Where to connect satellite RG-6 to UPS surge protector

[lnbchris]

Hi all, I just got a whole-house DVR Genie HR44/500 and three wired Genie Clients installed. So far so good!

I have a large Cyberpower UPS (with one set of surge suppression RG-6 video connections) which everything in my entertainment center gets plugged into. Since this is a new type of system for me, I am just wondering where in the signal chain should I insert the UPS RG-6 surge protection? I forgot to ask the installers about this. I want to protect the Genie as much as possible as it looks like others have had to jump hurdles to get a replacement.
Thanks
Chris

 

[Broe67]

You do not. You place one of these at the Static block outside, where the Coax from the LNB is attached to. The Gas Discharge goes on the line side that comes from the LNB, not the side that goes inside the house or to the Splitter if placed outside.

Also make sure the Static Block is properly grounded to the Earth Ground for your Power Utility ground rod for the power meter on your home. http://www.parts-express.com/cable-tv-in-line-coaxial-surge-protector--180-190

 

[twizt3dsist3r]

I wouldn't do that either. That product is not designed to pass voltage and is not endorsed by directv. Your system should be grounded outside just leaving the wiring how it was installed.

 

[lnbchris]

You do not. You place one of these at the Static block outside, where the Coax from the LNB is attached to. The Gas Discharge goes on the line side that comes from the LNB, not the side that goes inside the house or to the Splitter if placed outside.

Also make sure the Static Block is properly grounded to the Earth Ground for your Power Utility ground rod for the power meter on your home. http://www.parts-express.com/cable-tv-in-line-coaxial-surge-protector--180-190

Okay, that is fine. One less indoor wire. I will leave it as-is. Is that the correct part? It is listed for cable use.

The outdoor grounding connections are correct, as per the online installation guide for my dish.

Back when I had cable TV, the cable took out one or two AV devices during electrical storms, but from distant lightning strikes. That was before the UPS though, and also I later found the connections on the grounding rod to be rusted, and loose.

The grounding rod itself is copper and original to the house, which is about 40 years old. Just before the installation I removed the old connectors, polished off the mounting areas on the rod with a wire brush to expose fresh copper, and then mounted the new collars with conductive paste. After all those years though I am wondering if it can be expected for the buried portion of the grounding rod to still be conductive in the earth.

 

[lnbchris]

I wouldn't do that either. That product is not designed to pass voltage and is not endorsed by directv. Your system should be grounded outside just leaving the wiring how it was installed.

Thanks!

 

[Jam3s]

It amuses me how people want to connect their satellite system to a surge suppressor. The only reason you'd need one on cable is if you fear that voltage would somehow appear on the cable line. Since a satellite system is powered (not as much on swm, but still), there's no need for surge suppression anywhere. Just a decent ground if you have a fear of built-up static electricity.

 

[Broe67]

I wouldn't do that either. That product is not designed to pass voltage and is not endorsed by directv. Your system should be grounded outside just leaving the wiring how it was installed.

It will pass voltage fine. I have it on my coax from my dish, and no problems with signal. It is made to be a sacrificial element, to protect downstream equipment. L-Com sells ones that you can replace the Gas Discharge module. Those cost more.

Grounding does not protect from Lightening strikes. It is there to protect in case the dish becomes electrified from a fallen electrical line, or static voltage. That is all the ground at the static block is for, for Catv & Satellite.

 

[twizt3dsist3r]

Not to argue but I still wouldn't use one.

 

[Broe67]

Not to argue but I still wouldn't use one.

That is your choice. But I do not want to hear it, when your equipment gets fried, due to a Lightening strike on the dish.

 

[twizt3dsist3r]

You wont Lol. I will simply walk into my warehouse and get all new equipment. If the dish takes a direct hit your house is gonna have some other issues as well.

 

[Broe67]

You wont Lol. I will simply walk into my warehouse and get all new equipment. If the dish takes a direct hit your house is gonna have some other issues as well.

Incorrect. A Lightening strike will take out everything connected to the DVR or STB's. Not always will a lightening strike be a direct hit.

Even if the house electrical system is in good order, proper grounding with a Ufer or Ground rods. A Lightening strike takes all paths to find its way. Same thing with an electrical short.

 

[Jam3s]

I'm going to end this argument. Regardless of what protection you have in-line, save a really strong mechanical switch that throws itself when extremely high voltage hits it, lightning is going to kill your junk in the event of a direct strike. If you're lucky (very very rarely will this ever happen. trees are more deeply grounded and full of water), it will hit the dish and fry the cables before it reaches any of the STBs. If you're really unlucky, it will hit a tree or another object near the dish and fry everything you know and love, because electricity is going to arc and jump all throughout your system killing your STBs and HDMI tuners in the TVs. Grounding and surge suppressors will not save you (although there is a possibility that either or both could mitigate some of the damage). That is the most extreme example I've seen in the field related to lightning. I've also seen an instance where lightning has hit a nearby fence post, traveled up the house ground source and damaged STBs and CRTs; I assume there was a better ground source somewhere in the house that was somehow factored in. In any case, lightning is pretty nasty.

Part 2. Surge Suppressors: There are no directv approved Surge Suppressors. Most of them provide very dirty power on the electrical side, not many of them pass power on coax, and out of those that do, very few (if any) are rated up to 3ghz. Ok, so you want to use an MoCA device (client) on one that's rated up to 1.5 Ghz; it works, and I'm not going to discredit you for doing it. But if you put a device with tuners on one, or a power inserter, then you're just asking for trouble.

 

[ibuildradios]

If you really want lightning protection, ground like this...

http://www.am1000rangemaster.com/amradiogrounding.pdf

It's how all of the AM broadcast towers are set up and they DO take direct hits all the time. That might be overkill though.

 

[texasbrit]

I'm going to end this argument. Regardless of what protection you have in-line, save a really strong mechanical switch that throws itself when extremely high voltage hits it, lightning is going to kill your junk in the event of a direct strike. If you're lucky (very very rarely will this ever happen. trees are more deeply grounded and full of water), it will hit the dish and fry the cables before it reaches any of the STBs. If you're really unlucky, it will hit a tree or another object near the dish and fry everything you know and love, because electricity is going to arc and jump all throughout your system killing your STBs and HDMI tuners in the TVs. Grounding and surge suppressors will not save you (although there is a possibility that either or both could mitigate some of the damage). That is the most extreme example I've seen in the field related to lightning. I've also seen an instance where lightning has hit a nearby fence post, traveled up the house ground source and damaged STBs and CRTs; I assume there was a better ground source somewhere in the house that was somehow factored in. In any case, lightning is pretty nasty.

Part 2. Surge Suppressors: There are no directv approved Surge Suppressors. Most of them provide very dirty power on the electrical side, not many of them pass power on coax, and out of those that do, very few (if any) are rated up to 3ghz. Ok, so you want to use an MoCA device (client) on one that's rated up to 1.5 Ghz; it works, and I'm not going to discredit you for doing it. But if you put a device with tuners on one, or a power inserter, then you're just asking for trouble.

Great post. And right on the money.
You can protect your systems if you go for a full house protection system, with lightning rods all around the house and with the dish inside the "cone of protection". A number of people in my neighborhood have systems like this, several thousand dollars each.

 

[Broe67]

If you really want lightning protection, ground like this...

http://www.am1000rangemaster.com/amradiogrounding.pdf

It's how all of the AM broadcast towers are set up and they DO take direct hits all the time. That might be overkill though.

That is only for grounding, not Lightening protection. My father was a Radio Man for the Air Force for over 25 years. He set up sites in a lot of places that were struck daily by lightening.

Even you know, that once you light up a transmitter, a whole lot of static electricity gets created at the top. The main thing about grounding, is again in case the system becomes electrified by a fallen electrical line, the mast falls into an over head line, and/or to discharge any static electricity created by the transmission of the units on the top of the antenna.

 

[Broe67]

So there is no further argument about this subject. This is the IEEE guide on Surge Protection of equipment connected to AC power & Comm. Circuits. http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_lhm/IEEE_Guide.pdf

 

[twizt3dsist3r]

Or we could just stated plainly that there are zero approved surge suppression devices per directv standards and directv and all of its employees will advise you not to use any. Backing up what james said..

 

[Broe67]

Or we could just stated plainly that there are zero approved surge suppression devices per directv standards and directv and all of its employees will advise you not to use any. Backing up what james said..

In turn when a customer files a fried personal electronics claim with DirecTV or whom ever. The rest of us end up paying for it with the increased rates.

A Gas Discharge is not a Surge Protector. It is for Lightning protection. DirecTV like the rest of providers go by the minimum that is in the NEC. That is to only ground the static block to the building ground, to protect in case the dish or line becomes energized from an electrical line, along with discharge of static electricity. The ground for comminications equipment on homes, has never been for protection from Lightning.

 

[twizt3dsist3r]

I politely disagree with the use of this product that is my opinion as a technician for directv and you are entitled to yours. I think it's time we just end this topic.

 

[lnbchris]

Interesting replies. I am glad I came by to check for more responses. It is understandable for people to be hesitant to give advice on this. I have done EE work in a previous lifetime on large industrial sites, so I realize the importance of the safety measures that must be in place. We have always had Electricians on site which did that type of work. I just hadn't thought this over for myself, especially as it relates to home satellite TV.

Having said that, the previous cable service allowed for nearby power line lightning strikes to damage my TV equipment. More specifically there was a differential created between the cable POE and the electrical POE, large enough to ruin some equipment, but not large enough to do any more damage to the house than just that. Perhaps a better maintained grounding point would have sufficed.

I am thinking there will probably be less likelihood of lightning damage from a small satellite dish, primarily due to less surface area to attract the lightning, although any damage would be all or nothing. That is compared to the cable service, which is strung out all around the neighborhood and has much more exposed surface area for the lightning to hit. In the last case where we had a hit, I actually was watching the storm from my front porch and witnessed the lightning hit the utility pole about 250' away in front of our house. It was that hit which damaged our TV equipment.

The dish itself is mounted on a one-story roof of a two-story house. It is beside a brick chimney which extends probably about five or six feet above the top of the dish. As far as we know, there has never been a lightning strike on the house in its existence. (Fingers crossed!!!)

I think I will find someone who has a grounding rod resistance meter and is willing to come out and test it, as it is a 40 year old copper grounding rod, and based on some precursory online research it seems like copper rods can be expected have about a 40 year life span.