Maybe its a bug in my 622 but I see so little CC on my HD channels, especially the newest channels. It is very important to me because I am so hard of hearing. For instance I am watching Dark Water on Starz HD and it says it has CC but there is none on my screen. If I go to the regular Starz channel I get CC. Anyone else see this problem?
Why so little Closed Captioning on HD
- Thread starter John W
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Replies 24
- Views 3K
I think it's something to do with Dish's retransmission of the HD locals. The over the air HD channels have CC when they say they do, but the satellite equivalents of the local HD channels do not retransmit the CC properly. I'm in the Los Angeles area.
E* could get into real quick trouble with the FCC on this. There are specific requirements and %-thresholds for closed captioning programming. All it would take is a well-researched complaint from some Hearing Impaired organization or pro-bono outfit to get the FCC's attention.
-err, maybe not quite. IIRC there have been posts here to the effect that CC is required on NTSC but not yet on digital ATSC. It may have something to do with standards and implementation. There are simply a lot of HD shows without CC, even if it says CC at the opening. I've seen this on Dish, and I've seen this on OTA. I think other posts noted that CC will not be recorded on an HD show unless you turn it on before recording begins, whereas with analog signals it's always recorded.
It is required on ATSC, pretty much wherever it was required on NTSC. But not yet required on satellite rebroadcast. Before Dish started doing its on recoding they had it on HD signals for stations like the CBS HD stations.navychop said:
Dish needs to correct this.
(correction to this became required the beginning of the year, filing date to complain is coming up. Dish would then have a little time to respond or fix it)
Last edited:
tnsprin said:
That's interesting. Can you elaborate on this? i.e. source
There are multiple categories of exemption from the FCC's CC requirements, but I am not aware of a blanket exemption for satellite providers. The most common exemption is for "new" networks - who do not have to provide CC for 4 years from their startup.
Last edited:
We've (a broadcaster) have had tons of calls from Dish users about CC on HD. We have it, but through dish, it is gone. Dish denies this.
As I've stated in previous threads, my contact with Dish says that they are aware of the lack of CC on HD locals and it is due to a software issue.
I am suspicious of this since many of the HD channels (listed below) display the CC as advertised (although at times the captioning is severely out of sync with the video).
For those that continue to advise us (i.e. the hearing impaired) that we must turn the captioning feature on to receive same, we (that require this feature) are more than familiar with what we must do since we watch all of the televised fare we can with CC. I can find and activate the CC feature on most any set or receiver (as I am sure most of us who are hearing impaired can).
Right now I am paying for HD services that I cannot enjoy because when investigating and trying to discuss this issue with CSRs before shelling out for a ViP622 and Dish 1000, I could never get an knowledgeable response. I was even asked why I thought that I needed it!
I never for a moment thought that the HDlocals wouldn't have it, as I had cable for a short time, with their HD package, and CC was broadcast. I no longer live in an area with cable access so this is no longer an option.
I have the FCC complaint information and am waiting for September cut-off to file a complaint. Yeah, I didn't see any CC exemption for satellite retransmission either. Does Direct TV retransmit CC on locals (I believe that they've started offering these also)?
Dish offers something like 29 HD channels but is could be 129, and if not captioned, I (as well as many others) cannot enjoy more than about 7 (TNTHD, ESPNHD, ESPN2HD, HBOHD, SHOWHD, HDNET and NTGHD) of them.
... rab
I am suspicious of this since many of the HD channels (listed below) display the CC as advertised (although at times the captioning is severely out of sync with the video).
For those that continue to advise us (i.e. the hearing impaired) that we must turn the captioning feature on to receive same, we (that require this feature) are more than familiar with what we must do since we watch all of the televised fare we can with CC. I can find and activate the CC feature on most any set or receiver (as I am sure most of us who are hearing impaired can).
Right now I am paying for HD services that I cannot enjoy because when investigating and trying to discuss this issue with CSRs before shelling out for a ViP622 and Dish 1000, I could never get an knowledgeable response. I was even asked why I thought that I needed it!
I never for a moment thought that the HDlocals wouldn't have it, as I had cable for a short time, with their HD package, and CC was broadcast. I no longer live in an area with cable access so this is no longer an option.
I have the FCC complaint information and am waiting for September cut-off to file a complaint. Yeah, I didn't see any CC exemption for satellite retransmission either. Does Direct TV retransmit CC on locals (I believe that they've started offering these also)?
Dish offers something like 29 HD channels but is could be 129, and if not captioned, I (as well as many others) cannot enjoy more than about 7 (TNTHD, ESPNHD, ESPN2HD, HBOHD, SHOWHD, HDNET and NTGHD) of them.
... rab
We get several calls on why none of the local HD stations have CC in this market on DISH. Problem is, this market does not have LIL for HD as yet, and CC on the NTSC side is fine on DISH LIL, here.
RBergmann said:
What "cut-off"? Are you following the notification and complaint timelines exactly? See this resource for some assistance if needed: http://www.nad.org/captioningcomplaint
Sorry, I misspoke when using the term "cut-off". It's my understanding that there are specified annual filing dates for complaints. Here's how I understand that it works:noremac said:
1. File complaint with subject of dispute. In this case it would be with Dish regarding its lack of retransmission of CC on HD (obviously this means that Dish was sent the CC embedded in the source programming).
2. Wait up to 45 days for a response from Dish on this issue.
3. If not satisfied, complaints can then be filed with the FCC at certain times of the year to be reviewed.
Is this somewhat correct?
... rab
Nicu, that's great for HD OTA but how about HD Locals via satellite? Are you using the ViP 622, or the 811 (which also supports OTA HD?Nicu said:
On this same subject, I was contacted by Dish, this week, to explain why the CC wasn't being provided on local HD content. The first call was a voice message that told me the locals weren't providing Dish with the CC info. I called back (talking to a machine) to suggest that the CSR was not given accurate information - at least for San Diego.
The next day, after a lot of verbal dancing he admitted his first information was less than accurate and I was right, however the solution was a problem with the software.
Don't know why the technical department doesn't give better information to its CSRs (at least when the questions themselves are technical).
... rab
Local DISH Channel CC behavior in Houston
This post may not be germane to this discussion, but I notice the following oddities on my DISH local channels here in Houston. For example: I can view the local NBC broadcast on three different DISH channels: 002-00, 6391, and 8372. When viewing 8372, I can see the closed caption; however, on the other two channels, the closed caption does not appear. A similar behavior is observed for the local ABC channels (013-00, 6389, 8370) and CBS channels (011-00, 6390, 8371). My receiver is the ViP622, and the noted behavior is seen on both TV1 and TV2. Is there an explanation for this?
Thanks.
This post may not be germane to this discussion, but I notice the following oddities on my DISH local channels here in Houston. For example: I can view the local NBC broadcast on three different DISH channels: 002-00, 6391, and 8372. When viewing 8372, I can see the closed caption; however, on the other two channels, the closed caption does not appear. A similar behavior is observed for the local ABC channels (013-00, 6389, 8370) and CBS channels (011-00, 6390, 8371). My receiver is the ViP622, and the noted behavior is seen on both TV1 and TV2. Is there an explanation for this?
Thanks.
What I think you'll find is that 002-00 is your OTA (over the air) HD channel for NBC, and channels 6391 and 8372 are, respectively, the HD satellite local feed and SD (standard definition) satellite feeds for this same station. Ditto for your CBS and ABC feeds. This has nothing to do with TV1 or TV2 except for Dish not retransmitting this data and/or not decoding properly with its HD provided fare.retexan599 said:
The issue of this thread is that the ViP 622, and from my past experience with the 811 and OTA, are not showing the CC that is, in most if not all, provided to Dish for rebroadcast.
Apparently Dish has little or no regard for its viewers with hearing impairments, so there is no urgency to correct this (as of this writing). I've complained to Dish several times over the past two or more years, first about the lack of CC on OTA local HD broadcasts and now with the new local HD channel feeds.
... rab
RBergmann said:
622. OTA HD locals via satellite: yes, HD locals via satellite: no. For example - I'm in LA - ABC OTA HD via my OTA antenna on the house and through my 622 is channel 007-1 and CC works, ABC HD via satellite is 6306 and CC does not work.
N
I guess that Dish fixed the OTA HD issue since the last time I could receive with an antenna. I'm in North San Diego County, East of the I-15. Two years ago we owned a house that could receive OTA, but the 811 wouldn't pick up the CC. Complained to Dish then. No response. Now at our new home, we live in an area that has absolutely no line of site to any of the broadcast towers, so I can't explore the OTA option. If I could, this would work for me. As you mentioned previously, the OTA HD captioning might have been fixed with the latest software download L360.Nicu said:
Perhaps retexan559 hasn't received this download yet.
But ... The 6306 is one of the HD locals for LA. Our HD locals are 6407, 6408 and 6409 for ABC, CBS and NBC. Same as you, we do not see CC. This is a Dish problem. Their software doesn't decode the satellite feeds for the locals, for a reason that no one seems to be able to offer.
We can see CC on our SD local channels (8790, 8791 and 8792).
I upgraded specifically for the new HD Locals but without CC, I had to re-map the SD channels to 2, 8 and 39 rather than the HD feeds. And as for VOOM, it's worthless to me as none of their content is captioned.
... rab
Last edited:
