Closed Caption on Mute

[Chris Nick]

Unless I am missing something there is no way to set up the 622 (or 722) to switch to CC mode when hitting the mute button on the dvr remote.

Getting to the CC preference menu is a 3 or 4 step process, and in my opinion takes too long to make it convenient. I think that CC is very useful and not just for people that are hard of hearing. I like to use it when the kids are doing homework or late at night when my family is asleep. CC on mute would make it much easier. I don't do OTA much, but one of the things I like about it is that CC on mute works through the TV. However, I lose this functionality when watching through Dish which is 99.9% of my viewing.

It would seem that it would be a very easy programing step to add this feature to the CC preference menu. Has Dish every had this feature on other receivers.? What's the best method to make this suggestion to Dish and have the right people receive the message?

 

[Aqualung812]

One thing that wouldn't been trivial to get around is that when you press mute, the TV or AV receiver is getting that IR message, not the DVR. The DVR is the one that would need to know that you're muted, but it isn't getting told you're on mute.

The only way I think of is for two IR commands to be shot out of the remote when mute is pressed, one for the TV/AV unit and one for the DVR to tell it you're muted. That creates a whole new set of problems: What if the first mute IR command to the TV works, but then someone walks in front of your remote before the DVR gets the message? Now you're muted, but no CC. Then you press mute again, and both messages go through. Now you're unmuted on TV, but your DVR thinks you're muted!

I guess the other answer is to control mute at the DVR level, preventing the sound from getting to the TV. However, now when you turn up the volume while muted, the auto-unmute wouldn't work. Then you'll remember you're muted, press mute, and blow your speakers!

I agree, it would be great, but it isn't a simple fix...

 

[noremac]

I agree that CC-on-mute isn't likely to happen unless you want the STB to perform variable volume control output as well. In any case, your average user is going to be very confused.

What Dish really needs is a dedicated CC on/off button on the remote. Almost all TVs these days have this. Perhaps it would make a good suggestion - use one of the colored buttons.

 

[pabeader]

or you could pick up a cheap programmable remote and set it up to do the button presses for you. Sony sells a pretty good one for like $20 at Wally World

 

[atlind01]

One thing that wouldn't been trivial to get around is that when you press mute, the TV or AV receiver is getting that IR message, not the DVR. The DVR is the one that would need to know that you're muted, but it isn't getting told you're on mute.

The only way I think of is for two IR commands to be shot out of the remote when mute is pressed, one for the TV/AV unit and one for the DVR to tell it you're muted. That creates a whole new set of problems: What if the first mute IR command to the TV works, but then someone walks in front of your remote before the DVR gets the message? Now you're muted, but no CC. Then you press mute again, and both messages go through. Now you're unmuted on TV, but your DVR thinks you're muted!

I guess the other answer is to control mute at the DVR level, preventing the sound from getting to the TV. However, now when you turn up the volume while muted, the auto-unmute wouldn't work. Then you'll remember you're muted, press mute, and blow your speakers!

I agree, it would be great, but it isn't a simple fix...

Good point, I always had this gripe, but never analyzed it.

 

[Chris Nick]

OK. Some good points. I do have a harmony 520 remote, and I could certainly set up a macro to go through all the dish menus and turn the CC on. My experience with macros is not good. Its iffy that they will work on a consistant basis depending on how you are holding the remote. Also, I would guess this macro would still take 15 -20 seconds to run.

When Aqualung talked about multiple signals from the remote, that's making an assumption that I'm not sure is correct. Would there really need to be two signals sent. One to the TV for mute and one to cc? Afterall, there is software in the DVR. One signal could start a software subroutine that turns the CC on, and 2) cuts the audio signal from DVR to TV. I agree that I wouldn't want to DVR to do volume control, and that part is better as simply a signal in the remote that controls the TV. But why not volume on off? I see the point about the possibility of blown speakers, but a mute symbol could be displayed in the corner of the picture, as in any TV.

My objection is that CC on mute works just fine for my TV when I'm watching OTA, which I do rarely. Its a menu option in the TV, and it works perfectly. When I watch the DVR it won't allow the TV native CC to work. CC is simply a line or 2 of code contained in the very edge of the picture. It is there in most broadcast signals, and presumably in dish signals, or it wouldn' work at all. So why does Dish not allow my TV to display the CC as set up with the TV remote? Dish is somehow blocking the TV taking this action. It would be great if they would just do a CC button as Noremac suggests, but I doubt they are going to ship new remotes to everyone just for a feature or two. In the meantime just leave the TV signal alone and let my TV work as it should.

Thanks to everyone for their thoughtful responses.

 

[chefly]

It seems odd now as I think about it, but my crappy 32 in. BestBuy branded POS will show CC when I mute...I have it hooked in thru VCR because I get my HD OA on that TV...hmmmmmm

 

[noremac]

When I watch the DVR it won't allow the TV native CC to work ...It is there in most broadcast signals, and presumably in dish signals, or it wouldn' work at all. So why does Dish not allow my TV to display the CC as set up with the TV remote? Dish is somehow blocking the TV taking this action.

Good observation. When I had a Dish 811, it passed-through closed captioning data in the VBI, thus enabling the TV's internal CC decoder to work. I recall it did this even via component video connection. But when I got my 622 (and now a 722), this functionality was missing. It seems the only way to view CC with these latest STBs is via Dish's own STB function, which is clunky to access and doesn't support any CC-on-mute capability as pointed out.

It's also possible that when using an HDMI video connection, the older system of VBI CC is not passed through. I have a newer Samsung LCD digital TV, and when it's in HMDI input mode, its internal CC decoder is not available. If this possibility is correct, it may explain why Dish isn't supporting the capability, even on composite and component outputs (reasoning that HDMI is the predominant connection choice for most future digital TVs).

 

[cgtyoder]

My objection is that CC on mute works just fine for my TV when I'm watching OTA, which I do rarely. Its a menu option in the TV, and it works perfectly. When I watch the DVR it won't allow the TV native CC to work. ... Dish is somehow blocking the TV taking this action.

It sounds like you are watching Dish through HDMI, correct? As noremac hinted, the sad fact is that the (current) HDMI spec does not support closed captioning (google "hdmi closed captions"). So if you switch to composite or component, you will be able to use your TV's CC, but then of course picture quality suffers. So I am glad that Dish thought to add it, but of course it is a PITA to turn it on/off. We have a multi remote with macro capabilities, so I just programmed a series of keypresses to toggle the CC on/off. Good luck.

 

[KAB]

So if you switch to composite or component, you will be able to use your TV's CC, but then of course picture quality suffers.

Composite yes, Component No...no better or worse than HDMI.

 

[cgtyoder]

Composite yes, Component No...no better or worse than HDMI.

I don't know about your setup, but with my Panasonic plasma I can see a difference between HDMI and component with my Samsung upconverting DVD player and the 722 unit. It is slight, but there is a difference.

I just did a test for CC via composite, and surprisingly it still does not show up - odd. I know that on my DVD player it does support CC via composite. Maybe Dish really does after all not support CC in the signal. Shame on them if that is the case.

 

[racko]

dish cc without pressing 8 buttons

but of course it is a PITA to turn it on/off. We have a multi remote with macro capabilities, so I just programmed a series of keypresses to toggle the CC on/off. Good luck.