Mount Pole Support.

[Babadem]

I have a 36'' Elliptical dish on a 7 feet pole (1 5/8'') mounted in a 5 Gallon Bucket and Buried about 2 feet into the ground, with about 5 feet above ground. To my horror, I discovered the Pole fluctuates in the wind. My question is, can I pour cement down the top open end (full length of the pipe) of the pipe, let it dry and should that provide enough support against wind wobbling, or should I use 3 support wires attached to the pole and driven into the ground?

 

[Mr.Arizona]

Is just the upper part of the pole wobbling or is it the whole pole including the bucket?

In case of the upper part... your 3 wires may fix the problem.
In case of the whole construction... it might be better to re-do the complete part. The lower part of your pole could use some horizontal steel bars attached to it for some extra stability.

 

[Babadem]

Is just the upper part of the pole wobbling or is it the whole pole including the bucket?

In case of the upper part... your 3 wires may fix the problem.
In case of the whole construction... it might be better to re-do the complete part. The lower part of your pole could use some horizontal steel bars attached to it for some extra stability.

Mr.Arizona, thanks for your quick reply. It seems to be from around a the 3 1/2 feet mark above ground. How about my pouring more cement down the open end of the pipe? How deep/high and what diameter is the pole in your picture?

 

[Mr.Arizona]

Yes, poring the pole with cement should do the trick.

The pole on the picture has a diameter of ~8 inches and is 4 inches deep.
Edit: 4 foot deep in the ground, with a steel stud welded horizontal to the pole to prevent twisting/turning. The whole pole is about 12 foot long. The hole in the ground ~ 3x3 foot by 4 foot deep. the top part is 4x4 foot and 3-4 inches high to give some extra stability.

 

[Larry1]

If you are using the light duty fence pole, you will find that filling it will take the vibration out of the pole and the dish clamps will hold better as the pole will not deform when they are tightened.

 

[Mr.Arizona]

...and don't forget to compress the concrete, otherwise you might get air pockets, which isn't good for stability.

 

[Anole]

Hard Case !

I'm trying to avoid a similar problem by any of the following ways:
- bigger pole diameter
- shorter pole length
- heavier walled pole

I do have a similar pole in a bucket, but not buried, and it's got some limitations.
So, I know what you are talking about.

But if I were in your shoes and thought about pouring cement down that tiny pole, I'd make damned sure it'd never wiggle again!
And I'd do that by finding a 6..7 foot length of rebar ('bout as big around as your little finger), and using that to tamp down the cement in the pole.
When I was done, the rebar would be left inside the pole, too
Not sure that's necessary, but I wouldn't want to do a half@$$ed job and be mad that it failed later (ever again!) -

But that's just me. Your mileage may vary. Film at 11. No deposit; no return.

 

[Babadem]

I didn't see the later suggestions before now, but I just poured the cement down the tube this evening. I'm waiting to see the result by end of day tomorrow.

 

[rv1pop]

Just a comment for those in frost heave areas (no lizards allowed!). Keep the sides of your foundation straight or tapered (narrower) at the top. The frost and frozen ground will lift the top of your pour otherwise and your post will no longer be stable. Base and any portrutions below the frost line. It is not a pretty sight to come home to your pole foundation top being 6 inches above the gound level and leaning 8 to 10 degress off plumb. Many times we have put foundations or bases completely below the frost line - but then we often have had trouble with rust unless we tarred the pole very heavily.

 

[Babadem]

Just a comment for those in frost heave areas (no lizards allowed!). Keep the sides of your foundation straight or tapered (narrower) at the top. The frost and frozen ground will lift the top of your pour otherwise and your post will no longer be stable. Base and any portrutions below the frost line. It is not a pretty sight to come home to your pole foundation top being 6 inches above the gound level and leaning 8 to 10 degress off plumb. Many times we have put foundations or bases completely below the frost line - but then we often have had trouble with rust unless we tarred the pole very heavily.

Well, I have my concrete cement base in a 5 gallon plastic bucket and burried in the ground. I hope that wouldn't be the case here. New England winter can be brutal at times.

 

[Mr.Arizona]

Just a comment for those in frost heave areas (no lizards allowed!). Keep the sides of your foundation straight or tapered (narrower) at the top. The frost and frozen ground will lift the top of your pour otherwise and your post will no longer be stable. Base and any portrutions below the frost line. It is not a pretty sight to come home to your pole foundation top being 6 inches above the gound level and leaning 8 to 10 degress off plumb. Many times we have put foundations or bases completely below the frost line - but then we often have had trouble with rust unless we tarred the pole very heavily.

Doesn't that depend on the weight of the concrete/cement block?
Going by the pictures i posted, the weight of the block would be in the range between 3000 and 4000 pound, if I'm not totally wrong in my calculation.

 

[rv1pop]

Do you get frost heave there? To what depth? Ours is 32" minimum. Most places, not in the mountains but this far north, are figured at 18 to 22 inches.

The engineer that designed my foundation blocks, 30" X 42" X 49" deep still insisted that I made sure they were either absolutely plumb, or slightly tapered in. No lip above frost line. One other simular building about 5 miles north of me poured a slab, tied into the block with rebar, but without a below flostline footing tipped up about 4.5 inches along the south east corner (80+ hours below 6 degrees). Really did a lot of damage. I am not sure of the weight, but my building was about 21 tons of steel and concrete, plus the weight of the lumber which was around 4 tons as I remember , but I do not have a connected slab, and am protecting the frost line edges to 18 inches with R10 insulation.

The pole example above was a neighbors 30 inch hole dug with a double handle post hole digger 8" at the bottom and 25'+ at the top, filled with site mixed sack concrete. The cone popped up and tipped in one night of 6 degree weather. It was for a clothes line - 12 foot 4X4 wooden post. No cross arm on it at the time either.

 

[Mr.Arizona]

Wow, didn't know that!

Well, over here we don't get much frost. Maybe a little bit under 40... Phoenix,AZ

 

[Babadem]

I'm really getting worried. It seems my cement mix was a little wet and as at 9pm last night the poured cement in the pole is still wet and the pole still wobbly. To make matters worse, it is raining! I'm now also worrying about the frost issue in winter, I hope the 5 Gallon poured cement doesn't warp or move with the frost.

 

[bevshadow]

Don't worry about the rain cement will setup in water, also as for your frost line here we have frost to 2-3 feet in the ground so we dig our holes at least 3 to 4 feet to get under frost line less of a chance for pole/cement to move, the 3 wires would of worked if you get them secure enough, also the 3 wires would help your cement to set better if your pole is still moving around or take dish off till set up.
Find out where you frost line is for your area and go at least 1 foot under will help also if in pure topsoil the frost line will be different(topsoil don't freeze as quick as fill or as deep) so if your frost line is under 2 feet like you have you might get away with digging around bucket and filling in with pure topsoil-just a thought if you wanted to try but if you got that far just as well to dig it down an extra foot or two.

 

[Anole]

While it was still wet 'n wobbly, you could have dropped in that chunk of rebar.
As it slid down, it'd have popped any air bubbles, too.

Well, hopefullly anyone reading this thread in the future will consider the rebar option.

 

[bevshadow]

Good point as if the pole rusts out over time near the ground the rebar and cement will still hole it up, provided you didn't thin the cement down to much. You could just drive the bar in the pole and with a hammer tap the mast from ground to top, will smooth out the air pockets and bring the cement to the side of the pole on the inside, also works when pouring footings or walls (hammer tap).

 

[Babadem]

Don't worry about the rain cement will setup in water, also as for your frost line here we have frost to 2-3 feet in the ground so we dig our holes at least 3 to 4 feet to get under frost line less of a chance for pole/cement to move, the 3 wires would of worked if you get them secure enough, also the 3 wires would help your cement to set better if your pole is still moving around or take dish off till set up.
Find out where you frost line is for your area and go at least 1 foot under will help also if in pure topsoil the frost line will be different(topsoil don't freeze as quick as fill or as deep) so if your frost line is under 2 feet like you have you might get away with digging around bucket and filling in with pure topsoil-just a thought if you wanted to try but if you got that far just as well to dig it down an extra foot or two.

I may have to dig 1ft more and then attach the 3 wires to the pole. This will only leave about 4ft of the pole sticking out of the ground. I hope pedetstrians passing about 3ft away from the dish will not obstruct the signals? Now, I have three 2ft spikes will those hold well during frost if fully driven into the ground?

 

[Babadem]

While it was still wet 'n wobbly, you could have dropped in that chunk of rebar.
As it slid down, it'd have popped any air bubbles, too.

Well, hopefullly anyone reading this thread in the future will consider the rebar option.

I already poured my cement into the pole before I saw your suggestions. I will try adding the wires and see what happens.

 

[rv1pop]

Where in New England? I should also caution those reading that I am in an extreme weather area, Approximately 2500 feet above sea level, no obstruction to block the wind or to hold in the heat. I live in the Cascade mountains about 7 miles from Satus Pass. In the winter we get cold - and almost no heating from the sun.
That said, tar or paint heavily your post to a foot up from your concrete and mound topsoil around it. No sense to worry about a small thing like this especially if your are not exposed and the project is done. Do you worry about pipes freezing in the winter? If not, you probably do not have a frost problem! We have to drain our pipes that are buried less that 2 feet or they freeze. We have shut offs on all our laterals, with drain valves at the lowest points - 2 to 3 ft extensions on the handles....