KLBS1 Sadoun band stacked Linear KU band Single LNBF

[Sadoun]

Hi All

Our KLBS1 Sadoun band-stacked Linear KU band Single output LNBF will be available on our website within a few days.

Freq: 11.7-12.2
N.F.: 0.4dB

With this LNBF you can use a simple High Frequency splitter to split the single cable coming from the LNBF to multiple room/receivers. All, will have independent channel viewing and control of the LNBF.

Pictures and specs will be posted soon.

Best regards

 

[Anole]

I remember you mentioned something about this a while back.
Good to know it's finally turned up.
Looking forward to the pix 'n specs. - :up

Now, if it bolted onto Primestar feedhorns, I know some fellows who'd beat a path to yer door! -

 

[Tron]

Well, I can get all the C-120-flanged stacked LNBs I want from old Superdishes, but this is different as it is a LNBF (integrated feedhorn) ... I might have to get a few of these for my stamped metal dishes. Thanks, Sadoun, looking forward to the pics and info!

 

[melgarga]

Sounds VERY promising. Got any quotes/estimates on a "rock bottom, best deal in town" price?
Maybe a SatGuys group buy discount, if there are enough others interested to justify a volume discount?
or
Buy two and get the splitter free......
somebody stop me.....lol

One question,....Edited. Never mind. Failure to engage brain before putting keyboard in gear...lol

 

[Anole]

more ideas:

Anything like a powered switch on the horizon?
The surplus DP-34's are fine for small systems, but the DPP-44's cost way too much and do too little to be taken seriously.
If ya came up with a 4x4, 6x4, or an 8x4 splitter/switch, that would be quite nice. -
Doubt you'd get a lot of sales for x6's or x8's...

And as long as we're dreaming, how 'bout a C/Ku band-stacked LNBF?
Maybe one built on the technology of the orthomode feeds?
Namely, where the Ku is near the dish, and is therefore easier to align than all the current dual-band LNBFs on the market.
Bandstacked or not, THAT would break new ground in the market! - :up

 

[Mr Tony]

very cool. Love ot see the pics of the unit

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

I would love to see you review one of these Iceberg. This could be the KU LNB that everyone has been dreaming about.

 

[Babadem]

Looking forward to seeing the picture(s).

 

[melgarga]

I have wondered if an unpowered switch could be modified to a powered version without a lot of trouble. Guess we need to consult the resident expert Mad Scientist on the subject............Pendragon, got any adeas?
C/Ku bandstacked combo.....nice, pricey too I'd bet, but I'm not ready to give up my Corotor.......my type A personality showing thru I guess.....lol
Has anyone ever put a C band LNB as prime focus on an offset sytle dish say, 6-8' size? I wonder what type of signal strength could be expected, could just the center circular portion be illuminated for C band or would the C band LNB consider the dish surface 'warped'. I've got an 8.5' stamped aluminum commercial offset feed monster worthy of trying it out on, but it takes a 6" mounting pole and the 1st one of those in the ground is for one of the Birdviews Prime and offset feed on the same dish! Now that would be a strange looking critter.
[Note to self. Really need to talk to Iceberg about a adding "Mad Scientists' Theories and Projects" section.....lol]
BTW, one thought did come out of my disengaged brain question from above. Using a splitter, presumably a one port dc pass/one port dc block, the powered side rx would have to be left on for the 'slave side' STB to still use the LNB. No biggie but worth noting if somone powers down the master, and doesnt realize it and cant figure out why it "just quit working"......lol

 

[Mr Tony]

This could be the KU LNB that everyone has been dreaming about.

If it works as well as a "regular" LNB I could see these sell for the folks who dont want to run 2 lines for a dual LNB.

The only drawback would be the receivers that can't support a stacked LNB properly. Coolsat 8000 for example.

I wonder what the LNB LO's will be. I know the Pansat 1500 has a option for
10750 V
11250 (I think) H

which would work properly. I know on C-Band stacked it was 5150/5750

 

[Mr Tony]

BTW, one thought did come out of my disengaged brain question from above. Using a splitter, presumably a one port dc pass/one port dc block, the powered side rx would have to be left on for the 'slave side' STB to still use the LNB. No biggie but worth noting if somone powers down the master, and doesnt realize it and cant figure out why it "just quit working"......lol

nope. No need for DC blocking. I had a Eagle Aspen C-Band stacked LNB that Sadoun sells on my 6 footer and it worked just fine with a splitter to run to 4 receivers. I swapped it out to the GeoSat c2 dual because the Quali-TV doesnt worked with stacked LNB's so I had to keep converting the frequency for H side.

 

[pendragon]

I have wondered if an unpowered switch could be modified to a powered version without a lot of trouble. Guess we need to consult the resident expert Mad Scientist on the subject............Pendragon, got any adeas?

I did some tests with unpowered 4x4s on the bench late last year. The ones I measured simply had crummy electronics inside. Not bad, but nowhere near the quality of the powered switches. I don't believe direct powering would materially improve their performance, because that wasn't the fundamental limitation. With the flood of semi-obsolete DTV 4x8 switches on eBay, these powered switches often cost less than unpowered 4x4s.

 

[Anole]

Sadoun -
Sorry to start up a brainstorming discussion in your LNB announcement thread.
But, as you can see, the product is generating some real interest. - :up

Iceberg's comment above is quite prophetic:

If it works as well as a "regular" LNB I could see these sell for the folks who dont want to run 2 lines for a dual LNB.

Just yesterday, new member Dee_Ann was talking about adding a second receiver.
We had a long discussion about dual output LNBs, multiswitches, et al.
That was a little more than she was ready to hear.
This Bandstacked LNB would work with her Coolsat 6000 and computer-based receivers just fine, and be a lot simpler solution! - :up

...these powered switches often cost less than unpowered 4x4s.

Mel - see Pendragon's thread on converting a WNC 4x8 for some really attractive pricing.
He and I both did quite well.

 

[melgarga]

Hmmm.....Ok, not sinking in here I guess.
Please pardon my density, but

Was there no interaction between four separate lnb power sources (STBs) intersecting a common feed from the LNB?

What brand/model splitter did you use to split one feed four ways?

Poking around in the CS 6000 sat config page (aftermarket FW) I find a user configurable OCS setting for C band (5150/5750 default), but the only dual LO I see for Ku is when set to universal. Since the LO(s) are user configurable, I suspect the term "universal" does not in the strictest sense absolutely apply to 10.600 LO LNBs. The LNB doesnt care what you name it, as long as it is aligned with the proper LO at the STB.
Universal user configurable dual LO
9750/10600( default) blindscan shows a valid range of 10700-12750
10750/11250 (user entered) blindscan shows a valid range of 11700-13400. If I go bandstacked, it looks like I'll be revising my LO/IF calculator.

Using my RTN input as a test page and changing to universal 10750/11250 I was still able to lock this signal.

I could do the same for the OCS that had C band (5150/5750) default values The blindscan range also came up backwards 13400-11700 but thats to be expected (C band = inverted, high side injection) Maybe that's a means of putting the verticals on the upper side if one wanted to do so......:
Until I have a stacked unit on the other end to respond, I cant say.
Seems like there is probably a means to fudge the LO/LNB type to get what is needed.
I havent tried any combos using 10600.

 

[pendragon]

Was there no interaction between four separate lnb power sources (STBs) intersecting a common feed from the LNB?

What brand/model splitter did you use to split one feed four ways?

Power passing splitters are pretty common. They normally employ diodes to isolate the power supplies from each receiver. That means you normally supply whichever receiver is outputting the highest voltage.

This is quite convenient in more ways than one. For example my GI 920 4DTV receiver has no concept of DisEqC and is unable to select the dish I want it to use through my switch matrix. I have a splitter than allows me to manually switch in a modern DVB receiver to select the correct DisEqC path. If I have the 920 set to vertical and the DVB unit to horizontal, the DVB wins and the DisEqC commands go out. Once I switch the DVB unit out, the 920 will hold onto the path courtesy of the splitter and can choose H/V on its own.

Are we now sufficiently off-topic?

 

[Mr Tony]

What brand/model splitter did you use to split one feed four ways?

some RCA satellite splitters I got from Rat Shack on closeout
exact model is D810
40-2150Mhz

 

[melgarga]

Power passing splitters are pretty common. They normally employ diodes to isolate the power supplies from each receiver. That means you normally supply whichever receiver is outputting the highest voltage.

This is quite convenient in more ways than one. For example my GI 920 4DTV receiver has no concept of DisEqC and is unable to select the dish I want it to use through my switch matrix. I have a splitter than allows me to manually switch in a modern DVB receiver to select the correct DisEqC path. If I have the 920 set to vertical and the DVB unit to horizontal, the DVB wins and the DisEqC commands go out. Once I switch the DVB unit out, the 920 will hold onto the path courtesy of the splitter and can choose H/V on its own.

Are we now sufficiently off-topic?

So taking control of the (voltage) on the "buss" by raising it to 18V enables the DiSEqC data to travel to the switch. Presumably that forward bias' the DVB port isolation diode to condution so the data burst can pass? I realize that using isolation diodes in this service is an accepted industry standard, (obviously, there are splitters available) but personally I would be leary of such a setup. Diodes, any semi for that matter have a tendency to short, go open or virtually anything in between on a static discharge, power surge, transient spikes, etc. I can just here that 13v regulator in an STB on vertical screaming cause an 18v source from an STB on horizontal is backfeeding it thru a shorted diode. If you smell smoke, it's usually too late.
The difference in this happening to a splitter vs a DiSEqC in 'normal, aka one STB" service is that if it's switching diodes short out there is only one voltage source. In the case of DISEqCs I *think* there is a DC path at all times so the shorted diode has no impact on the regulator load (# of LNBs being powered). What happens if you blow a DiSEqC that has multi power sources fed to it? Perhaps I'm not envisioning your example correctly.
In a more elaborate setup it might be the most straightfoward soulution. Currently, I let my 922 power the C band LNB and tap off for the DVBs feed via a PV one pass/one block splitter. The 4D stays on all the time anyway so having full time LNB power is a non issue. Truthfully I've never even given thought to taking a feed to the 922 thru a DiSEqC. That is some creative thinking. If ya cant teach it to speak DiSEqC, contract it out!.....lol
I dont think we are that far OT since the OP referenced splitters and the Q/A discussion has been about splitter types and usage.

 

[pendragon]

So taking control of the (voltage) on the "buss" by raising it to 18V enables the DiSEqC data to travel to the switch. Presumably that forward bias' the DVB port isolation diode to condution so the data burst can pass? I realize that using isolation diodes in this service is an accepted industry standard, (obviously, there are splitters available) but personally I would be leary of such a setup. Diodes, any semi for that matter have a tendency to short, go open or virtually anything in between on a static discharge, power surge, transient spikes, etc. I can just here that 13v regulator in an STB on vertical screaming cause an 18v source from an STB on horizontal is backfeeding it thru a shorted diode. If you smell smoke, it's usually too late.

I'm not worried. My receivers are filled with semiconductors along with a lot of other electronics in the house. The failure rate of single diodes has been pretty small. Admittedly something on a coax line heading out to a dish may pick up stray static, but I've spent plenty of time making sure it gets drained to the proper place. Under these conditions, blown junctions are more common than welded, and my receivers employ current limiting regulators for their polarization voltages. Without a simple short in a cable could be disastrous.

The difference in this happening to a splitter vs a DiSEqC in 'normal, aka one STB" service is that if it's switching diodes short out there is only one voltage source. In the case of DISEqCs I *think* there is a DC path at all times so the shorted diode has no impact on the regulator load (# of LNBs being powered). What happens if you blow a DiSEqC that has multi power sources fed to it? Perhaps I'm not envisioning your example correctly.

Now I'm getting a little lost. I don't see how multiple power sources would affect a DiSEqC switch. Normally the receiver outputting the higher voltage is in control. Even if both diodes in a splitter welded, the two receivers would battle to one voltage or the other or something in between, as determined by their current limiting, their output impedances and the resistance of the interposed cable. Certainly nothing higher. Any switch down the line wouldn't know the difference.

In a more elaborate setup it might be the most straightfoward soulution. Currently, I let my 922 power the C band LNB and tap off for the DVBs feed via a PV one pass/one block splitter. The 4D stays on all the time anyway so having full time LNB power is a non issue. Truthfully I've never even given thought to taking a feed to the 922 thru a DiSEqC. That is some creative thinking. If ya cant teach it to speak DiSEqC, contract it out!.....lol

This was the easiest way I could come up with to have the 920 switched between multiple dishes. I did look into other schemes, but they either cost too much or seemed more complicated than it was worth.

I dont think we are that far OT since the OP referenced splitters and the Q/A discussion has been about splitter types and usage.

I was only jabbing myself for dragging in the 4DTV on DiSEqC angle.

 

[Sadoun]

The KBSL1 has the following LO settings:

Frequency Range: 11.7-12.2 Ghz
L.O. Low: 10750
L.O. High: 10100
22KHz: ON

 

[Mr Tony]

interesting that the 22k has to be on...wouldnt the receiver automatically figure that out?

I know on the Pansats it scans the IF frequency so when I use C-band it scans 1550-2150 IF Frequency on H side and 950-1600 on low and dont need a 22k on