A concern about Trust

[Sirpaws]

I have to admit I joined this site because I had read Scott's work on the MultiChannel site and was not even aware until the Trust Counts thread that there was another site like this one.

I have not even visited that other site but in watching how the Trust Counts thread be played out I do have some concerns about how this site handles themselves.

On one hand I keep seeing how the folks here talk about how posts are not deleted or censored but yet there is clear evidence and proof that it does in fact happen.

Then closing down the thread when it appeared that those from the other site were having some valid issues also raises some concerns about what can and can not be posted here.

I was turned off by the fingerpointing and namecalling that went on by those on both sides and hate to point this out but it really does not look like anyone is really serious about working together.

Closing a thread down is in itself a form of censorship and disappointing to see.

I am posting this to see for myself if in fact this site walks their talk by allowing someone to question if dissent is in fact allowed here.

Right now I have some doubts.

 

[ScottChez]

So are you saying that if this thread is closed or edited then you will have your answer?

 

[Sirpaws]

So are you saying that if this thread is closed or edited then you will have your answer?

In part yes I will because the response will be kind of clear BUT what in my eyes is going to tell more is if the finger pointing, the name calling and the accusations stop and people make a real attempt to work together.

Let us see if people ON BOTH SIDES will walk their talk and make a serious attempt to work together instead of glossing over old wounds, old feuds and make an adult attempt at making people from both sites welcome at both sites.

I have no agenda here other than as a Direct Customer to see anything that improves the quality of service for all of their customers. Yes it is a selfish concern to have since I am locked in for the next 2 years I want to see both sides working together to help improve Direct.

If both sides can find a way to actually work together then everyone will win.

If not then I bet the warfare will get down right nasty FROM BOTH SIDES.

And then there would be a good chance that Direct will drop one or perhaps both sides and who wins there?

 

[rockymtnhigh]

Dissent is welcome, but if Scott chooses to close a thread, that is his prerogative; he owns this site, and believed that the thread had run its course.

If others see this thread as an opportunity to continue a thread that Scott had closed, I will close it.

 

[Hall]

I think that "trust" was a poor choice to use....

 

[Sirpaws]

Dissent is welcome, but if Scott chooses to close a thread, that is his prerogative; he owns this site, and believed that the thread had run its course.

If others see this thread as an opportunity to continue a thread that Scott had closed, I will close it.

I started this thread to express concerns I had over what I was seeing. According to this message regarding what this area of this site is I was within the rules.

Have a question, comment, suggestion or problem with SatelliteGuys?

I was NOT trying to continue a thread I was expressing my concerns as within the rules.

Why the reaction with a threat?

Hall

I simply used the name of the original thread

 

[LonghornXP]

Just keep in mind that the DBSTalk issue has been brewing for many years and got out of hand because of emotions. We are human and these types of "events" occur often in everyday life. We would like to work with DBSTalk but we here at SatGuys have a big problem when another site bans or edits posts about a product being tested that has any type of major issue. The problems in the past were due to only posting all the good things and not the major problems with the software. As long as another site had access to the CE program this issues can be noted without any type of edit even if the bug makes DirecTV look a bit bad.

Remember most users on both sites are big "fans" of this stuff and as such they are spending big time bucks and they aren't happy if many bugs are present in a public release of their boxes software because those bugs were withheld to the parties that need to know or get delayed. This was one of the major problems that ticked some of us off. Also many staff members were banned for no other reason than being a SatGuys staff member which isn't right either but its their site and their choice.

But we don't think that customers paying hundreds of bucks want a group of people like that being in direct control of what bugs our boxes will or will not have at different stages of national release.

Also with regard to SatGuys we do have rules which will result in a deleted post/thread and even banning but the user must go out of their way for this to occur.

Also many threads are closed when they reach a point when its a neverending back and forth of the same exact stuff being said which only leads to more flame wars. These are closed because they are no longer expressing an opinion but a flame war.

Beyond that if you go out of your way and attack a member on a personal level you will be banned because that is going far enough. If a thread gets heated but not to the point of a flame war it has a high chance of staying open as long as things don't get out of hand.

Just keep in mind that every website and person can have a bad day as we sure did have but the true test of any community is how they treat their members over the course of each and every year and I'm proud to say we strive to be great at this and we do succeed far more than not.

I hope this post gives anyone reading a better understanding of what happened and how we really are. Hey don't take out word for it just wait for a while and see for yourself. If you think we aren't doing well or as good as we could please drill us on it without question.

 

[LonghornXP]

I started this thread to express concerns I had over what I was seeing. According to this message regarding what this area of this site is I was within the rules.

Have a question, comment, suggestion or problem with SatelliteGuys?

I was NOT trying to continue a thread I was expressing my concerns as within the rules.

Why the reaction with a threat?

Hall

I simply used the name of the original thread

The old thread was considered towards the end as being a flame thread and as such if the new thread continued with the flaming it would be closed. Flaming however is against the rules in all parts of this website.

This thread however doesn't continue the flame from the old thread and does indeed included your concerns and as such is fully within the rules for this forum. I mostly agree with your concerns as things could have been handled better but alas we again a humans with those darn fricking emotions. They always mess everything up don't they lol.

We fellow staff and members do hope you can allow us more time to prove that we do walk the walk.

 

[shibby191]

We would like to work with DBSTalk but we here at SatGuys have a big problem when another site bans or edits posts about a product being tested that has any type of major issue. The problems in the past were due to only posting all the good things and not the major problems with the software. As long as another site had access to the CE program this issues can be noted without any type of edit even if the bug makes DirecTV look a bit bad.

Pretty obvious that you haven't been following the CE threads or just posts in general over there for the past couple years. That's what the CE program is all about, posting about problems and major issues. These things are posted *all the time* and have been for years. In fact there are posts every week about "I see all these posts about problems, should I be worried about my upgrade?". To me that indicates right there that problem posts are more then welcome even if you haven't done the minimal amount of research to see it for yourself.

No idea where you (and others) keep getting the idea that problems can't be posted there...

 

[SatelliteGAL]

Pretty obvious that you haven't been following the CE threads or just posts in general over there for the past couple years. That's what the CE program is all about, posting about problems and major issues. These things are posted *all the time* and have been for years. In fact there are posts every week about "I see all these posts about problems, should I be worried about my upgrade?". To me that indicates right there that problem posts are more then welcome even if you haven't done the minimal amount of research to see it for yourself.

No idea where you (and others) keep getting the idea that problems can't be posted there...

Wait, am I confused? I thought in your first post you said you didn't even know that site existed. Now you have been following posts over there for "the past couple years". ?????

 

[goaliebob99]

Wait, am I confused? I thought in your first post you said you didn't even know that site existed. Now you have been following posts over there for "the past couple years". ?????

That was sirpaws that said that, not shibby.

 

[SatelliteGAL]

lol So I am confused! geesh Too much holiday already

 

[rockymtnhigh]

lol So I am confused! geesh Too much holiday already

That's ok SatelliteGal!

 

[Sirpaws]

The old thread was considered towards the end as being a flame thread and as such if the new thread continued with the flaming it would be closed. Flaming however is against the rules in all parts of this website.

This thread however doesn't continue the flame from the old thread and does indeed included your concerns and as such is fully within the rules for this forum. I mostly agree with your concerns as things could have been handled better but alas we again a humans with those darn fricking emotions. They always mess everything up don't they lol.

We fellow staff and members do hope you can allow us more time to prove that we do walk the walk.

Fair enough Longhorn as I do want to see what the "walk the talk", I understand that emotions do at times get the best of people but I think even you would understand that from an appearance standpoint that was not happening here.

My hope is exactly that people take a step back, try to put aside past differences to work together. Granted for some people (not saying who) there might be times where co-existing will hit bumpy roads but if the effort is made then that is all one can ask for.

However I do want to point out that staff members should be expected to show more restraint in how they respond.

Your response was what I was looking to see but the response from rockymtnhgh was kind of what is wrong. I view his response as part of the problem as it came across as a "knee jerk" response that inflamed not discussed as your response did.

Thank you for responding as you did as now I do understand the situation better.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

One thing to remember is that none of us are paid. We do this because we love the industry, the technology and we love helping others.

There are times when all the staff will do something when looking back on things wasn't the best thing to do. But ultimately its ok we are human we make mistakes.

And even though we do mistakes, I am happy as it shows we are not mindless drones under control of anyone or any company. Just because we are all "staff" does not mean that we can have opinions. And opinions are just that... Opinions.

Thanks for being SatelliteGuys.

 

[Hall]

Scott, it wouldn't hurt for the staff to step back and take a breathe and think about their responses before posting them. Whether you or they believe it or not, users hold them to higher standards (of professionalism and maturity) and a recent thread showed that very, very clearly and when they cross that line it's just a "mistake" because they're "human" ? I admit, I don't know a solution though.... They have their opinions and can state them like everyone else. The situation where the staff member banned a user and told them to "go back to DBSTalk", I think, really, really hurt the credibility of the staff. That, from the eyes of users, was brushed under the rug.

I hate to think of a scenario like Howard Forums (maybe ... or is it doom9 or similar ??) where they have (2) logins, one as "Moderator # 23" and one as "Scott" or whoever. When they're enforcing the rules, they do so logged in as a mod.....

 

[Lkr]

ahh censorship. see, Scott can censor you all you want. It is his site. I have no problem with this site, or any other site related to satellites. I come here for the lovely community, everyone is helpful, and nobody is uptight. Scott has locked one of my threads before, and it was because I made a mistake. I don't hold a grudge against him, and theres nothing I can do about it. Of course, it was a dumb thread mind you. Also, you have no rights here. Scott technically is a dictator.

 

[Hall]

ahh censorship. see, Scott can censor you all you want. It is his site.

Also, you have no rights here. Scott technically is a dictator.

You didn't read ANY of the threads on this "topic" at all, have you?

 

[Mr Tony]

you're asking rhetorical questions again hall

 

[Neutron]

First off, Scott is not a dictator. All of us who are staff gets say in what goes on around here.

Second, Hall you are one to talk. I think you have the record for the most times the report post button has been utilized....