Wiring Help

[Cosmokramer11]

I think my wiring is slowly dying. For the past few weeks when I turn on my receiver the signal and quality level will be from 4-8. I thought maybe it was my Lnb. So yesterday the lnb was frozen I took it off from the roof, hooked it up directly to the Coolsat7100 and my level was at 85. I rehooked up the lnb and now the signal and quality is playing games. It will work for a few minutes but when I move the dish to another satellite the level drops. I even tried hooking the wire to another receiver(coolsat 5000) it does the same thing. I also put a barrel connector to the wiring and that helps for a little bit but then the same problem happens. The wiring is only 20 months old.

 

[AcWxRadar]

I think my wiring is slowly dying. For the past few weeks when I turn on my receiver the signal and quality level will be from 4-8. I thought maybe it was my Lnb. So yesterday the lnb was frozen I took it off from the roof, hooked it up directly to the Coolsat7100 and my level was at 85. I rehooked up the lnb and now the signal and quality is playing games. It will work for a few minutes but when I move the dish to another satellite the level drops. I even tried hooking the wire to another receiver(coolsat 5000) it does the same thing. I also put a barrel connector to the wiring and that helps for a little bit but then the same problem happens. The wiring is only 20 months old.

Hi Cosmo!

I haven't spoken with you for a while. Hope you and your family are all well.

Regarding your signal troubles, you have two obvious and common troubles... Your dish alignment and your cable end connections. Your cable itself should be fine as should your LNBF. Not that they cannot be at fault, but they usually are pretty reliable.

The end of cable connections are the most prone to moisture entry and thus the first places you should check for poor connections. Over time, any connection will grow less and less reliable. You should have drip loops installed and apply dielectric grease to them, but that doesn't always ensure a good connection against time. Just moisture from the air and oxygen will degrade your connections.

Often you can just unplug/unscrew the connectors and reconnect them and be fine again, but that repair won't last as long as the initial installation did. You might have to strip the cable back and install new connectors.

But, you should understand that the connections may not be the one and only problem. It might be that the wind has torqued your dish slightly and put it just a wee bit out of alignment. You can check this easily by just monitoring one of the questionable signals and gently twisting on the dish right/felt/up/down to see if any signal quality improvement can be acheived.

An LNBF failure will generally be exhibited as a massive failure all at once. Not always true, but most often it will be. If it has been a steady signal degradation over time, I would suspect a connection problem. If it occurred almost overnight, and you can pinpoint a storm or wind event, then I would suspect the dish alignment. If there was a major electrical storm and it went totally dead, I would look at the LNBF first. If the signal has slowly been degrading over time, I would suspect the connectors at any point that is outdoors.

RADAR

PS ANother trick you can try is to remove you LNBF and put it in your oven on the lowest possible heat setting for hours. If snow was blown into the assembly, it will be melted away and evaporated. If you have had a lot of hard wind with blowing and drifting snow, this could also be a thing to check.

 

[Mikey11]

sounds like a bad connection somewhere or a faulty switch if your using one....coax cable rarely "goes bad" if ever....

 

[Cosmokramer11]

Thanks for the replies. I am not using a switch, just wire from lnb to my receiver. I think it has something to do with the original primestar lnb. Because when I had my other dish hooked up with my invacom QPH31 I never had this issue. AcWxRadar how could it be my dish alignment?

 

[Mikey11]

replace the ends on your cable and make sure to use weatherproof compression cable ends....do not use twist on type or crimp on type....also inspect your cabling for cracks or breaks in the cover where water might get in....other than a physical problem or physical damage to the cable i have never heard of a coax cable simply "going bad"....

 

[Cosmokramer11]

I figured out my problem. It is the RG6 wire, but its not the wire going from the Lnb. On the SG2100 there is 2 spots for coax cables well the one that says receiver was the wire thats giving me problems. I went out tonight and once again my signal level was around 4. So I went to reset the motor after that I was moving the motor via the button when the motor just stopped. I then noticed that it was because of the wire on the back. So when I got back to my TV I noticed my signal level was the same, I went back up stairs took the wire from the motor and hooked onto the wall mount. I come back downstairs and my signal was back at 75!. So it looks like I just need to replace that wire and I should be all good.

 

[jsattv]

Cosmo, I agree 100% with Mikey11 - make sure the ends of your Coax Cable have the Compression connectors. If not you can sometimes pick up brand new 50, 75, and 100 foot cables at electronic or Auto type stores complete with the solid connectors already on them.

 

[pedrogarcia]

Hi Guys it is really interesting to see your comments on cabling and connectors and having installed dishes around the world, generally common faults seem to be geographic. For most of US above 35N, Europe above 45N and Canada connectors seem to be more of a problem than cable, however south of those latitudes and the Middle east cable problems occur much more frequently and the hotter the climate the longevity of cable reduces quickly, connectors are never a problem.

I think part of the connector problems relate to Chinese, Polish and some US cable having inconsistent thickness outers. On these, the screw on connectors with self amalgating tape seems best. The worst connector to use I have found to be the compression as temperature differentials cause minute gapping which literally sucks in moisture by capiliary action and tightening the compression down hard can cause crushing of the dielectric and alter cable capacitance. Seems to be even more of a problem at Ka and above.
As for standard cable there are vast differences in quality, I personally will never use copper coated steel and prefer copper screen mesh and foil but for some reason the US is far more expensive than Europe and I normally bring in two 100 metre coils with my luggage. For hot climates I find Cavelli cable, far superior, great specs and an outer that lasts 5/6 years. I have used this with screw on connectors and mutiple switches in Michigan now for 4 winters without problems.

 

[AcWxRadar]

AcWxRadar how could it be my dish alignment?

Cosmo,

That was another tangent that I was to set off upon for discussion, but it wasn't a probable one. With specific equipment (dish, LNBF and motor combined) a slight breeze can tilt your dish off or access any slop or play in the motor's gear mechanism and be enough to kill your signal. You would normally notice this much before this time and suspected something was wrong, but not always.

For instance, my own personal system. A temporary, but heavy duty tripod anchored well with 2 foot long 1/2" stakes at the three points. In the spring, the frost went out of the ground and the ground heaved, throwing my dish off level and the slightest breeze killed my signal. When the temperature changed throughout the day, and the wind changed velocity and direction, I would notice dramatic differences in my signal. Enough to cause dropouts, and not only temporary dropouts that I could blame on the wind. Or so it appeared. It was a combination of several factors that were ellusive to me when I actually checked my dish/motor/mast alignment.

Basically, I observed the true nature of the cause of the problem by accident. A gust of wind was able to push the dish and the tripod off alignment, but the perfect condition of the soil's thaw allowed it to return, slowly. The situation was different at night when the ground hardened once again due to the temperature drop and changed again during the day when the sun was shining.

It was difficult to pinpoint at first. Basically, I was kinda chasing ghosts. I would wait until daylight to go out to check my cables and connectors and the dish alignment so that I could see what was wrong. By then, the ground temperature had risen and the dish and tripod fell back into place. So, I found nothing wrong with alignment issues. It was only until I was out at the dish on a "gusty" day that I witnessed the dish moving ever so slightly when the ground was just right.

Do not be surprised if something ellusive like this happens to you at some time. For me, it was like the coyote stealing chickens from me, but I could never catch him at it. I only knew that I was missing chickens.

RADAR

 

[AcWxRadar]

I figured out my problem. It is the RG6 wire, but its not the wire going from the Lnb. On the SG2100 there is 2 spots for coax cables well the one that says receiver was the wire thats giving me problems. I went out tonight and once again my signal level was around 4. So I went to reset the motor after that I was moving the motor via the button when the motor just stopped. I then noticed that it was because of the wire on the back. So when I got back to my TV I noticed my signal level was the same, I went back up stairs took the wire from the motor and hooked onto the wall mount. I come back downstairs and my signal was back at 75!. So it looks like I just need to replace that wire and I should be all good.

Was that wire ever "kinked" or fastened in a way that allowed it to become twisted by the motion of the dish motor? Or, for moisture to "drip" into it via the connector on one end or the other?
Or "zip-tied" too tightly to part of the motor/dish structure?

There has to be some reason, but from my experience, it is typically a poor connection or a poor seal which allows moisture in which creates a bad connection or a kink in the cable or the action of the motor turning which eventually twists and bends the wire to the point of metal fatigue.

RADAR

 

[AcWxRadar]

Hi Guys it is really interesting to see your comments on cabling and connectors and having installed dishes around the world, generally common faults seem to be geographic. For most of US above 35N, Europe above 45N and Canada connectors seem to be more of a problem than cable, however south of those latitudes and the Middle east cable problems occur much more frequently and the hotter the climate the longevity of cable reduces quickly, connectors are never a problem.

I think part of the connector problems relate to Chinese, Polish and some US cable having inconsistent thickness outers. On these, the screw on connectors with self amalgating tape seems best. The worst connector to use I have found to be the compression as temperature differentials cause minute gapping which literally sucks in moisture by capiliary action and tightening the compression down hard can cause crushing of the dielectric and alter cable capacitance. Seems to be even more of a problem at Ka and above.
As for standard cable there are vast differences in quality, I personally will never use copper coated steel and prefer copper screen mesh and foil but for some reason the US is far more expensive than Europe and I normally bring in two 100 metre coils with my luggage. For hot climates I find Cavelli cable, far superior, great specs and an outer that lasts 5/6 years. I have used this with screw on connectors and mutiple switches in Michigan now for 4 winters without problems.

Pedro,

I can see your point well regarding the elements. Especially UV and just thermal degradation. I think that everyone has been witness to a 70's era car dash that has seen too much sun and the elevated temps from not being garaged. Obviously, poorer cable insulation is going to degrade more quickly under these environmental conditions.

I can certainly appreciate your technical experience with different climes/cables and connectors and how they affect the longevity of the cable or the connection. You might just have something there based upon local climate conditions. With a crimp-on connector, it would allow it to "breath" more in certain climates, which could definitely be a benefit. Under certain environmental conditions, that makes sense as we all know what happens to a sealed 55 gallon drum out in a field over time. How does that barrel fill up with water if it is sealed when a totally open barrel will not? AH! A very valid scientific point there.

From what I am accustomed to, it is still the connector or the electrical connection right at the connector that goes bad first. That is a "Nebraska" native speaking about the situation, however.

Now, from my own background information and judgement, I would like to bet that the connector at the end of the cable that Cosmo stated was found to be at fault was either poorly fabricated or moisture was allowed into it making it so, or some part of that cable near that connection was degraded or crimped due to the traveling motion of his motor.

I say this, not because I want to bet that I am right or that you are incorrect Pedro, but because I don't think that Cosmo's cable has been in service long enough for nature's elements to have taken their toll already. Unless it was an existing cable that he reused, one which had more years on it then I expected.

I say so because this is a lot of fun and it is really interesting to feel like I am playing a detective role in this whole thing. It truly is the fun that I derive from simply pondering the "possibilities" that makes this FTA stuff a unique challenge! Oh yes, this is fun, and it is a learning experience all the way. Best thing, is that it makes you think! So wonderful!

RADAR

 

[ZetaMale]

sounds like a bad connection somewhere or a faulty switch if your using one....coax cable rarely "goes bad" if ever....

Coax can go bad if inadequate waterproofing is done. If you get water in the coax it will corrode (the copper wire will turn green) and significantly degrade the signal. The connector and, probably, the coax will have to be replaced in that event. Sometimes the coax can be salvaged but it'll probably need to be replaced if the excess cable length was cut off when the cable was installed.

 

[Mikey11]

Coax can go bad if inadequate waterproofing is done. If you get water in the coax it will corrode (the copper wire will turn green) and significantly degrade the signal. The connector and, probably, the coax will have to be replaced in that event. Sometimes the coax can be salvaged but it'll probably need to be replaced if the excess cable length was cut off when the cable was installed.

what i meant was coax does not "go bad" without a good reason....which is why i suggested checking for cracks in the outer jacket for the reason you stated above....

i have had coax cable outside both buried underground AND outside exposed to the elements and the sun for over 20 years and never had a problem....and where i live it gets over 90F in the summer and down below -20F in winter....

like i said if a coax cable "goes bad" there has to be a good cause and reason for it....

 

[Cham]

I've had best luck with Belden RG6, outdoor crimp-on connectors (with the "0" ring inside) for outdoor connections sealed with self vulcanizing tape around the connector to cable contact point only, and a bit of dielectric grease in the connector before installing. Don't think I have ever changed one installed like this due to failure. Have had to replace cables with the compression connectors though; I suspect some interaction between the connector body and the shield due to moisture. Connectors made with the contact area the same material as the shield (copper?) would likely have less corrosion even if there were some moisture. Basic chemistry; dis-similar metals + moisture creates a reaction.
I do like the compression connectors for indoor applications, and there are likely better compression connectors out there that are better sealed/installed.

-C.

 

[pedrogarcia]

Hi Radar

Hope all's well with you and you are coping with the snow this year (I can say that as I'm is sitting in +20C). You are abolutely right doesn't matter how qualified you can get there is no substitute for experience and local knowledge.
Interestingly when I got my house in Michigan it had direct tv and the previous owner said the signal was not good. the cable connectors were crimped well kind of with side cutters, I wish I had taken photos. the cable had taken in water I rememeber cutting it back to find it had manangeed to get some 8 feet along from the connector. regards

Cham - Great cable choice, Beldon. Self Vulcanizing tape is what I was describing earlier (us europeans always have a different word) The only problem is removing them the tape is so good I just cut the cable and replace if I have to.