Dish has dropped local ABC- prorated credit?

[jldhawk]

Here is one of many emails I sent to the President of Citadel, and their respose:

The problem I see with this entire issue is that Dish Network really don't need to carry KCAU, Sioux City is such a small market (DMA 144?) They would never miss us. (All 500 of us Dish Customers)
So this little bump in the road is minuscule to them (In my opinion). That would explain the delayed response you are getting, they really don't care if KCAU is on or not.
We the viewers are getting forgotten. And we are the ones who supports Your advertisers, and pay their Bills every Month. (the finger pointing is getting out of hand, and not resolving this)
Jeff
P.S. I know that Citadel owns several stations effected by this, but my point should be clear, that the people who pay the bills are suffering as well.
It's my guess that more people in SC/DM/Lincoln get their ABC affiliate from the local Cable Company than Dish Network, so that is why you MIGHT not be in that big of a hurry to fix this, your not really loosing that many viewers

And their email to me:

Thanks for the additional follow-up. Please be assured that we are in a hurry to "fix this" which involves coming to terms with DISH in a way that is fair and equitable to both parties....but we can only push so hard on our side. We still have not a heard so much as a word back from DISH since we presented our last counter-proposal last Thursday, 8/7. See what I mean?

Ray

 

[pparry]

I wonder how much Citadel wanted in payment for carriage. KCAU only states that it is less than the amount that Dish passes on to customer- but that might mean $1/customer/month or it could mean $5/customer/month. Of course- there's a lot of variables even in determining customer count. Obviously Dish thought it was too much. On the KCAU website, it states that they are urging Directv to offer local channels sooner- but if Citadel wants too much money it's conceivable that Directv won't pick them up either.

I just don't see where KCAU has any real bargaining power here. They are only on some local cable systems and over the air at this point. A small number Dish customers may be somewhat unhappy- but Dish doesn't really care about that because it has no real impact on their income. The loss of income to Citadel must be much more significant.

 

[pparry]

KCAU has posted on their website that no response has been heard from Dish for some time now. The video loop is no longer shown but a static page lists Dish position on Dish's KCAU channel. One thing I have noticed is the Dish guide data (both Dish provided KCAU and Over the Air signal) still says "Important Notice" but if you jump forward a couple days it has the real guide data. Then Dish flips the real guide data into "Important Notice" on the guide about a day or two before the current day. Is this an indication that Dish thinks it might settle at any time? In any event, since Dish has the guide data correct before it changes to "Important Notice", it seems that Dish is hell bent on making KCAU pay by making it inconvenient for Dish customers to record KCAU programming. It stinks for the Dish customers caught in the middle.

 

[jldhawk]

That is the point that I have been trying to make to the Citidel President Ray Cole. He keeps saying that Dish is being un-cooperative. I say, maybe you are asking for too much then.
How come every other station in the country has not been pulled from their line up after being installed?

 

[kb7oeb]

I don't know if pulling the guide data is because of laziness (they would have to uplink a guide channel like they do for other OTA only channels) or because they want to hurt the dropped channel as much as they can.

 

[pparry]

I don't know if pulling the guide data is because of laziness (they would have to uplink a guide channel like they do for other OTA only channels) or because they want to hurt the dropped channel as much as they can.

The guide data is already uplinked. When you jump ahead a few days it's all there. Dish doesn't change the data to "Important Notice" until a day or two before the current time. I don't think it's laziness. I was hoping it might mean that Dish thought it might settle soon- but based on KCAU communications it doesn't look like it.

 

[Yes616]

Did anyone ever think about how we knew what was on TV before pay TV service?
The is something out there called a NEWSPAPER which has a listing of what is on TV. At least every newspaper that I have ever seen does.

Well back in the days of old we all only had a certain amount of channels. My cable system had 12 channels in the '70's (2-13), about 35 in the '80's, more in the '90's, etc.

Most newpapers were able to keep up until we passed about 50 or so channels then they sort of just gave up trying to keep up.

Yes, the more popular channels are always there in the paper but it doesn't come close to showing you everything cable, satellite or OTA available to everyone.

Nothing beats that guide data.

 

[jldhawk]

I sent an email out to Dish Network asking if I can change my Default Locals, I am on the fringe of three or four different Locals available.
Two County's to my WEST get Sioux Falls, Locals in SD, the next County EAST of me get Des Moines, Ia LOcals in SD (HD coming soon), the Countys in Minnesota NORTH of me get Minneapolis Locals.(HD Locals)

Trying for Minneapolis......

To be Continued

 

[EmpireState]

Well, I did my best to get a discount from dish for the loss of the channel in Des Moines, we'll see how it goes. Here's the email I sent:

Hi,
The contract dispute between the ABC network affiliate named WOI in Des Moines, Iowa and Dish Network has been going on for weeks now. This has resulted in the loss of a channel that I pay for. I would like to receive a $1.00 reduction in billing for my local channel package going forward until it is resolved, and I would like to be pro-rated the $1.00 extra per week fee I have been paying since it started (3 weeks). Please contact me with your confirmation that this has been deducted from my monthly bill.

--Thank you.

As far as Ray Cole is concerned, he's not so great. His WOI/ABC channel ruined the HD feed of the season finale of LOST this year with non-stop entire-broadcast weather warnings for a thunder storm because their broadcasting equipment downgrades HD feeds to SD when weather alerts come on the screen. They do it whenever it rains anywhere in the state and viewers everywhere get to enjoy weather graphics, black or colored bars, and station identifiers on all 4 sides of the screen. I sent him an angry email and he sent me one back telling me I was a jerk for complaining, especially because of the tornadoes that had killed people in northern Iowa the week before (seriously, his own words). I was the bad guy in that exchange, viewers have no right to complain. Weather alerts good, me bad. It's valid.

Hey Ray, how are all the poor Dish Des Moines SD Locals subscribers supposed to get their precious weather alerts now? I'm sure I'll get them OTA, lucky me.

 

[dishcomm]

Did anyone ever think about how we knew what was on TV before pay TV service?
The is something out there called a NEWSPAPER which has a listing of what is on TV. At least every newspaper that I have ever seen does.

There are those who are so attached to their gadgets that they don't know how to do without them. The Sunday paper has TV listings inside.
This remids me of a person who can't find an address because his GPS hasn't that information. Meanwhile this person refuses to look at a paper map or call for directions.

 

[dishcomm]

I feel the pain as well ... since I have WHBF in Rock Island doing the same thing. Fortunately I get the channel OTA in HD but my second and third get nothing. Typical Dish ... pull channels because of Mr. Ergen. Then he has us believe he is doing it for us to keep rates down ... umm okay Charlie!

Ok...Newsflash.. Cable and satellite companies that are not under contract to provide a channel do not "pull" those channels.
In the absence of an agreement, the programming provider (cable/satellite) CANNOT broadcast said channel on their respective system(s)....

 

[EmpireState]

There are those who are so attached to their gadgets that they don't know how to do without them. The Sunday paper has TV listings inside.
This remids me of a person who can't find an address because his GPS hasn't that information. Meanwhile this person refuses to look at a paper map or call for directions.

That's a bit like telling a person who pays for electricity to light a match. Shouldn't have to, the bill is paid there, mate.

 

[EmpireState]

Ok...Newsflash.. Cable and satellite companies that are not under contract to provide a channel do not "pull" those channels.
In the absence of an agreement, the programming provider (cable/satellite) CANNOT broadcast said channel on their respective system(s)....

So "prevented from showing the channel" is the new "pull the channel" when stingy Dish holds out forever and won't pick up a contract with a local? No difference.

 

[jldhawk]

I got the standard form letter back from dish when I asked to change my default locals. Said I was forced by law to get Sioux City Locals, because Spirit Lake is in their footprint.

Looks like I need to "MOVE" after all.

 

[dishcomm]

That's a bit like telling a person who pays for electricity to light a match. Shouldn't have to, the bill is paid there, mate.

Ok. sure..So sincxe when are apples and oranges grown on the same property. Electric service is a public utility. Satellite tv is not. The cost is immaterial. The contract to rebroadcast is the issue here.

 

[dishcomm]

So "prevented from showing the channel" is the new "pull the channel" when stingy Dish holds out forever and won't pick up a contract with a local? No difference.

Big difference. Before I post this next sentence, this is not and argument with shich I am intersted.
Now, that said, Dish is not being stingy. You choose to take that perception., so be it. The fact is the tv station in question is requesting certain conditions that Dish mgmnt thinks it should not have to meet . I would imagine this is based on comparisons to other tv stations Dish does business with.
So there ya have it.
If you choose to think you are being deprived of something, that's fine.
Remember this, a contract is an agreement between two responsible and reasonable parties. If there is no contract or agreeemnt, there is no doing business. Period. End of story.

 

[gopherscot]

Big difference. Before I post this next sentence, this is not and argument with shich I am intersted.
Now, that said, Dish is not being stingy. You choose to take that perception., so be it. The fact is the tv station in question is requesting certain conditions that Dish mgmnt thinks it should not have to meet . I would imagine this is based on comparisons to other tv stations Dish does business with.
So there ya have it.
If you choose to think you are being deprived of something, that's fine.
Remember this, a contract is an agreement between two responsible and reasonable parties. If there is no contract or agreeemnt, there is no doing business. Period. End of story.

My problem is that Dish seems to have no interest in getting this taken care of and has not responded to Citadel. You obviously have no clue what is going on here and have taken sides with Dish. Dish was given the contract six months ago and did not respond until a couple days before the due date. He obviously gives a crap about the people in these four cities. We should never be denied locals and it seems these channels have had no problem with Direct and our local cable in the past. And yes we do feel deprived ... I am missing channel 4 (CBS) and the others are missing their ABC channels .... and with the football season right around the corner. Many are locked into contracts and can't make a change. It is now going on a month and still in a stalemate. Great customer service Charlie!

 

[pparry]

I sent an email to Ray Cole earlier this week and got the following response.


Thanks for the email...there's nothing I'd like more than to "reach full resolution" in terms of settling this dispute with DISH. But as the old saying goes, it takes two to tango. Here is the viewer advisory we posted on our website (www.kcautv.com) this past Monday, 8/18:

"We regret to inform our DISH viewers that there is virtually nothing new to report since the last update (see below) which was posted on Tuesday, August 12. Specifically, our most recent counter-proposal submitted to DISH on Thursday, August 7 has received neither fair consideration or substantive follow-up. They continue to appear to have "gone silent" from our point of view. In fact, the only noteworthy action taken by DISH in the past 10 days has been the removal of the video they've been running on the channel normally reserved for our station and, in its place, the posting of a static page that conveys misleading information in regards to our dispute with them. Tactics such as these, along with an unwillingness to engage us in an ongoing dialogue, will certainly not get us moving towards a deal that's fair and reasonable to both parties."

Please know that we'll continue to reach out to DISH as part of an ongoing effort to strike an acceptable agreement. But if you haven't done so already, you may want to contact them as well. As many of our viewers have pointed out to us, DISH is all too happy to provide their subscribers with my name and telephone number...but not nearly so quick to offer the same information about themselves. You can call Erin McIlvain, DISH Program Executive, at 1-303-723-1833. I doubt DISH will do any "favors" for us as it relates the program guide information, but perhaps if they hear from enough "loyal viewers of several ABC shows" they will get serious about reaching a fair agreement with us!!

Thanks again for taking the time to contact us.

Sincerely,

Ray Cole, President
Citadel Communications Company

This wasn't just a canned response as it referred to a few things I had specifically stated about the programming guide. I tried to stress to Cole that they are going to lose advertising revenue as well as the Dish carriage amounts, which he didn't address. His response doesn't provide any additional information for us. I wonder how much more they are asking for. I think Citadel will lose out in a game of chicken with Dish because Dish doesn't really care. I'm still under contract with Dish but am not going to do anything that might extend the contract while this battle rages on.

 

[BSUGrad]

Can someone explain to me why networks charge cable and satellite providers to rebroadcast their channels in the first place? This is a serious question, as I don't understand it. What extra costs could the local networks actually incur just to provide their signal to the carrier? It seems to me like any money they get from the carriers is almost pure profit.

I guess I don't understand the business model. They provide their signal for free over the air for anybody who wants to pick it up, but then expect extra money when someone wants to pick up their signal and rebroadcast it to people who may not otherwise receive it. It seems to me that they would want to get as many viewers as possible to show to their advertisers.

 

[Sammy033]

That's a bit like telling a person who pays for electricity to light a match. Shouldn't have to, the bill is paid there, mate.

No its like a person who pays for electricity that has forgotten how to light a match.