AMC14 The Rescue mission: Lunar Burn may be a reality.

[Andrewwski]

No. An orbit that has an inclination is NOT GEOSTATIONARY.

A satellite can be in a geosynchronous orbit but have an inclination, thus moving north and south of the equator each day. On the ground, it would appear to move up and down in the sky, returning to the same place in the sky only once each day.

The satellite MUST be in an orbit over the EQUATOR to function as a communications satellite.

 

[goaliebob99]

Inclination of a satellite orbit describes the tilt of the orbit plane with respect to the equatorial plane. An orbit with inclination angle of 0º would orbit the Earth in the same plane as the Equator. This is known as an equatorial orbit, and a satellite in this type of orbit follows the Earth's equator. An orbit with an inclination angle of 90º would orbit the Earth crossing the North and South Poles in a plane that is perpendicular to the equatorial plane. This type of orbit is known as a polar orbit. Other satellites are in orbits with inclinations between 0 and 90º.

A geostationary satellite orbits the Earth in an equatorial orbit at an altitude where its period is equal to that of the Earth's rotation (24 hours). The result is that the geostationary satellite turns with the Earth and remains over the same fixed point of the planet at all times. A geostationary orbit is usually circular with an inclination of 0º.

One limitation of a geostationary satellite is that the platform is only useful from the equator up to a latitude of about 70 degrees north and south of the equator. Therefore, to provide communications or other satellite support to higher latitudes, either polar orbiter or highly elliptical orbiters must be used.

 

[rad]

I hate to rain on the parade and hope I am wrong but I have the feeling they will deorbit the bird in order to claim the insurance.

If the insurance company was smart they would pay for the 5 yrs lease time and let AMC kick the bird in to orbit but the legal mumbo jumbo might not allow it. But you know how things are these days....

A big unknown is how long will it take for SES and their insurance companies (if there are any) will take to come to an agreement on the course of action to be taken? Who knows, it could take months for both sides to come to terms on what the settelment will be.

 

[John Kotches]

John, your right about the testing and all, but what I was saying is that its in an inclined orbit over the U.S. Which means the foot print is over Canada/ North Pole ish. Plus the beams are steerable, depening on how the bird gets moved and what position they put it in, they could steer the beams. I'm just trying to apply common sense to rocket science. Now if its physically not possible then thats something different.

Where's the common sense? You've assumed that the satellite is undamaged (even though there's plenty of currently orbiting evidence to the contrary) that the delivery of a satellite to orbit makes the entire mission a fait accompli.

The satellite didn't complete it's burn 2 which is supposed to put it into a circular, inclined orbit. It's in an eccentric inclined orbit.

While you say there is zero evidence to support what I say, there is also Zero evidence to support otherwise. Just because I'm speculating differently than everyone else and I don't see this as doom and gloom for AMC14. I think there is a chance and Everyone is about to get WOWED!

I have stated one solid fact: the functionality of the actual satellite is an unknown. What you've done is called a "leap of faith".

As far as spelling, Im an engeneer/podcast host! I dont spell.

So you take no pride in your written work? Good to know.

 

[digiblur]

An inclined orbit isn't any good to the residential market.

 

[jayn_j]

I would think that any action by the insurance carrier would have to take into account not only the fuel concerns and the operational testing, but also the risk of further failure by doing the additional burns.

Operational condition is unknown, as John has stated. I would also guess that it is not practical to do operational tests in the transfer orbit, so this would need to be a risk as well. So right now you have three major risk factors: burning up all your fuel getting there, additional failures incurred in obtaining final orbit, and unknown operational condition.

The third one is the biggest unknown at this point, and probably the riskiest. All of DISH's failures to this point have been in satellites not becomming fully operational. That may be a significant enough factor that the other risks simply are not worth it.

 

[FitzAusTex]

Wonder what conversations (if any) are going on with E*. I know its not E*'s bird, but perhaps they'll be part of the decision making to scrap or not scrap, if indeed, the bird's even capable of moving itself to its proper orbit. Charlie might not care one way or the other, or he may be begging SES to do whatever they can do to get this done...

 

[mike123abc]

Dish would probably pay up if they could get the satellite in use. Even if it had 1/2 or 1/3 the life, it would be more to Dish to pay up than have to wait 4 years for a new satellite.

 

[Andrewwski]

Inclination of a satellite orbit describes the tilt of the orbit plane with respect to the equatorial plane. An orbit with inclination angle of 0º would orbit the Earth in the same plane as the Equator. This is known as an equatorial orbit, and a satellite in this type of orbit follows the Earth's equator. An orbit with an inclination angle of 90º would orbit the Earth crossing the North and South Poles in a plane that is perpendicular to the equatorial plane. This type of orbit is known as a polar orbit. Other satellites are in orbits with inclinations between 0 and 90º.

A geostationary satellite orbits the Earth in an equatorial orbit at an altitude where its period is equal to that of the Earth's rotation (24 hours). The result is that the geostationary satellite turns with the Earth and remains over the same fixed point of the planet at all times. A geostationary orbit is usually circular with an inclination of 0º.

One limitation of a geostationary satellite is that the platform is only useful from the equator up to a latitude of about 70 degrees north and south of the equator. Therefore, to provide communications or other satellite support to higher latitudes, either polar orbiter or highly elliptical orbiters must be used.

Correct. This satellite would be of little use if any with an inclination other than 0 degrees.

 

[goaliebob99]

Correct. This satellite would be of little use if any with an inclination other than 0 degrees.

Once again wrong.. If you look at lyngsat there are plenty of satellites that have an inclination to them. Hell even G4R has an inclination of 1.5 degrees. E4 over at 77 is inclined by a half of a degree. Intelsat over at 22 degrees W has an inclination of 5 degrees, and is successful at communicating. The limit of inclination before it becomes impossible is 70 degrees. Over at 2 degrees east Telecom 2C is inclined at 4 degrees.

 

[ScoBuck]

I'm just glad that the people steering this thing are NOT the ones posting in here (me INCLUDED).

:

 

[drdroo]

I'm just glad that the people steering this thing are NOT the ones posting in here (me INCLUDED).

:

I'm too busy watching How It's Made over here. They'd have to wait for me to at least watch the new Episode of The Riches before I'd have the time to figure out what to do with the sat..

They're better off having someone else handle it..

 

[HokieEngineer]

The satellite is NOT in a geosync orbit at all. It is in a HEO (highly elliptical orbit) with only very small thrusters onboard to move it. If you really read the AsiaSat timeline, they actually shot it AROUND the moon, and then around the earth again. You have to be careful with the numbers because the satellite is not making a circle but an elipse, so there is a perigee (low point) and apogee (high point) being made around the earth.

HEO sats are useless unless you are the government trying to spy on other governments, or possibly for earth weather collection.

There is no "almost" with geosync. You NEED to be exactly 22,233 miles from the equator in order to maintain a stationary position above the earth. Anything else and the satellite will either drift further and further away from the earth unless it uses its motors or come closer and closer to the earth (earths gravity pull).

 

[John Kotches]

There is no "almost" with geosync. You NEED to be exactly 22,233 miles from the equator in order to maintain a stationary position above the earth. Anything else and the satellite will either drift further and further away from the earth unless it uses its motors or come closer and closer to the earth (earths gravity pull).

Shouldn't there be geosynchronous locations away from the Clark belt? Seems to me as long as orbital velocity (of satellite) == rotational velocity (of planet) you have achieved a synchronous orbit. The distance would vary from equator to poles as the earth is a slightly oblate spheroid.

Notice that I have taken the innate earth bias out by referring to it as synchronous rather than geosynchronous?

 

[Smith P.]

"synchronous orbit" to what ?

"geosynchronous" have exactly meaning.

And no, all other orbits will not serve DTH method delivery of signal ! I don't count gov stations what tracking those non-GSO sats.

 

[qwert1515]

Examples (Looking from an earth station):

Geosynchronous = The satellite will be at the correct location (61.5) once a day.

Geostationary = The satellite will be at the correct location (61.5) continuously (The whole day).

 

[Andrewwski]

Let's clear some things up here:

First, a geosynchronous satellite is a satellite in which the period of the orbital rotation matches the period of rotation of the earth. This means for every one revolution of that satellite, there is one rotation of the earth. Therefore, the satellite returns to the same spot over Earth's surface at the same time each day, or from an observer from Earth, it returns to the same place in the sky every day.

However, the only way to match the orbital velocity to the rotational velocity is to place it within this specific orbital altitude. If you'd like a detailed explanation, I can give one.

Now, a geosynchronous satellite is only geostationary if it has an inclination of zero (it orbits directly over the equator). If it does not do this, it will pass a certain number of degrees (its inclination) above and below the equator on each pass. Why? Because circular motion is always around the center of mass, which in this case, is the center of the Earth.

A geosynchronous satellite without an inclination of zero would not remian stationary in the sky. Rather, it would appear to move up and down in the sky from a fixed point on the ground.

Whether or not this would be of any use, I don't know. But it certainly would not be able to serve its intended purpose.

 

[DishSubLA]

AMC has a pretty good interest in saving the satellite because they will lose the income that Dish would be paying them for leasing the capacity on it. It depends on crunching the numbers because AMC could end up losing more money by not attempting to save the sat. In other words, claiming it a total loss and taking the insurance money may be less $$ gain than trying to save it. Yes, they would have to replace AMC-14 sooner than anticipated, but many satellites have had years taken away from them and are still profitable. The key would be how much life the satellite would have after a presumed success of saving it.

 

[Juan]

The satellite is NOT in a geosync orbit at all. It is in a HEO (highly elliptical orbit) with only very small thrusters onboard to move it. If you really read the AsiaSat timeline, they actually shot it AROUND the moon, and then around the earth again. You have to be careful with the numbers because the satellite is not making a circle but an elipse, so there is a perigee (low point) and apogee (high point) being made around the earth.

HEO sats are useless unless you are the government trying to spy on other governments, or possibly for earth weather collection.

There is no "almost" with geosync. You NEED to be exactly 22,233 miles from the equator in order to maintain a stationary position above the earth. Anything else and the satellite will either drift further and further away from the earth unless it uses its motors or come closer and closer to the earth (earths gravity pull).

How do the SIRIUS satellites provide video without being ina geosync orbit?(back seat SIRIUS video availble in chrysler minivans) I do believe they are in a HEO orbit doing a figure 8 across North America

 

[qwert1515]

I am not sure on the specifics for XM video, but for XM radio and GPS satellites that are not geostationary, use lower broadcast frequencies so that they are not as line of sight.