KLBS1 Sadoun band stacked Linear KU band Single LNBF
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I'm not sure if there is any need for 22 kHz unless this LNB has universal capabilities. Probably too much to ask, but that would be cool.
I'm guessing, but the 10750 LO is probably for vertical, which should show up between 950-1450 MHz. That would make the 10100 LO for horizontal, which would show up from 1600-2100 MHz. Both spectrums would be upright. Superdish bandstacked FSS LNBs invert the horizontal spectrum.
Seems like a misprint. Having the two LO so close together must be a filtering nightmare.
Well, we will see. Anxious to get some into the members hands for evaluation. -
Well, we will see. Anxious to get some into the members hands for evaluation. -
OK. I've always been an oldfasioned one LO per band/per sat kind of guy. The only bandstacked anything I've ever seen was on my DishPro sub years ago, and I didnt need to know exactly how it worked so I didnt bother boneing up on it. Suffice it to say everything I know about bandstacking equipment would fit in a thimble with room for a generous shot of Southern Comfort. (Thank you very much Janis!)
So, trying to get my head around this, here's what I've deduced. If I'm way off someone please put it in "Dummies" terms for me so I can get it.
In this case, there are essentially two LNBs running simotaniously, one in each polar orientation, two different LOs as stated.
Enter a freq value in the STB of 11735/SR=whatever, which tells it "I want to see any signal you find @ 11735 mhz". The STB cares not about polarity, only if 11735 mixes down to a freq within it's passband. That is 950-2150.
The Vertical LNB downconverts anything it finds to 11735-10750 = 965, which is withing the passband of the STB. If there is RF @ 11735/V, the STB = and displays and politely tells us "Here's your channel" If not, the Vertical LNB brings nothing to the table so the STB ignores it.
Using the same input above, the Horozontal LNB downconverts any signal it finds to 11735-10100 = 1635, also withing the passband of the STB. Again the STB = and displays and politely tells us "Here's your channel" Same as above if there is no horizontal RF at the desired freq.
Other examples are:
-Ku----------------------------IF1 950-1450---------------IF2 1600-2100
Rx freq-----------------------(Ku freq-10750)--------------(Ku freq-10100)
11700-------------------------------950----------------------1600
11705-------------------------------955----------------------1605
.
.
.
12190------------------------------1440----------------------2090
12195------------------------------1445----------------------2095
12200------------------------------1450----------------------2100
Unless you have a signal at both polarities for the same desired freq input the STB should manage everything fine, although I have gotten so much gain on very strong TPs that I could lock them in either LNB/polarotor orientation! Some boxes would probably show whatever scans in as duplicates (ie Viewsat Plat/Extreme), the CS6000 overwrites previous data so it would likely only retain the last of the two scanned in.
All other parameters or commands, H/V (18/13V), DiSEqC, Echo switches, 22khz, etc should be irrelevant to the LNB(s).
I really dont follow the 22khz=on spec, since that is a per satellite configuration specific setting, not a TP polarity specific one. (If we had FW that allowed per TP selection of the switch controls that would be awesome!)
The only way I see it being pertinent is if the tone selects the desired unit and you have to configure two sat pages per bandstacked LNB assy, however I see no logic in using this configuration:
Page one for vertical TPs, LO=10750 22khz=off.
Page two for horizontal TPs, LO=10100 22khz=on.
That would defeat the purpose of bandstacking, best I can tell. There would be no need to have different LOs since only one would be enabled at a time. However Sadoun posted dual LOs of 10750 and 10100 yet the flyer and id plate on the device only lists 10100
: ( both say 22khz on too???)......hmmmmm
Need any volunteers fro the Beta Testing Team Sadoun?
Am I there or do I need to put on the pointy hat and go sit in the corner?
Attached is a plot of the two LOs against each other referenced by the received frequencies. The Potential Out of Band Use is calculated speculation, not design specs.
So, trying to get my head around this, here's what I've deduced. If I'm way off someone please put it in "Dummies" terms for me so I can get it.
In this case, there are essentially two LNBs running simotaniously, one in each polar orientation, two different LOs as stated.
Enter a freq value in the STB of 11735/SR=whatever, which tells it "I want to see any signal you find @ 11735 mhz". The STB cares not about polarity, only if 11735 mixes down to a freq within it's passband. That is 950-2150.
The Vertical LNB downconverts anything it finds to 11735-10750 = 965, which is withing the passband of the STB. If there is RF @ 11735/V, the STB =
and displays and politely tells us "Here's your channel" If not, the Vertical LNB brings nothing to the table so the STB ignores it.Using the same input above, the Horozontal LNB downconverts any signal it finds to 11735-10100 = 1635, also withing the passband of the STB. Again the STB =
and displays and politely tells us "Here's your channel" Same as above if there is no horizontal RF at the desired freq.Other examples are:
-Ku----------------------------IF1 950-1450---------------IF2 1600-2100
Rx freq-----------------------(Ku freq-10750)--------------(Ku freq-10100)
11700-------------------------------950----------------------1600
11705-------------------------------955----------------------1605
.
.
.
12190------------------------------1440----------------------2090
12195------------------------------1445----------------------2095
12200------------------------------1450----------------------2100
Unless you have a signal at both polarities for the same desired freq input the STB should manage everything fine, although I have gotten so much gain on very strong TPs that I could lock them in either LNB/polarotor orientation! Some boxes would probably show whatever scans in as duplicates (ie Viewsat Plat/Extreme), the CS6000 overwrites previous data so it would likely only retain the last of the two scanned in.
All other parameters or commands, H/V (18/13V), DiSEqC, Echo switches, 22khz, etc should be irrelevant to the LNB(s).
I really dont follow the 22khz=on spec, since that is a per satellite configuration specific setting, not a TP polarity specific one. (If we had FW that allowed per TP selection of the switch controls that would be awesome!)
The only way I see it being pertinent is if the tone selects the desired unit and you have to configure two sat pages per bandstacked LNB assy, however I see no logic in using this configuration:
Page one for vertical TPs, LO=10750 22khz=off.
Page two for horizontal TPs, LO=10100 22khz=on.
That would defeat the purpose of bandstacking, best I can tell. There would be no need to have different LOs since only one would be enabled at a time. However Sadoun posted dual LOs of 10750 and 10100 yet the flyer and id plate on the device only lists 10100
: ( both say 22khz on too???)......hmmmmmNeed any volunteers fro the Beta Testing Team Sadoun?
Am I there or do I need to put on the pointy hat and go sit in the corner?
Attached is a plot of the two LOs against each other referenced by the received frequencies. The Potential Out of Band Use is calculated speculation, not design specs.
Melgarga, you're pretty much on the money, but bandstacking works fine even when there is are both H&V signals at the same frequency.
Vertical comes down the cable from 950-1450
Horizontal comes down the cable from 1600-2100
You always know the actual RF and polarization by looking at what frequency the receiver reports. If it is an ignorant receiver, you simply tell it to scan the full 950-2100 bandwidth and convert the horizontal frequencies on your own.
Some receivers understand bandstacked LNBs, but not always very well. C-band bandstacking is fairly standardized and there is decent support for that. Ku-band is convoluted, with DN FSS LNBs for the 105 and 121 slots doing it differently than Sadoun's unit, for example. Some of the PC-based software gets it mostly right and you can input the individual LNB LOs, so you don't have to do the translations.
Vertical comes down the cable from 950-1450
Horizontal comes down the cable from 1600-2100
You always know the actual RF and polarization by looking at what frequency the receiver reports. If it is an ignorant receiver, you simply tell it to scan the full 950-2100 bandwidth and convert the horizontal frequencies on your own.
Some receivers understand bandstacked LNBs, but not always very well. C-band bandstacking is fairly standardized and there is decent support for that. Ku-band is convoluted, with DN FSS LNBs for the 105 and 121 slots doing it differently than Sadoun's unit, for example. Some of the PC-based software gets it mostly right and you can input the individual LNB LOs, so you don't have to do the translations.
Thanks PD,
The 22khz=on and only one LO spec'd in on the id plate made me start questioning what I thought I knew about how that stuff works.
As I let this soak in, I can see that the Coolsat would create two channels for a situation where signals of both polarities exisit on a single "desired frequency" scan. As far as it's concerned it is two different channels because it shows up in two separate places in the IF range. I guess that wouldnt be an issue often, unless your beamwidth happens to catch two birds that happened to have the same TP/SR active but opposite polarity. I cant think of any like that offhand, but there's a lot to keep track of up there.....lol
I do like the overwrite feature of the CS, it does help keep the channel list clean, but it can be aggrevating when you re-do a scan for the RTNs and it locks LEO-1 and wipes the others from memory, or do a re-scan of 91W and it wipes the CWs because it cant see them. (I've figured out how to get them back without re-loading the channel list with the help of the TBN mux on 125W)
I dont remember about the Viewsats or the DVB softare, but the Coolsat doesnt interact/report with IF values to the end user. Other than correctly setting the H/V flag for a particular TP (which is just FYI for the user in this service, since the 13/18v shift doesnt actually affect the polarity) or 'knowing' what the TP polarity is, I dont see how one could determine the polarity being received, at least on the Coolsat. Apparently telling it to scan a specific TP would get you any signal on either polarity with no ability to specify one, the other, or both, or differentiate the sources. Except for troubleshooting purposes, I guess one really doesnt need to know.
I do remember seeing a Std or DP list selection in Channelmaster, and knowing that the DP units were bandstacked, I figured it to be a 'patcheye friendly feature' and never really poked around in it to see what the deal was. You said the Superdish bandstacked setup inverted the upper portion, so if that is the case with Channelmaster's "DP feature" too I'll save those braincells needed to figure that out for a relevant cause.
I can see I'm going to have to get my hands on one of these, (a sackfull of the lil critters if performance is good and the price is exceptional)
The 22khz=on and only one LO spec'd in on the id plate made me start questioning what I thought I knew about how that stuff works.
As I let this soak in, I can see that the Coolsat would create two channels for a situation where signals of both polarities exisit on a single "desired frequency" scan. As far as it's concerned it is two different channels because it shows up in two separate places in the IF range. I guess that wouldnt be an issue often, unless your beamwidth happens to catch two birds that happened to have the same TP/SR active but opposite polarity. I cant think of any like that offhand, but there's a lot to keep track of up there.....lol
I do like the overwrite feature of the CS, it does help keep the channel list clean, but it can be aggrevating when you re-do a scan for the RTNs and it locks LEO-1 and wipes the others from memory, or do a re-scan of 91W and it wipes the CWs because it cant see them. (I've figured out how to get them back without re-loading the channel list with the help of the TBN mux on 125W
)I dont remember about the Viewsats or the DVB softare, but the Coolsat doesnt interact/report with IF values to the end user. Other than correctly setting the H/V flag for a particular TP (which is just FYI for the user in this service, since the 13/18v shift doesnt actually affect the polarity) or 'knowing' what the TP polarity is, I dont see how one could determine the polarity being received, at least on the Coolsat. Apparently telling it to scan a specific TP would get you any signal on either polarity with no ability to specify one, the other, or both, or differentiate the sources. Except for troubleshooting purposes, I guess one really doesnt need to know.
I do remember seeing a Std or DP list selection in Channelmaster, and knowing that the DP units were bandstacked, I figured it to be a 'patcheye friendly feature' and never really poked around in it to see what the deal was. You said the Superdish bandstacked setup inverted the upper portion, so if that is the case with Channelmaster's "DP feature" too I'll save those braincells needed to figure that out for a relevant cause.
I can see I'm going to have to get my hands on one of these, (a sackfull of the lil critters if performance is good and the price is exceptional)
Update:
The single cable Bandstacked KU LNBF is now in stock and shipping at Sadoun:
http://sadoun.com/Sat/Order/LNBFS/FREE-TO-AIR-LNBF.htm
I hope you like the price we kept low.
The single cable Bandstacked KU LNBF is now in stock and shipping at Sadoun:
http://sadoun.com/Sat/Order/LNBFS/FREE-TO-AIR-LNBF.htm
I hope you like the price we kept low.
Attachments
Mr. Sadoun -
Your web page here shows the product, but the link ON IT, doesn't go to the LNBF in question
http://sadoun.com/Sat/Order/LNBFS/FREE-TO-AIR-LNBF.htm
Reason I looked, was because I was seeking clarification on the whole 22khz matter.
Glad to see you got these available - :up
Before, only clever folks with surplus LNBs were bandstackers on Ku.
Now, anyone can be! -
... oh, and any thoughts on my comment above in this thread, about suitable switch lashups?
Your web page here shows the product, but the link ON IT, doesn't go to the LNBF in question
http://sadoun.com/Sat/Order/LNBFS/FREE-TO-AIR-LNBF.htm
Reason I looked, was because I was seeking clarification on the whole 22khz matter.
Glad to see you got these available - :up
Before, only clever folks with surplus LNBs were bandstackers on Ku.
Now, anyone can be! -
... oh, and any thoughts on my comment above in this thread, about suitable switch lashups?
Also noticed that the company web page creator/maintainer got a bit c/p happy on the only page that does reference the bandstacked unit.
Last bullet -
Hmmmm.......guess we will just have to wait and see what the deal is on the 22khz reference................I cant seem to figure it into the mix.
Last bullet -
The pic appears to show one F connector. Dual out AND bandstacked would be asking for TOO much.....lol
Hmmmm.......guess we will just have to wait and see what the deal is on the 22khz reference................I cant seem to figure it into the mix.
bandstacked allows you to have one output to multiple receivers
Horizontal polarity is stacked on top of vertical so all you need is a satellite grade (up to 2200mhz) splitter
Horizontal polarity is stacked on top of vertical so all you need is a satellite grade (up to 2200mhz) splitter
My guess is the 22khz on enables bandstack mode. I'm thinking 22khz off would leave it in normal voltage switched mode. So just plugging it in it will "just work" as a normal LNBF.
The 22khz has to switch something or there's no point, so that's my guess.
The 22khz has to switch something or there's no point, so that's my guess.
If its setup the same as the Eagle Aspen stacked C-Band LNB that Sadoun sells then the 22k isnt needed
The LNB LO's on that are 5150/5750. Since its stacked all signals are on one side and isnt like a Universal where it scans 2 bands both sides polarity
I think the 22k on thing is an error
The LNB LO's on that are 5150/5750. Since its stacked all signals are on one side and isnt like a Universal where it scans 2 bands both sides polarity
I think the 22k on thing is an error
Not to go off topic here, but Iceberg, I was wondering how you found the performance of the Eagle Aspen B1STACK C-Band LNBF to be... I noticed you replaced it with a C2 on your 6 footer, but I figured that was for analog reception purposes...
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