why all the spotbeam activity

T

Trouthead

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 8, 2004
243
8
Rockies
What does DISH gain by going to the spotbeam for local stations? Are they under FCC pressure? Can they handle more local networks with spotbeams.

Is the day of the CONUS signal for networks over??

Just curious and not to happy:mad:
 
BrianB

BrianB

SatelliteGuys Guru
Jan 3, 2004
149
0
The only people complaining would be people who shouldn't be getting the channel anyway. :)

It's much more cost effective for Dish to spot beam channels that only certain areas of the country should see anyway. They also only have certain licenses/frequencies and can reuse them in different areas for spot beams allowing more room for national channels.

At least that's my (limited) understanding...
 
HDRoberts

HDRoberts

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 13, 2008
4,795
31
Cleveland, OH
What does DISH gain by going to the spotbeam for local stations? Are they under FCC pressure? Can they handle more local networks with spotbeams.

Is the day of the CONUS signal for networks over??

Just curious and not to happy:mad:

Look at TheList (link in the top tabs). Sorting by transponder, you can see spotbeams enable them to provide many more locals per TP (of which there are limited allocations) by reusing frequencies across the us.

Part of it is FCC regulation, as Dish cannot provide distant networks except under specific circumstances. As such, Dish has no motive for CONUS locals. Spotbeams are just the technology that enables Dish to offer as many sets of locals as they can.
 
JohnL

JohnL

Pub Member / Supporter
Sep 23, 2003
1,415
94
Spencerport, NY
Look at TheList (link in the top tabs). Sorting by transponder, you can see spotbeams enable them to provide many more locals per TP (of which there are limited allocations) by reusing frequencies across the us.

Part of it is FCC regulation, as Dish cannot provide distant networks except under specific circumstances. As such, Dish has no motive for CONUS locals. Spotbeams are just the technology that enables Dish to offer as many sets of locals as they can.


HDRoberts,

Dish can no longer provide any local network affiliates outside of their DMA. This stems from litigation between Dish, the NAB, and several NAB member affiliates, even though the FCC has rules as to whom qualify. Dish lost the rights to be able to sell distant services directly under the above mentioned litigation.

The only way to get distant services legally using a Dish Network receiver is to order Distant service from All American Direct, whom is leasing several transponders. Be aware All American Direct does not sell HD network access, only SD.

John
 
HDRoberts

HDRoberts

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 13, 2008
4,795
31
Cleveland, OH
HDRoberts,

Dish can no longer provide any local network affiliates outside of their DMA. This stems from litigation between Dish, the NAB, and several NAB member affiliates, even though the FCC has rules as to whom qualify. Dish lost the rights to be able to sell distant services directly under the above mentioned litigation.

The only way to get distant services legally using a Dish Network receiver is to order Distant service from All American Direct, whom is leasing several transponders. Be aware All American Direct does not sell HD network access, only SD.

John

Bolded was exactly what I was referring to. No need to make things overly complex for a new guy.
 
yaz96

yaz96

Baby, It's Cold Outside
Dec 22, 2005
12,829
1
Front Range, Colorado
The only people complaining would be people who shouldn't be getting the channel anyway. :)

It's much more cost effective for Dish to spot beam channels that only certain areas of the country should see anyway. They also only have certain licenses/frequencies and can reuse them in different areas for spot beams allowing more room for national channels.

At least that's my (limited) understanding...

Please explain....
 
HDRoberts

HDRoberts

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 13, 2008
4,795
31
Cleveland, OH
Well, efficient is a better word. Cost only has a little to do with it. It has prevented them from having to use 121 or 105, which required a Superdish install, and they probably saved money not having to get a hold of more Ku linear licenses. Spotbeams enable the to do the same with less licenses and satellites.
 
digiblur

digiblur

SatelliteGuys Master
Jun 8, 2005
14,190
4
Louisiana
Let's take 129. They will use all 32 licenses there. Let's say they had a satellite such as E11 there that was all CONUS. Let's split it up where they use 1-16 for National HDs and 17-32 for locals.

If they used CONUS for 1-16 all they could provide was about 1.5 DMA's per TP. For the grand total of 24 Cities. Such a waste as the entire US is receiving a channel that only certain areas can get in their package.

Let's turn to spot beams. I don't know the numbers right off my head by there are about 53 spots beams across the US for Ciel-2 on TP 1-16. Let's use an example of say every beam has 3 TPs assigned to it. And the grand total is??? 159 DMAs for HD Locals on the same exact transponder licenses that the 24 took. A little better eh?

Basically they gain the additional space by only sending the transponder frequencies into small areas then reusing those same transponder frequencies a state or two over...then they use again and again.

It's nothing about trying to piss people off for "moving"... it's all about being efficient.
 
joemuseum

joemuseum

Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Apr 9, 2008
26
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Whenever the DTV changeover happens, many customers who are not prepared, who used to get channels over the air, will be looking for alternatives. Some will get converter boxes, some will get new HD TV's, some will get local cable, and some will be looking at Satellite, especially if they went the HD TV purchase route. They will be looking for the channels they are already familiar with, the locals. So it is to Dish's advantage to get as many local stations up there as possible before the changeover happens. IMHO that is one reason they are cramming in the locals.
 
HDRoberts

HDRoberts

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 13, 2008
4,795
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Cleveland, OH
Let's turn to spot beams. I don't know the numbers right off my head by there are about 53 spots beams across the US for Ciel-2 on TP 1-16. Let's use an example of say every beam has 3 TPs assigned to it. And the grand total is??? 159 DMAs for HD Locals on the same exact transponder licenses that the 24 took. A little better eh?

There are actually 145 spot beam transponders. at least 145 DMAs. Some spots have 5 TPs, others have 1. Still the same point.
 
S

Smith P.

On Vacation
Oct 4, 2003
8,907
1
Bay Area, CA
May be some recall a math challenge - what minimal number of colors require to make a country/World map ? Same idea.
 
Last edited:
terpsmandan

terpsmandan

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 7, 2008
160
0
Somewhere near here
The legal issue is that the local channel in your DMA has your right to watch that network. I believe that Dish got busted a few years back by offering to change anyone who asked to national feeds without getting waivers. When we started with DTV back in 99 we got instant waivers from Syracuse, NY to get the NY and LA net feeds. We turned it of for about a year and when we turned DTV back on, we could not get a waiver from NBC in Syracuse and had no NBC for about a year. Then we switched to Dish and they had just started showing Rochester locals. Rochester, NY is still not on schedule to be HD'ed and I tried "moving" to Cleveland. Got the SD but the HD spot did not go that far to the west.
 
D

DishSubLA

SatelliteGuys Master
Apr 9, 2006
5,441
1,402
There is no legal issue or requirement that Dish use spotbeams. Spotbeams is a matter of efficiency. Now, when Dish used to provide Distant Nets, they had to lose some efficiency by putting those stations on ConUS. However, after Dish lost the legal right to provide Distant Nets, there was no longer any point to wasting the bandwidth on ConUS for stations that could now only be viewed in their respective DMA. Since those Distant Nets no longer had a need to be on ConUS, Dish put them on spotbeams to realize greater efficiency, but no legal requirement to do so (as the access of channels is controlled by the software on the STB regarding access)

This is a very similar situation with the RSN's. Ideally, they should all be on spotbeams to realize maximum efficiency, but Dish has a package to provide all RSN's to all subs throught the country, so now the RSN's are eating up the precious bandwidth on the ConUS. But Dish can put any channel on any type of transponder it wants, the FCC doesn't care because the issue is access, meaning what the STB software will allow you to see.

In fact, for years, all the LIL's were ConUS because that was the technology then, but you may remember, your STB could only see and access the locals in your DMA (or Distant Nets) even though several other LIL's were streaming down to your dish and into the STB, but the box never allowed you to see or access them. In fact there are still some LIL's on ConUS, today.
 
S

Smith P.

On Vacation
Oct 4, 2003
8,907
1
Bay Area, CA
Talking about efficiency - one CONUS beam will much less cost and maintenance time; less uplink stations, less expensive sat equipment, less size of system tables and time of ppl who support them, etc.
Not enough transponders ? Crank up compression ! :)
 

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