Trust Counts... A Note from SatelliteGuys Founder Scott Greczkowski (1 Viewer)

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Scott Greczkowski

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This past weekend 20+ SatelliteGuys members were lucky enough to spend two hours with Dish Network CEO Charlie Ergen and Senior Vice President of Programming Eric Sahl. Those folks lucky enough to attend got to hear from these executives totally unscripted, totally honest, 100% uncensored and totally open to our questions.

Why did these guys open up to us? Because they trusted us not to post details of this private meeting on the Internet. TRUST COUNTS.


As you might have seen recently we gave our readers another SatelliteGuys First Look with our “Premiere Review: The DirecTV SWM LNB.” SatelliteGuys staff member Jason Crandall known as “Masterdeals” wrote this review. The review was based on his own findings in testing out the LNB for over 3 months.

The decision to release our review was made after we received word that DirecTV HSP’s now were getting inventories of this amazing LNB. In posting this review we did so without violating any of the rules of the testing program.

It seems as though another website was very upset at us posting our review before they posted theirs and these folks filed a complaint with DirecTV about our review. Here is a portion of this complaint to DirecTV for your review.

Field Trials of new equipment or software have always included very strict rules of non-disclosure until DIRECTV releases the information. And DBStalk, when hosting a field trial, has been required to send drafts of the reviews to DIRECTV for approval prior to publishing. Usually as one of the first announcements of the new equipment or service. These rules were not onerous, rather sensible guidelines for a good healthy working relationship. We would not be getting the advanced information from DIRECTV if we didn't honor the agreements.

And the rules for gross violators were also clear: no more participation in
future Field Trials or beta tests.

It would appear that Satelliteguys might not be holding to the same standard,
nor are its field testers honoring the same non-disclosure rules.

Yesterday, Satelliteguys published a "Premier Review" of the DIRECTV SWMLine dish which is still under Field Trial Rules at DBStalk. None of the field testers are permitted to share or publish information as of yet, according to our current DIRECTV information.
I have a few problems with the statements made in this complaint to DirecTV, first I am told that there was no non disclosure agreement required by anyone in these tests, thus there was no violation there. Secondly again we waited until the product was released before posting our review.
Third and most concerning to me is the fact that DirecTV is not only approving DBSTalk’s draft reviews of the product but DirecTV has also requested that edits be made to their review before they would approve it! (And in case your wondering I have this in writing, I am not just talking out my butt here.)

My question to the entire satellite community is how can the folks at DBSTalk call their review a review is it is essentially a review written by DirecTV? From where I sit all of DBSTalks credibility has been shot out the window as it appears they are nothing more then corporate puppets for DirecTV!

Jason’s review for SatelliteGuys was his own heart felt review, which I felt was really well done. Yes it did contain a mistake where Jason noted that the first SWM switch was a 5 port switch when it was actually an 8 port switch.

I have also seen that a number of folks over there are upset that Jason mentioned that you can diplex with the SWM LNB. While you can indeed diplex with the SWM LNB it is NOT recommended or supported by DirecTV. What I find funny about the folks upset about Jason mentioning that it does work with diplexing is that these same folks who are complaining are also the same people who have posted in the private field test forum at DBStalk that they too are diplexing using the SWM LNB.

Jason’s review also contained a few small spelling mistakes, but you know what I liked it. That review was Jasons true feelings about what he feels is an excellent product.

It also appears that that a number of folks are saying that I was the one who wrote the review. This is not the case at all; I unfortunately do not have a SWM LNB. Nor not until recently did I know that Jason was one of the lucky folks selected to test this LNB.

Since CES SatelliteGuys has started building a great relationship with DirecTV, and I have been in contact with DirecTV yesterday and I can see this relationship growing.

I have asked DirecTV for equal access to everything that DBSTalk has access to, and it is something they are working on making a reality for us.

Our philosophy here is we just want to provide our readers and members the satellite industry information they want. I understand that not everyone wants to read SatelliteGuys and would rather get their information from another site and I have no problem with that, but I also understand that folks would rather get their satellite information from one place, and that place is SatelliteGuys.US. And because of that I will take any action that I must to insure that the information is made available to our members.

I am sure a number of folks will say that my words and actions could cause an end to the CE program; I personally don’t see that happening. Sure DirecTV can take their ball and go home but that wouldn’t help anyone. The CE program is an excellent program and for the most part has been well run, Earl did a great job in getting things running. SatelliteGuys has been happy that we have been getting into the CE program and we will continue working to expand our role to make the CE program better for all.

Now I should note that I am working on a few exciting things and honestly I would like this work to include DBSTalk and their members on some of the things I am working on. Honestly the folks at DBSTalk are not bad guys, in fact I have enjoyed working with the DBSTalk guys at places like CES. We just have a different way of doing things, and ultimately that may not be a bad thing. We need to start working together. I fully understand this and have no problem with this. But for to work then both sites need to cut the crap (and I will be the first to admit we are not innocent either.)

To do this it is going to take work and most importantly trust.

I will do what I can to make this happen, but this is a two way street. I can see some exciting things happening for both of our sites if we work together.

I know that some folks will say how can you want to work with these guys after what I posted earlier in this message. If you know me, you know I always tell it like I see it. I felt I needed to show our members what’s really going on behind the scenes. Yes what happened might not be pretty, however the way I look at things I am the kind of person who would rather look ahead then look back at the past.

The way I am looking is forward and I can see some amazing things coming down the line and that should be exciting for all satellite technology lovers out there. So today I offer the olive branch, lets both move on forward and ahead together. All the parties involved know how to reach me, lets see where we go together.

Now in closing let me make a promise to all the SatelliteGuys member, no matter what happens SatelliteGuys will continue to tell you the latest satellite news, rumors, talk and information. We will continue to call it as we see it, and when we review things the review we post will always be our own words. You have our word on that.

Trust us… Trust Counts!
 

aperry

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 26, 2003
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Third and most concerning to me is the fact that DirecTV is not only approving DBSTalk’s draft reviews of the product but DirecTV has also requested that edits be made to their review before they would approve it! (And in case your wondering I have this in writing, I am not just talking out my butt here.)

My question to the entire satellite community is how can the folks at DBSTalk call their review a review is it is essentially a review written by DirecTV? From where I sit all of DBSTalks credibility has been shot out the window as it appears they are nothing more then corporate puppets for DirecTV!

Jason’s review for SatelliteGuys was his own heart felt review, which I felt was really well done. Yes it did contain a mistake where Jason noted that the first SWM switch was a 5 port switch when it was actually an 8 port switch.
Truth be known, the "edits" that DirecTV is requesting that DBSTalk make may just be for issues similar to what Jason had to correct. Just because DirecTV is reviewing the review first does not necessarily make DBSTalk into corporate puppets for DirecTV...
 

Drone35

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Jun 3, 2005
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Scott, this is why I'm a paying customer here at Satelliteguys, u guys have always been strait shooters, good or bad! Don't no why anybody would want to go somewhere else for their satellite information, u guys are the real deal!! Thats why I respect u guys not being able to talk about the private talk with Charlie, if he'd wanted everyone to know he would have posted it here on Satelliteguys himself! :) Trust is a big deal when things are talked about in private! It is good that he is trusting you and some of the guys that were there with this information, it could be a test to see if he can trust you!! Keep up the good work, we will be listening! :)
 

rad

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I have a few problems with the statements made in this complaint to DirecTV, first I am told that there was no non disclosure agreement required by anyone in these tests, thus there was no violation there.

Scott, as someone that's participated in 4 pre-release testing programs via DBSTalk all I can say is while we don't sign any NDA's we are all asked to not say anything about what we are testing until we've ben given the OK from the mods in the D* forums. It's fairly self policing since if someone does spill the beans early chance are good they won't be asked to do any further tests.

As for the issue of D* getting to review the 1st looks first, we get to see what's been submitted to D* prior to release and so far I haven't seen any heavy handed editing by D*.
 

Scott Greczkowski

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Aperry, there is more to it there which I could go into, but I would rather not. I wish it was as simple as that though.
 

tigerfan33

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One one to descibe you and this site Scott.

It is exciting that Direct wants to open up more to you.:)
 

richiephx

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Feb 1, 2006
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Not knowing any details of this communication, it sounds to me to be very political in nature and it is not my intent to turn this into a political debate, but, it sounds to me that DBSTalk and SatGuys are like the Democratic and Republican parties. We all know that working together gets results. We all know that politics is unproductive. Both internet sites should work together to do what's best to improve satellite delivery to it's subscribers and, playing politics, does nothing to help that common cause.
 

Widescreen

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Feb 14, 2006
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Scott said:
From where I sit all of DBSTalks credibility has been shot out the window as it appears they are nothing more then corporate puppets for DirecTV!

This happened a long time ago. I love satelliteguys because you can actually speak your mind. At the other site, anything deemed uncomplimentary to Dish is vehemently criticized.
 

jcrandall

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I enjoy participating in the CE process, which is why I work hard to keep everyone up to date here at Satelliteguys, including things like spending my money and vacation time to make trips like CES. Helping other users, especially new customers, is something I really enjoy.

My understanding in regards to non-disclosure is that when the product is available to the public than the field test is over. I wrote my review, and then waited for public release before posting my review of the SWM LNB, which I think is an excellent technological revolution.

I believe this was resonable, and was an attempt to provide timely information to our members. I meant no harm to DirecTV, and I don't believe there is any given that HSPs are now installing this LNB.

With that said, I hope DirecTV will continue to give us the opportunity to test new products and software, providing feedback, and inform our members of new technology. Scott, myself, and many other staff members have been working hard to grow our relationship with DirecTV, and will continue to do so.
 

harshness

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May 5, 2007
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The SWM-5 wasn't the first FTM capable switch (by almost two months)?

Did DIRECTV approve of Earl Bonovich posting pictures and a review of the SWM-5 in January 2007 or not? I would think that if it doesn't exist, that DIRECTV wouldn't have allowed such a thing. Was permission granted to post pictures of the SWM-8 in March 2007?

If everything depends on what DIRECTV announces, then how is it that they announce exciting products like the HMC, VOD for the R15 and DirecTV To Go that seem like they'll never make it to market?

Does eSATA capability exist in the (H)R2x series or not? There's no mention of it on their website, in press releases or even in the product manuals.

Does the HR21-Pro exist?


Is this about DIRECTV, or is one rival making up stuff to discredit the other because they got scooped?
 

darrencp22

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Aug 10, 2007
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It all comes down to this I guess. SatGuys is THE place for E* info. The guys over at DBS talk are getting nervous there might be a relationship building between SatGuys and D*. This threatens their existance. Those guys are snobby arrogant puss holes for the most part and very controlling. At satguys you can be yourself and not be parented by the mods. You get unbiased cutting edge info here. If SatGuys can get good exposure from D it is over for them... and I say good riddence!
 

mikew

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Scott...

You run a very interesting site and I've come here for years. I really feel that the posting you've just created is exactly why DBSTalk is trusted by DirecTV for exclusive testing. Although you "tell it like it is..." there's times when saying nothing at all would be better....this is one of those cases. I really doubt the sincerity of blasting another website, then offering "the olive branch". I'm truly disappointed that DirecTV doesn't seem to share their CE offerings with this site equally. Take, for example, the latest offerings...Video Share to the PC and "Daily Fortunes". Sat Guys was not the first place to come for this info, nor are you offering testers up to DirecTV for the Video Share. DBSTalk, for whatever reason, owns the entire Video Share program. Invites are coming solely from them. You have to sit back and ask yourself...why is this true? I'm willing to bet, once again, that this type of posting is what created the rift.

It is your playground and, like I said, I do enjoy coming here. I enjoyed it much more when I was a Dish Network customer. I simply believe there are better ways to "open the door".
 

jcrandall

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Mikew - I didn't post much about the daily fortune as it is simply an Easter Egg. The access to the network services menu is worthless without the video share program.

Regarding the video share program, Scott, myself, and Goaliebob had several communications with both DirecTV and DBStalk asking that our members be allowed to APPLY for this test, using the same restrictions they set forth (3 months post history) and we were denied.

While I have a lot of feelings about this, there is not much more to be said than that. We have tried to open this door to our members and agree to follow the same rules.
 

mikew

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Mikew - I didn't post much about the daily fortune as it is simply an Easter Egg. The access to the network services menu is worthless without the video share program.

Regarding the video share program, Scott, myself, and Goaliebob had several communications with both DirecTV and DBStalk asking that our members be allowed to APPLY for this test, using the same restrictions they set forth (3 months post history) and we were denied.

While I have a lot of feelings about this, there is not much more to be said than that. We have tried to open this door to our members and agree to follow the same rules.

"Fortune" is currently an "Easter Egg", but appears to be something that will be more important in time. It is the essence of the CE. We blindly download something, see what the effect is, report abnormalities and, occasionally, we are rewarded with new features. Brushing off the "Fortune" is not wise if the CE program is going to be successful here. Who is going to decide which items are important and which ones are not? We've seen that the guys at d* running the CE program are interested in folks who will apply the same sense of urgency to a test no matter what goodies it results in.
 

drdroo

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Sep 20, 2005
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Well Scott, could always aim and hope for a Satelliteguys CE program for Dish.... I've been hoping for one for a long time. :)
 

jcrandall

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"Fortune" is currently an "Easter Egg"....
Brushing off the "Fortune" is not wise if the CE program is going to be successful here.

I did not brush it off, it was mentioned in the notes and I anwsered questions about it:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/directv...m/135732-hr20-all-ce-release-5-16-5-17-a.html

03 - Daily Fortune Easter Egg (Keyword Search "POKEEYENOW"
04 - Some receivers may have trouble booting with network cable connected, especially if you run the "POKEEYENOW" Easter Egg.

Post 12: The easter egg will let you access a network services menu and manually configure your ports instead of the receiver using UPnP with your router. The second thing, it adds a daily fortune to your menu, similar to those in fortune cookies. The first part being a good add-in that some may need, the swcond part is unnecessary, and hopefully didn't take long to code.

Post 14: The network services would let you assign ports for the upcoming media-share software that will allow you to view programs on a computer. It is just starting beta-testing right now. This way, you can configure ports if you do not use UPnP. Right now, it is just a silly fortune cookie.


And as for the comment on "silly fortune cookie" - I stand by that :)
 

goaliebob99

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Aug 5, 2004
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-.-. .... .. -.-. .- --. ---
"Fortune" is currently an "Easter Egg", but appears to be something that will be more important in time. It is the essence of the CE. We blindly download something, see what the effect is, report abnormalities and, occasionally, we are rewarded with new features. Brushing off the "Fortune" is not wise if the CE program is going to be successful here. Who is going to decide which items are important and which ones are not? We've seen that the guys at d* running the CE program are interested in folks who will apply the same sense of urgency to a test no matter what goodies it results in.


Mike, I didnt even know about the Easter Egg untill I saw it posted over there. That is information D* gave to DBS Talk but not us. What we are asking is that D* share that same information with us equaly. TRUST ME If they would have shared it with us it wouldnt of been brushed off. We have asked for equal access for all no matter what site a person may be apart of. We want the CE program to survive, and also we want to give someone an alternative place to go if they want to particpate in the processs.
 
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