Broken Pansat 3500

[Anole]

zero tolerance

the one has some brown on it showing it was starting to leak a little.

That's like saying, "I think the milk is going bad. Here, you taste it!"
Trust me when I say that's way past the freshness date for those buggers!

Well, congrats on a job well done, and a receiver saved from the recycle bin.
Like I said on the phone, all those symptoms suggested something system-wide, which would have a sweeping affect on the receiver.
Something in common with all systems.

I had no idea leaky caps were still such a common problem.
Thought that was all put to bed back in the P3 days , and mostly concerned motherboards with cheap rip-off capacitors.
Big thanks to the guys who knew it was still a current problem.

I'd say they failed due to any combination of the following:
- cheap caps, poorly sealed
- cheap caps, bad electrolyte inside !
- caps overheated due to bad design of board
- caps spec'd below necessary levels for this use
- higher than expected ripple on the high frequency switcher power supply
- bad batch of caps, one production run (not likely)
- engineer didn't know what he was doing
- some penny-pincher changed the part to shave a few cents off cost
- counterfeit parts with wrong vendor/value, to sell crap for a profit (happens in China!)

 

[linuxman]

I had no idea leaky caps were still such a common problem.
Thought that was all put to bed back in the P3 days , and mostly concerned motherboards with cheap rip-off capacitors.
Big thanks to the guys who knew it was still a current problem.

Not long ago my main vendor gave me 3 video cards that had been returned out of warranty. 2 Nvidia AGP 8X - 128 MB TI4200s with bad caps, and 1 Nvidia PCIXpress 256 MB GX6600 that has a bad fan on it. Unfortunately I don't have a system the PCIXpress card will work in, but that may come along soon.

But the bad cap problem is still rampant in computer parts and obviously in some satellite receivers.

Fre

 

[SatinKzo]

Hey, I missed the thread today, but I am glad to hear you got it running again. Fixing the caps isn't hard, but can be scary for those who have not done it or attempted it. Glad we all could be of help.

Yeah, it's really quite surprising how many times I find out a capacitor has crapped out on me on computers at work or other electronics. The newer the stuff is, the more incidents I notice with PC's and PC components lately.

 

[turbosat]

Good deal linuxman, you now have your degree! And , you hold the cure to diarrhea of the capacitor.

 

[linuxman]

Thanks for your help SatinKzo and your offer of the cable and research on the process. One of these days I want to learn how to do that just in case I ever need to.

I have heard that you can turn any of these receivers with the same processor into another brand of receiver using that process. Course then the remote probably wouldn't work along with other things, but I have heard it is possible.

One of the reasons I decided to go ahead an try the soldering route is because I figured it couldn't be nearly as bad as changing out the battery in a 4DTV knowing that if you lost connection, the thing would die in your hands. Compared to that, this was a piece of cake.

Thanks Turbosat. Yes, I can cure the capacitor runs.

Fred

 

[Inno]

The caps in question (470uf@16V) were likely filters for the 12V DC supply. You could confirm this by tracing back from the +12V pin on the jumper which connects the power supply to the main board. Most likely failed because of already mentioned things, poor quality=cheap=puking all over the place and causing all kinds of glitches especially with digital equipment which likes a rock solid DC voltage. For some extra insurance you could install caps with the same capacitance value but with a higher voltage rating. 16V is the absolute maximum you can safely run through them.......no designer in their right mind would do that but 12V is actually close enough to make them fail if it's in a circuit with a high current draw. I know that you've already changed them but for future reference seek out maybe 470uf@25 or even 35V and you should never have to change them again. This is something I did on many TVs, the capacitor is the weak link in many modern electronics......it's one of the only components which really has no substitute with more modern methods. Unfortunately if left too long it can short completely and take out many other components in it's path!

About the gruff old TV repair guy.......he's in a tough business......there's not a lot of servicable sets that are even worth fixing anymore. That's why I chose to get out of it.

Anyway, glad you got it fixed, I know the satisfied feeling you get from doing it yourself! I'm not a computer guy but my the motherboard on my home computer is running thanks to a bank of caps I fabricated and hung in place, running fine for over a year now!
It almost pissed me off to think that you were going to pay someone to fix that........you make me proud!!!!!

 

[linuxman]

Thanks for the explanation and I will remember about the higher voltage if I have to replace any more of them.

Yes I had a great deal of satisfaction from fixing it. I am glad Panarex never answered the phone today because that was what tipped the scale. I ain't going to call 3 or 4 times trying to get a live voice and then beg someone and then have to pay them too. If I am going to pay them, it is going to be the last resort.

But it was only possible because guys like you and the others who took enough time and interest to teach me how.

Fred

 

[voomvoom]

Congratulations on another job done well, Fred! Glad you got it working.

Al

 

[Tron]

Congrats on the fix! It's always a morale-lifter to be able to fix something like that.

As for the bad capacitor issue in newer electronics, the broadcast industry is full of equipment that routinely has capacitor-related issues. I'm sure any broadcast engineer here can attest to that. Extremely expensive (we're talking new luxury car expensive) broadcast VCRs by Sony and Panasonic exhibit these problems on a regular basis, to the point that entire boards must be rebuilt. Check for a rotten fish odor. That's the tip-off for capacitor troubles Unfortunately, in most cases, the caps are the small, surface-mount type that are a REAL bugger to replace...

 

[Inno]

Congrats on the fix! It's always a morale-lifter to be able to fix something like that.

As for the bad capacitor issue in newer electronics, the broadcast industry is full of equipment that routinely has capacitor-related issues. I'm sure any broadcast engineer here can attest to that. Extremely expensive (we're talking new luxury car expensive) broadcast VCRs by Sony and Panasonic exhibit these problems on a regular basis, to the point that entire boards must be rebuilt. Check for a rotten fish odor. That's the tip-off for capacitor troubles Unfortunately, in most cases, the caps are the small, surface-mount type that are a REAL bugger to replace...

Absolutely.........caps are probably the single largest failure even in modern electronics. But look at it from a manufacturer's point of view, if I put in a 16V cap instead of a 25V cap, I'll save $0.005 on each cap, times say 4 caps in each unit for a savings per unit of 2 cents.........not a whole lot to you and I but consider that savings over say 100,000 units. You've just saved $2000! Consider that they will do that with say 40 different components in one unit and you can see why they do it. Yes, they could make them more reliable by putting in beefier parts but for one, they'd never break therefore they'd sell fewer new units and two, all the money they save by cheaping out on some parts. That is why some units (apparently the pansat 3500) problems are common across the board. I'm also glad this thread came up as I have one of those receivers and now I'll know exactly where to look if I have problems.

 

[tvropro]

Here are the numbers:

Old CAPS: GS (M)
85 degrees C
SAMXON
470uF16V

New CAPS: DIGI
105 degrees C
470uf 16V

The lowercase u represents a mu greek letter.

They are the same cap, size, everything, except temperature.

Fred

Hey Fred,

The 105 deg C are better as far as heat goes. Those bad caps were probably draging down the voltage or not taking out the AC ripple well anymore. If I had a dollar for each cap I've changed over the years I'd be a rich man.

Glad you got it up and running again. To protect my 2700 from having issues, I have a UHF remote on the AC power cord and only run power to it when I'm watching it. Less heat longer life on all parts.

When I design and build a circuit I always overbuild as far as parts go. Manufactures don't do that since there trying to make every last penny and even a cent for a part over a million units can add up.

 

[qwert1515]

I also turn my unit off when I am not using it, but to protect it from heat I have placed a 12 volt CPU fan on top of the vents on the right side of the Pansat.

It works well and keeps the unit cool to the touch.

The power comes from the polar rotor control power at the back the "+5" and "GND" since I was not using them.

 

[linuxman]

Thanks Al, Tron, and Tvropro for the encouragement.

I'm actually glad that I had the problem with the unit. It gave me some invaluable experience about CAPS and soldering. It also opened my eyes as to the cost of CAPS. Virtually nothing for us as individuals, but for manufacturers .002 cents over a million units is a lot of money.

I think it might be a good idea to take the cover off these receivers from time to time to blow them out and look over the components with a magnifying glass and replace anything that looks like it might be "growing" in size.

You could also install a small quiet fan on the back of them to keep the air moving and cooler inside.

Course we are talking about units that retail between $100.00 - $150.00. Do we want them to live forever? The next step in technology is just around the corner. Sometimes a failed unit will push the consumer into buying the next step up.

Edit: After re-reading the above paragraph, I had some additional thoughts.

None of us like to be down and not able to view FTA TV. I think that is the single biggest draw-back of the so-called warranty provided with these receivers is the down time.

The next thing is the "strings" attached to most of the warranties. You have to pay in this case for the warranty to be in effect.

The final thought after editing is that WE want to choose when we want to discontinue use of one receiver and buy a different one and we all think that the old receiver should still have some value left in for resale or give-away.

The fact is, most of these receivers are made very inexpensively, and as part of the hobby, we should expect them to not have a terribly long life span. What I just said grates on every thing I have ever believed about a consumer product, but this is the way it is.

Just my thoughts.

Fred