My Birdog is Lying To Me

[highdefjeff]

I've not been able to find any meter that can discriminate between all of the Dish birds. Your compass becomes your friend.

Regards, Eric

Super Buddy does. But I still prefer dual analog. Faster and easier.

 

[highdefjeff]

My gosh, maybe I don't need to remember about the D+ since my shop doesn't seem to carry them. (Seattle)

How do you use the dual analog? I guess they only sense carriers and can not digitally lock? Do you turn the dish until you get both, and assume they are 119+110? How do you get 129 reliably? Brands? Certainly can't afford a SuperBuddy.

Use is described here:

Super Signal - How to get the best satellite signal possible!

Any questions, just ask.

 

[jckm78]

I saw that last night on birdog.tv. I have never seen 119, although next time I'll try DiseqC LNB A.

Don't understand what you mean by '110 port'. I've only used the DPPlus and DPquad; these seem to have agnostic ports. Still never saw 119, probably because it hadn't been switched there by DisEqc .

The 129 setting has always worked fine, as long as I'm careful to make sure it's not stupidly reading 119. How can it digitally lock onto 119 when set to 129, is what I do not understand. It's supposed to be reading the packet headers.

I'll try to find the User's Guide and read the Dish-relevant sections.

The left most port for the twin, twin pro, twin plus, quad, quad pro is designated to 119 unless use put it on DiseqC LNB B, The second port on the lnb is designated to 110.

If you using a dual lnb to point and still can lock in to 119, then there is something wrong with you meter or you need to upload the satellites to your birdog again.

Good luck on Dishnetwork.

 

[Quantum]

OK, I've just discovered that the Dish500+ is a completely different antenna. I thought it was just a different LNB. Now I see what you mean by different ports for different birds, as there is no internal switch.

Thing about the Dish500+ is that it's not clear which pickup is at the center of the dish. I would use this one to set Az & El, and then figure out which one is at the far end of the dish and use that to set skew. Anyone know?

BTW, the Birdog is working superbly, now that I know about holding the On button to get the secret DisEqc menu.

I am studying highdefjeff's writeups now, although there is alot there and I have little time.

 

[highdefjeff]

OK, I've just discovered that the Dish500+ is a completely different antenna. I thought it was just a different LNB. Now I see what you mean by different ports for different birds, as there is no internal switch.

Thing about the Dish500+ is that it's not clear which pickup is at the center of the dish. I would use this one to set Az & El, and then figure out which one is at the far end of the dish and use that to set skew. Anyone know?

BTW, the Birdog is working superbly, now that I know about holding the On button to get the secret DisEqc menu.

I am studying highdefjeff's writeups now, although there is alot there and I have little time.

Center Lnb is 118.7/119 and outer is 110. You don't adjust skew. Set skew as recommended and leave it. 118.7 is the weaker satellite. It needs to be peaked and then check 110 to make sure it is still good. 119 will be good if you've peaked 118.7.

The 500+ is just like the 1000+ in my avatar only without the 129 satellite. See
http://www.wowvision.tv/whatdoesadishsee.htm and click the 1000+ pic

 

[Quantum]

Thanks Jeff. We do not use the Superdish or 1000+/.2 here, although I've noticed a few around. Instead we install a 500+ and a 129 wing dish. (headache)

Seems though, if we did install a 1000.2, 129 would be on the other side of 118.7, and would be a bit more sensitive than using 110 for skew? On the Direct KaKu we had to peak skew as the Q is very high for the Ka band. (peaky) I'll be checking skew with 110 to see whether it's worth messing with here in the Great PacNW.

I've studied about half your instructional pages, and this dual meter just strikes me as 'pre-war'. (And I don't mean Viet Nam) Too much fiddle. Now that I know how the Birdog handles this I've got things pretty well down, and I especially value it for 129 and 105, although it stupidly can't tell from 119 and 129.

Too bad there's not a cheep compact LCD version of the dual analog, even though it can't discriminate digital stream.

 

[highdefjeff]

Thanks Jeff. We do not use the Superdish or 1000+/.2 here, although I've noticed a few around. Instead we install a 500+ and a 129 wing dish. (headache)

Seems though, if we did install a 1000.2, 129 would be on the other side of 118.7, and would be a bit more sensitive than using 110 for skew? Could you clarify this sentence, please?


On the Direct KaKu we had to peak skew as the Q is very high for the Ka band. (peaky) I'll be checking skew with 110 to see whether it's worth messing with here in the Great PacNW.

quote]

You keep referring to skew. Skew is a set value. What is is that you are trying to say? Are you talk in about elevation or azimuth?

 

[pabeader]

skew is a set value? Not on Dish network dishes since the 500 was introduced. you have a 3rd adjustment to rotate the dish about it's feedhorn related axis. This is the skew.

 

[Quantum]

Right, the idea is that I want to use whatever LNB is at the -center- of the dish (and it could be any of them), for az and el adjust. Once that is set I then want to use the most outlying LNB to fine-tune skew. This way I can use a single-channel meter like the Birdog to get a precise result.

I have found that holding down the power button and selecting the right DisEqc burst works very well on the Birdog, with the DishProPlus. Solved numerous problems and done many service calls with this. However I now find that after the 3-4 or 4-4 switch I can not see my birds, I guess because the switches do not pass DisEqc. So I have no idea how to sort out wiring inside a house when a switch is involved.

Also yesterday I came across a Dish500 with two duals which was aimed at 149 for Hindi. I can not understand why they had four wires coming off the dish. Surely only the two on the LNB that's getting the bird, could work? Surely only one dual can get the bird?

BTW, thanks for the tutorials on your website Jeff. Very useful.

 

[highdefjeff]

Right, the idea is that I want to use whatever LNB is at the -center- of the dish (and it could be any of them), for az and el adjust. Once that is set I then want to use the most outlying LNB to fine-tune skew. This way I can use a single-channel meter like the Birdog to get a precise result.

As far as the intricate workings of the Birdog, you know better than I. Someone skilled with the use of the Birdog meter should chime in here to answer your specific questions on its use.

I have found that holding down the power button and selecting the right DisEqc burst works very well on the Birdog, with the DishProPlus. Solved numerous problems and done many service calls with this. However I now find that after the 3-4 or 4-4 switch I can not see my birds, I guess because the switches do not pass DisEqc. So I have no idea how to sort out wiring inside a house when a switch is involved.

After the switch there should be all birds on all lines. What kind of "sorting" of the interior wiring are you doing?

Also yesterday I came across a Dish500 with two duals which was aimed at 149 for Hindi. I can not understand why they had four wires coming off the dish. Surely only the two on the LNB that's getting the bird, could work? Surely only one dual can get the bird?

In regards to the Dish 500 aimed at 149, I agree with your assertion that only one dual will receive 149. Find the lead that has the voltage on it and that lead is the one that is connected to the system. The other three should be dead, and the second line from the same dual should be useable- having the signal also.

As to why it was installed that way, it is anyones guess. I will add that many of the calls involving international programming, that I've witnessed, were wired in strange ways and often used non-Dish equipment. I will take a stab and say that many of those people had been doing their own work until the latest "complications" of new switches and HD. Just a thought. Don't tie up too much brain time trying to figure out all the things you see out there...sometimes it's good to let go of some of the questions go, at least for now. As you see more and more, some of those things will make sense later and some were just the results of an inept installer.

BTW, thanks for the tutorials on your website Jeff. Very useful.

And thanks for the the compliment. Much appreciated.

 

[Quantum]

After the switch there should be all birds on all lines. What kind of "sorting" of the interior wiring are you doing?

For example, the other day I had an add-on receiver call, but the cust asked me about his office receiver which had stopped working after another tech had been out there.

There was a 4-4 switch in his network center, and none of the outgoing cables were labeled. I put my Birdog on the line in the office and got no 119 or 110, but this made sense because I don't even get 119 at the LNB until I hold down power and arrow DisEqc A to send DisEqc to select 119 at the LNB. However the 3-4 & 4-4 switches do not pass DisEqc (for some fscking reason), so there's no way I can select 119. Therefore I can not check for signal inside the house after the switch.

The Birdog Dish plugins do not seem to use 13v/18v signaling. I wonder whether DisrespecTV's 119 plugin would work on Dish 119 through the switch?

BTW, I do not have a Birdog plugin for 148, so the other day I took advantage of the Birdog's inability to recognize orbital slots by using the Dish 61.5 plugin to align to 149. Worked great!