Help w/ Extreme Distance Setup

[freetoerror]

Hello All,
I want you to know that I am impressed by the professionalism of the people on this site. Before I ask any questions, I just want to say that I have tried to find the answer to this question by looking through all of the prior pages and even the archived posts in relevant subjects on the site.
That being said, I realize I probably have too much time on my hands.

Anyway, here is the setup I'm wanting to have and my questions about it.

I'm in the midwest and going to have an FTA system installed. I've done some engineering projects in my day so I'm trying to ask intelligent questions.

Here is what I've spec'd, nothing set in stone yet:
1) FTA with a 76cm Winegard with a motor. (Clear Path to southern skies)
2) Universal LNBF, probably a .4 dB model. (Should I get a DBS LNBF?)
3) A tuner with strong blind search capability so I can get the most bang for the buck. (Suggestions welcome).

The problem: The receiver is going to be as far as 500 ft from the dish, down in my basement.

The question I pose to you goodly folks is the following. What do I need to make this work, as far as amplifiers, etc., go. I plan on putting 1 or 2 inline amplifiers in the system, and have heard that I should use RG-11 cable.
Because there are two cable coming from the LNBF, I'm going to have to run 2 cables the full 4-500 ft., and put the amplifiers in each.

I've planned on spending at least $500 to set this up but realize it will probably cost over $1k. That's fine with me, I won't have to pay any monthly fees ever.

Also: Would a larger 1m dish increase my capability of piping the signal down to the basement? Should I use bi-directional amps to get the signal back up to the motor? Or would this not matter...

Thank you beforehand for any help / suggestions you might have.

<<freetoerror>>

 

[PSB]

Hello and WELCOME to the SatelliteGuys.US FTA forum

RG-11 would be best over such a long distance but will add to the cost and require specialized tools and ends.
Quad Shield RG-6 cable may be sufficient and I would say would be worth a try.
I would NOT add any amps to the line in any direction, there should be no need with RG-11 or indeed if you use Quad shield, adding in line amps will just amplify any noise in the line. I have removed more than I have ever installed over the years. When I worked in Cable TV/Modem (spit) installation I ran MANY lines around 400-500' with both of the above cable types, with no problems. (heck I even remember running around a 500' run of regular RG-6 with a DirecTV install some years ago, the signal was lower than usual but worked perfectly and I never did get a call back)

I would recommend getting the 1m dish if at all possible. And as low noise dB QUALITY LNBF as you can find. Sure a DBS LNB can be added or one of the new Invacom CP/LP may fit the bill better and look a whole lot better too. But really there is not too much on DBS satellites FTA to justify the added expense.

All the best and enjoy the set up, its all down hill after that : )

 

[mikekohl]

If you're going 400 or 500 feet, AND MOTORIZING, RG-6 is out...this is way too much distance to push current down an 18 gauge center conductor and expect a DiSEqC motor to work. RG-11 might be OK, but could still be borderline. All the amplifiers in the world will still not solve the problem of current loss in a long cable. If I was doing it, I would consider either .500 hardline cable as a trunking mechanism, or something really crazy:

If you have access to AC power and a sheltered indoor location near your
dish, consider a normal RG-6 hookup, and then output the Ch 3/4 RF signal down a coax (RG-6 is OK if you have a distribution amplifier to crank it up 20-25 dB) to your normal indoor location in the house. Install one of several available infrared extender devices. I did this years ago with a Chaparral
Monterey 100C system, which was controlled with an infrared link on the far end of a 1200 foot RG-6 run.

Just some ideas to avoid spending lots of money and digging into the ground.
RG-6 comes in aerial type with messenger wire, so you could hang it between the outdoor building and your house. The question is...do you have power
and some sort of building near the dish?

Mike

 

[freetoerror]

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly.

PBS: What are a few decent, modern LNBFs?

Mike, I'll respond to your question:
"If you have access to AC power and a sheltered indoor location?"

Yes, I have the capability to plug in hardware inside the building about 75 ft from the satellite up on the roof. At that point and after that it's all indoors and AC power isn't a problem. I just need to get the signal on a TV down in the basement, which as I said is about 400 ft. from the final point that goes to the dish. So I can install whatever apart from where I need to view the final signal down in the basement. I don't understand how I separate the Ch 3/4 RF signal down a coax.

So what you're telling me is that this should be the setup?

[Dish and LNBF]--<75ft>--[Distro Amplifier]--<400ft>--[Infrared Extender] --<5ft>--[Television]

If it is, then I'll be using RG-6 Quad-shielded coax and I have specd out some ac-powered amps,could you tell me which type you are talking about when you say "Distro Amp":

(ok so the URL posting isn't working for me yet. bummer)

FYI: I've spec'd out a HH100 STAB DiSEqC 1.2 HH Mount Motor. I'll be using a 1m dish for more reception vs. the 76cm.


I'm planning on getting a Fortec Star Platinum Blind Search FTA:

(again, can't post URLS, it's what you see if you click on "Receivers" on Sadoun's website.)

Once I can post URLS I'll edit this post.


Your help is greatly appreciated! :

 

[cheddarbob]

My suggestions.. Well, that is a long run and current loss will be a problem with the motor, If you really want reliable operation and have the reciever(s) in the house, I say use RG6 quad sheild at a minimum for signal, rg11 is much better, but more costly, and to power the motor, get a 36volt motor and run the motor controll line to a Vbox, insid the basement, The dish will move MUCH MUCH faster, and you will have more reliable motor control, There are HH mounts that run on the 36volt big dish style control, but mount to your dish like most of the diseqc motors.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Anole]

asking the hard question

Sure are making this difficult.

Can we look one more time at that 400 to 500 foot run between the dish and the receiver?
Just why is that the only place to put the dish?
By putting the dish 100 feet (maybe even 200 feet) from the receiver, a lot of this trouble goes away.

Likewise, locating the receiver closer to the dish helps too....
... as suggested above, you can remote control the receiver, so it no longer has to be in your basement viewing location.

And as a last resort, why is the basement the only place to view the signals?

I understand that some of these are actual requirements, but often by taking a step back, it becomes clear that they are not all cast in stone.