Broken Pansat 3500
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From your first image I would say that C14 looks like it is bad or going to be bad soon, I am going to wait to see what SatinKzo thinks too.
Normally if you replace the capacitors you replace both 13 and 14, it's not to hard to do.
So from what I can see you have a few options.
1. Replace the capacitors. (Might void warranty)
2. JTAG. (Might void warranty)
3. Return your Pansat for repairs to Pansat.
My recommendation at this time if you do not want to void your warranty is to send back to Pansat, otherwise I would recommend changing the capacitors.
He means these:
Normally if you replace the capacitors you replace both 13 and 14, it's not to hard to do.
So from what I can see you have a few options.
1. Replace the capacitors. (Might void warranty)
2. JTAG. (Might void warranty)
3. Return your Pansat for repairs to Pansat.
My recommendation at this time if you do not want to void your warranty is to send back to Pansat, otherwise I would recommend changing the capacitors.
He means these:
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Ah! OK!
Here you go. Can you read them?
Let me know anything else you need.
Qwert, I read your options and am mulling them over as we speak!
Fred
Here you go. Can you read them?
Let me know anything else you need.
Qwert, I read your options and am mulling them over as we speak!
Fred
yeah, that cap look to be going IMO. Everything short of sending it to pansat is gonna void it. heck I think even opening the case will void it, but I don't think pansat actually cares about that.
I think I would send it in. I might cost a bit, but not much IIRC.
There are a couple pansat dealers that do repairs also. I don't know if any of our sponsors do or not, but pansatdirect.net used to do them.
Edit:
yeah, pansatdirect still does them, but they charge $50 now. Used to be $25 I think
http://www.pansatdirect.net/usa/repairs.php
Edit: edit:
then again, replacing the caps is not hard and much cheaper then sending it in.
I think I would send it in. I might cost a bit, but not much IIRC.
There are a couple pansat dealers that do repairs also. I don't know if any of our sponsors do or not, but pansatdirect.net used to do them.
Edit:
yeah, pansatdirect still does them, but they charge $50 now. Used to be $25 I think
http://www.pansatdirect.net/usa/repairs.php
Edit: edit:
then again, replacing the caps is not hard and much cheaper then sending it in.
Thanks guys for your input and advice.
I am going to wait until after I talk to Panarex tomorrow. Course they don't open until 11:00 our time. That's ok, because I have to do some actual work in the morning.
I also want to get Anole's input here. He and I had a nice phone conversation earlier today and then he was going to be out for a while. I'm sure he will respond when he gets back.
It all depends on if I have to pay another $40.00 to send it in. If it is only the shipping, I would send it in without thinking about it. Also, if they tell me they are going to just replace the caps or put in a new MB. My opinion is that this is the second go round, and they need to put in a new MB or PS or whatever is the culprit here.
I know my customers have a very short hair trigger when something goes wrong with a computer or screen that I sell them.
Fred
I am going to wait until after I talk to Panarex tomorrow. Course they don't open until 11:00 our time. That's ok, because I have to do some actual work in the morning.
I also want to get Anole's input here. He and I had a nice phone conversation earlier today and then he was going to be out for a while. I'm sure he will respond when he gets back.
It all depends on if I have to pay another $40.00 to send it in. If it is only the shipping, I would send it in without thinking about it. Also, if they tell me they are going to just replace the caps or put in a new MB. My opinion is that this is the second go round, and they need to put in a new MB or PS or whatever is the culprit here.
I know my customers have a very short hair trigger when something goes wrong with a computer or screen that I sell them.
Fred
I have opened mine up before (It does not have the metallic tamper detection seals like some equipment has) and told them that and they did not care, I sent mine in because when I bought my receiver the SD card slot did not hold the SD card it, you had to hold the card down as you used it.
When I have talked to Pansat, I think its the same guy every time
they have been very laid back and just say send the receiver in, they don't take your information down or give you a RMA numbers.
Yes, they are very laid back and it doesn't matter if you take the cover off or not. I don't know about anything else. The guy told me that the reason they charge the $40.00 is to compensate them for the many dead ones sent in for installation of bad firmware.
He even went so far as to say that even if they have to replace the MB, the charge is still only $40.00 which includes them shipping it back to me.
Fred
He even went so far as to say that even if they have to replace the MB, the charge is still only $40.00 which includes them shipping it back to me.
Fred
Probably a little late to chime in but yeah, C14 definitely looks like it's swelled. Can't tell from the pics but it looks like there may be some ooze from C13 as well. Probably best to change them both IMO. If you have a can of cold spray (or an upside down can of duster) fire it up with the top off, wait for it to act up and spray the caps down with some freeze spray. If it clears up then you know you've found your culprit. If it doesn't clear things up that's still no guarantee that they're not bad, but if it does work it can save some time/aggrevation.
Edit: If you have a scope you could check the DC voltages for ripple...........I'd be changing them either way just to see if it helps, but that's just me. I've been fixing electronics for 15+ years. Anyone with reasonable soldering skills should have no probleml doing a good job of it. The power supply board is only single sided so it's not too complicated.
Edit: If you have a scope you could check the DC voltages for ripple...........I'd be changing them either way just to see if it helps, but that's just me. I've been fixing electronics for 15+ years. Anyone with reasonable soldering skills should have no probleml doing a good job of it. The power supply board is only single sided so it's not too complicated.
Linuxman -
I think you've lucked out here and got some fellows with previous experience with this particular receiver.
What we discussed on the phone yesterday, was general info relating to any such device.
Thanks to the power of the internet for bring us all together, eh? - :up
If I had a camera here that'd do close ups, I'd show you what a leaky electrolytic capacitor looks like.
And by comparison, yours are beautiful !
They do crap out, get hot, generate internal pressure, and expand the nice sealed aluminum case.
That generally is manifested in the top doming instead of being flat.
Sometimes the top comes unfolded and you can see where material has oozed or vented (only in extreme cases).
Generally looks like a medium brown smear, somewhat like ... dried snot.
More likely, they vent first at the bottom near the circuit board.
Your power supply board doesn't look like it has been that well cleaned but tell me, what do you see on the board under C13 at about 1 o'clock in your pictures?
As long as you know how to solder (!) replacing the two caps in question is a no-brainer.
I'd certainly do it in a second.
They represent an insignificant challenge compared to some PC motherboards I've done in the past.
You know of course, that higher voltage or larger value caps won't matter, so feel free to use what you can find.
As suggested, if you have an oscilloscope , monitoring the power supply voltages both at initial (cold) turn-on, and later when the unit gets flakey, is a great idea.
You may recall me mentioning using a volt meter for some checks.
It never occurred to me you might have a 'scope, though!
That header to connect the JTAG is certainly nice.
Normally you shouldn't have to go to that extreme to reflash a unit.
However, if you do, it's a very low-risk solution.
Actually, you use a jtag to fix a problem after a bad flashing job using serial or USB , both of which are low-risk.
The jtag is pretty much zero-risk , and last resort.
Let us know what you choose, and how it turns out.
I think you've lucked out here and got some fellows with previous experience with this particular receiver.
What we discussed on the phone yesterday, was general info relating to any such device.
Thanks to the power of the internet for bring us all together, eh? - :up
If I had a camera here that'd do close ups, I'd show you what a leaky electrolytic capacitor looks like.
And by comparison, yours are beautiful !
They do crap out, get hot, generate internal pressure, and expand the nice sealed aluminum case.
That generally is manifested in the top doming instead of being flat.
Sometimes the top comes unfolded and you can see where material has oozed or vented (only in extreme cases).
Generally looks like a medium brown smear, somewhat like ... dried snot.
More likely, they vent first at the bottom near the circuit board.
Your power supply board doesn't look like it has been that well cleaned but tell me, what do you see on the board under C13 at about 1 o'clock in your pictures?
As long as you know how to solder (!) replacing the two caps in question is a no-brainer.
I'd certainly do it in a second.
They represent an insignificant challenge compared to some PC motherboards I've done in the past.
You know of course, that higher voltage or larger value caps won't matter, so feel free to use what you can find.
As suggested, if you have an oscilloscope , monitoring the power supply voltages both at initial (cold) turn-on, and later when the unit gets flakey, is a great idea.
You may recall me mentioning using a volt meter for some checks.
It never occurred to me you might have a 'scope, though!
That header to connect the JTAG is certainly nice.
Normally you shouldn't have to go to that extreme to reflash a unit.
However, if you do, it's a very low-risk solution.
Actually, you use a jtag to fix a problem after a bad flashing job using serial or USB , both of which are low-risk.
The jtag is pretty much zero-risk , and last resort.
Let us know what you choose, and how it turns out.
Hey Inno and Anole,
I don't have a scope, but I decided to stop by an electronics store in town this morning to pick up a couple of caps just in case. Well I had to get the numbers off them and in order for me to see them, I had to take the PS board out of the unit. Very simple two screws and two plastic retainers that you squeeze together and it pops right out.
After I got the board out, I saw the real problem and it is with C-13. Got the numbers and went to my client, finished up there, and dropped by the electronics store. The owner was a gruff older guy and when I asked if I could buy a couple of caps, he said "I'm in the business of repairing TVs, not selling caps. What are you going to repair?" I told him a satellite receiver. He said, "Well since it ain't tvs, I guess I can sell you some." I showed him the numbers and he came back with two and put them down on the counter. I asked how much, and he said don't worry about, so I got them free.
We talked a little while, and he apologized for being gruff and said he just didn't want any more competition or anyone taking away his existing business. We parted as good friends, and I am sure I can go back there any time and buy more parts.
He also explained about the positive and negative charge and how to find it on the cap and board.
I tried to call Panarex and no one answered the phone. So I am going to give it a shot. C-13 is definitely bad and almost leaking. The worst that can happen is that I have to pay another $40.00 plus shipping to have it fixed. As far as voiding the warranty goes, those who install improper firmware void the warranty, but they can still get it fixed for $40.00.
Take a side view look at C-13 at the bottom between the CAP and the board. Looks like it is ready to dump.
So as soon as I can get a couple of other things out of the way, I am going to put the new ones in.
Fred
I don't have a scope, but I decided to stop by an electronics store in town this morning to pick up a couple of caps just in case. Well I had to get the numbers off them and in order for me to see them, I had to take the PS board out of the unit. Very simple two screws and two plastic retainers that you squeeze together and it pops right out.
After I got the board out, I saw the real problem and it is with C-13. Got the numbers and went to my client, finished up there, and dropped by the electronics store. The owner was a gruff older guy and when I asked if I could buy a couple of caps, he said "I'm in the business of repairing TVs, not selling caps. What are you going to repair?" I told him a satellite receiver. He said, "Well since it ain't tvs, I guess I can sell you some." I showed him the numbers and he came back with two and put them down on the counter. I asked how much, and he said don't worry about, so I got them free.
We talked a little while, and he apologized for being gruff and said he just didn't want any more competition or anyone taking away his existing business. We parted as good friends, and I am sure I can go back there any time and buy more parts.
He also explained about the positive and negative charge and how to find it on the cap and board.
I tried to call Panarex and no one answered the phone. So I am going to give it a shot. C-13 is definitely bad and almost leaking. The worst that can happen is that I have to pay another $40.00 plus shipping to have it fixed. As far as voiding the warranty goes, those who install improper firmware void the warranty, but they can still get it fixed for $40.00.
Take a side view look at C-13 at the bottom between the CAP and the board. Looks like it is ready to dump.
So as soon as I can get a couple of other things out of the way, I am going to put the new ones in.
Fred
I can't tell from your current pictures.
They are a little fuzzy.
In the previous top-view pix, C14 appeared to be bulging quite a bit.
C13 seemed to be bulging less, but might have already crapped on the board.
By all means put the caps in with the correct polarity.
Wonder what the markings on the old ones were (value and voltage)?
And what are the ones you are installing?
If height or diameter of your new parts were a problem, you could leave the leads an extra 1/2 inch long, and bend the parts as much as 90º if necessary.
But if you get that carried away, ya might want to insulate the leads...
Just don't strain or pull the leads where they go into the cap.
They are a little fuzzy.
In the previous top-view pix, C14 appeared to be bulging quite a bit.
C13 seemed to be bulging less, but might have already crapped on the board.
By all means put the caps in with the correct polarity.
Wonder what the markings on the old ones were (value and voltage)?
And what are the ones you are installing?
If height or diameter of your new parts were a problem, you could leave the leads an extra 1/2 inch long, and bend the parts as much as 90º if necessary.
But if you get that carried away, ya might want to insulate the leads...
Just don't strain or pull the leads where they go into the cap.
Here are the numbers:
Old CAPS: GS (M)
85 degrees C
SAMXON
470uF16V
New CAPS: DIGI
105 degrees C
470uf 16V
The lowercase u represents a mu greek letter.
They are the same cap, size, everything, except temperature.
Fred
Old CAPS: GS (M)
85 degrees C
SAMXON
470uF16V
New CAPS: DIGI
105 degrees C
470uf 16V
The lowercase u represents a mu greek letter.
They are the same cap, size, everything, except temperature.
Fred
WooooooooooHoooooooo!!!!
The new ones are soldered in, and it is back in service good as new. Literally!!
It is working as well as it ever has with SQ right where it is supposed to be, and remote works flawlessly again, switching with the ecoda and diseqc switches works fine and video and audio are playing fine. :up
Thank you Anole, Qwert, SatinKzo, and Inno!!!!
You guys are the greatest!!
:clap
What would those of us who don't normally perform this sort of thing do without you guys and this forum?
Here is a pic of the bottoms of the two bad caps. Sorry it isn't clearer, but the one has some brown on it showing it was starting to leak a little.
Thanks again!!
Fred
The new ones are soldered in, and it is back in service good as new. Literally!!
It is working as well as it ever has with SQ right where it is supposed to be, and remote works flawlessly again, switching with the ecoda and diseqc switches works fine and video and audio are playing fine. :up
Thank you Anole, Qwert, SatinKzo, and Inno!!!!
You guys are the greatest!!
:clap What would those of us who don't normally perform this sort of thing do without you guys and this forum?
Here is a pic of the bottoms of the two bad caps. Sorry it isn't clearer, but the one has some brown on it showing it was starting to leak a little.
Thanks again!!
Fred
Now the question of the day while we are on the subject here and for my further education and that of the participating audience.
What did these two capacitors control that made them so important as to stop this receiver from functioning properly?
I know they are part of the Power Supply, but which part of the voltage system did they control?
Edit: You guys fixed it, you just used my hands and eyes.
Fred
What did these two capacitors control that made them so important as to stop this receiver from functioning properly?
I know they are part of the Power Supply, but which part of the voltage system did they control?
Edit: You guys fixed it, you just used my hands and eyes.
Fred
It is hard to tell there exact function with out knowing the schematic of the receiver.
Capacitors can be used used to hold a charge, double or triple the voltage (Not likely in this case) or filter out noise from the system (Most likely in this case).
I have also heard that those two capacitors that are used in the receiver are very cheaply built items and go bad quite often.
Capacitors can be used used to hold a charge, double or triple the voltage (Not likely in this case) or filter out noise from the system (Most likely in this case).
I have also heard that those two capacitors that are used in the receiver are very cheaply built items and go bad quite often.
I would agree that from the symptoms that electrical noise was the culprit.
There seems to be a lot of cheaply built capacitors as SatinKzo mentioned above. I run into it in my business too, but we just return the item to the builder and get another one.
Thanks for the explanation.
Fred
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