directly south accomplishes "area" of the dish a little to my point; it is the dishes design which shows that I could prove any weakness it has in Horizontal transponder reception. This weakness in design is also a strength, because if you look at the beam patterns across the World, in South America (although Brazil's beam pattern is blobular) it matches the Continent types BETTER (CONUS, a coned head, using parabolic's to achieve an prescribed area), Africa, same thing; weaker verticals than horizontals, dish better in gain for verticals would balance the act...
How bout this, I'll do it for you next time i'm in California; we'll set up both dishes, and you watch me buy and butcher my 90 cm. 90 degrees off, at my time and expense (not a clients). I'll prove the same thing I am saying. Horizontal and Vertical beams attenuate according to the amount of area they must cover (because of distances the signal must travel), and if the sent beam pattern is wider than it is high (N to S); then it is a property of the signal (sent by the satellite in space) that the horizontal transponders are weaker, when received, than the same powered transponders of the same satellite that are vertical, because they must travel farther (and attenuate more) to get where they are going to, such is the "parabolic's"
What I am saying, however, is: If a dishes diameter has a larger distance top to bottom compared to side to side; more area of the dish is focused to the feed from the vertical (parabolic's), thus higher gain on vertical transponders compared to horizontal ones. This is a quality the parabolic's of a dishes design brings out. If the dish plates of this kind, normally mounted, higher than wider, were compared to the same dish plate, 90 degree's mounted instead, one would notice that the horizontal transponder's gain would increase, while the vertical ones would be less. This would also match the CONUS beam patterns and differences between, and though the most southerly satellite would show the biggest difference, and such is skewing this type of dishes feed for correct reception of any satellite not directly south accomplishes "area" of the dish a little to my point; it is the dishes design which shows that I could prove any weakness it has in Horizontal transponder reception. This weakness in design is also a strength, because if you look at the beam patterns across the World, in South America (although Brazil's beam pattern is blobular) it matches the Continent types BETTER (CONUS, a coned head, using parabolic's to achieve an prescribed area), Africa, same thing; weaker verticals than horizontals, dish better in gain for verticals would balance the act...
How bout this, I'll do it for you next time i'm in California; we'll set up both dishes, and you watch me buy and butcher my 90 cm. 90 degrees off, at my time and expense (not a clients). I'll prove the same thing I am saying. Horizontal and Vertical beams attenuate according to the amount of area they must cover (because of distances the signal must travel), and if the sent beam pattern is wider than it is high (N to S); then it is a property of the signal (sent by the satellite in space) that the horizontal transponders are weaker, when received, than the same powered transponders of the same satellite that are vertical, because they must travel farther (and attenuate more) to get where they are going to, such is the "parabolic's"
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