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[AcWxRadar]

Flinthill,

I definitely agree that a 22 inch dish is too small. Not that it WON'T pick it up, but I believe that you won't be satisfied with the performance, especially regarding rain fade concerns.

I have tested several Ku-Band dish models and sizes. From 76 cm to 1.2 M. My personal preference so far is the Winegard DS-2076 (76 cm) dish. As the smallest dish in the .75M to 1.2M range, its performance is superb with the Invacom QPH-032 LNBF.

Currently, I have a GeoSatPro 1.2M dish installed. I thought that I might gain a considerable advantage with this larger dish size over the 76 cm dish. Any benefits that were gained were barely detectable. The drawbacks were also not obvious initially, but I found some.

The difference in price, the weight of the whole assembly and the ease of installation are the main differences between my Winegard DS-2076 and my GeoSatPro 1.2 M dishes.

The greatest difference and the greatest drawback for the 1.2 M dish is the wind here. My dish installation site is very open to any wind. If the wind happens to be "squirrelly" in its direction and blustery or gusty, I can really notice it with the 1.2 M. The signal quality bounces so much that the video drops out and in and out. On a calm day, it is just fine, but when the wind is strong and from the right direction, it wants to twist the 1.2 M dish just right and it becomes annoying.

So, what I wish to relate to you is that for Ku Band, a dish between and inclusive of 75 cm and 1.2 M is where I recommend you to be. And, I am highly partial to the Winegard DS-2076 dish as its performance is exceptional for its actual size. Whenever anyone states that "bigger is better", don't buy into it. It is not entirely correct as there are other factors that must to be weighed in to evaluate the proper sized dish for you.

RADAR

 

[Flinthill]

RADAR,
Is your 1.2m dish fixed or steerable? and if steerable is it an HH or or does it use an actuator arm? If HH, what brand and model motor? We have a lot of wind here also, in fact a wind turbine farm on the next range of hills over can be seen from my yard. We're at about 2200 ft. elevation.

Flinthill

 

[AcWxRadar]

RADAR,
Is your 1.2m dish fixed or steerable? and if steerable is it an HH or or does it use an actuator arm? If HH, what brand and model motor? We have a lot of wind here also, in fact a wind turbine farm on the next range of hills over can be seen from my yard. We're at about 2200 ft. elevation.

Flinthill

I have a PowerTech DG-380 motor applied to the 1.2 M GeoSatPro dish. Tracks perfectly from 30.0°W through 148.0°W (of course there isn't anything at 148 anymore).

It is rare that the wind causes a problem, but when it is just right, from a certain direction, it catches the dish and sets it to flutter like a tuning fork in slow motion. I actually find it difficult to detect that the dish is moving even when I am standing right beside it, it is very subtle.

RADAR

 

[beavs2112]

BEAVS2112

Now that’s scary. I was within an hour of ordering one of the WS International DMX741U LNBFs when I read your recent post. Can you expand a little on the type of grief it has been giving you? You’re right, I rather not replace the Norsats, they are working fine but I also would rather not use a separate controller to adjust polarity. Do you know of any other manufacturer that makes a C/KU LNBF like the DMX741U? WS Int’l might have a corner on the market right now.

I just took a look at the Chaparral website and found a feedhorn (Bullseye II) that can accept the C and Ku LNBs and does not have a polorotor. You might want to check it out:
hzzp://www.chaparral.net/products/feedhorns/bullseye.html

I changed the first part of the address.

Thanks for bringing your DMX741 difficulties to my attention.
______________________

Flinthill

hi flinthill. so you have 2 hobbies .... astronomy AND FTA. cool

I looked at chaparrals site and the manual on this site. . the bullseye needs 4 lnb's total. 2 c-band - one vertical one horizontal. 2 ku band - one vertical one horizontal. so it sounds like you'll need to purchase 2 more lnbs. the manaual at this site gives a better picture of the back.

if their web info is correct the bullseye c-band specs it isn't the full 3.4ghz to 4.2 ghz like the dmx. i think the 3.4 to 3.7 ghz range is called the extended c-band. the bullseye is only from 3.7ghz to 4.2ghz so you might get poor reception on the channels from 3.4 to 3.7 ghz. not sure how many channels there are in the 3.4 to 3.7 range. maybe some users of the bullseye could let you know how their's perform in the 3.4 to 3.7 ghz range. i don't seem to remember too many transponders in the 3.4 to 3,7 range so if that's true then the bullseye looks like a good fit for your needs. maybe santa will get me one for christmas ... i've been good this year

Back to my DMX741 issues. rant begins. I hope I received the one unit in 100 that had quality control issues. I had a real hard time getting the focal distance and skew alignment decent. when i got it right for ku reception on sat A for example the c band reception was poor. so i just used it for c only for a while but i was determined to get to the root of the issues. so recently i tackled it. first the lnb feedhorn section slides in and out of the scalar ring but is only secured by one bolt. so when you tighten the bolt it tended to skew the unit to one side or the other or back and forth ruining your alignment work. so before bolt tight = good signal ..... after bolt tight = poor signal. so i solved that issue by drilling two more bolt holes and tapping them. what REALLY annoyed me is the scalar ring has the extra bolt locations already there (there small raised metal pieces) they were just too cheap to drill and tap two more holes. anything to save 10 cents i guess. so now the signal levels stay the same before and after bolt tightening. but my quality and signal levels were still low. so i popped out the front feedhorn plastic cover and looked inside. well the ku and c antenna signal pickup wires (called probes i believe) were not straight and 90 dergrees to each other. so in other words vertical wasn't vertical and horizontal wasn't horizontal. so i fixed that by bending the wires very carefully with needle nose pliers so they are actually vertical and horizontal. big increases in signal and quality readings on both c and ku ... no surprise there though. thirdly the third bolt holding the cheap orange plastic ku feedhorn/scalar/lnb section cover was completely stripped and at a weird angle so there was a considerable gap between the c and ku sections. probably the assembler using his/her driver drill inserting the bolt didn't care that they weren't doing it properly and it snuck thru the visual quality inspector. finding a larger replacement bolt wasn't easy. water could enter in the gap and do damage and the ku section wasn't aligned parallel with the c feedhorn. i doubt very much the bolt damage could have occured in transit because the plastic cover right beside the screw was undamaged. when you look on wsi's website or at pictures the 741 looks like it's all made of metal on the outside. well now the ku section cover is made of orange plastic. anything to save 10 cents i guess. i would imagine the plastic wouldn't stand long term exposure to UV radiation well. i use my big black plastic feedhorn cover so no issue for me. rant ends.

 

[Flinthill]

Hi Beavs2112,
Astronomy is a long time interest; both observing and telescope building. FTA is relatively new and I am just now learning the nuances of various pieces of equipment.

I feel like I should apologize for asking about the DMX 741. Clearly you have paid your dues to own one. I have wondered how they could pack so much into their product and still sell for under $50. It seems you have answered that question with your description of the quality assembly and materials used. I hope your success with it continues to improve.

Since there seems to be no comparable alternative to the DMX741, I am considering the Bullseye II. However, the deeper I dig into the details the more I wonder if I can actually get one installed properly. I read that some/many people use some type of power inserter and multi-switches. I don’t yet understand why those pieces are needed. I can see the need for using the 22kz switch and the diseqc settings to control access to each lnb. I imagine I just need to continue reading to find the reasons for the other equipment.

The total cost of this approach is substantial. I did find a supplier selling the Bullseye II for $294.00 which is at least $100 less than most other vendors. Here is the address:
hzzp://www.nsccom.com/bullseyeand153ii.aspx

For the time being I will use my old Drake box to control the dish & polarity in order to determine if the 10 ft. BUD can actually acquire the S2 signal and withstand the wind we have here. If that works out then the next step is to get serious about the Bullseye feedhorn.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the DMX741. You have no doubt saved me a lot of time and headaches.

Flinthill

 

[beavs2112]

you are welcome i also wish there was a less expensive alternative to the bullseye. thanks for the link they are someone new to me.

 

[Flinthill]

Flinthill,

For my motor, I use USALS for every satellite except Hispasat (I use DiSEqC 1.2 for it). You will have to go into the SETTINGS > TV CHANNEL > TUNER A > ANTENNA SETUP > POSITIONER SETUP and open the USALS option and enter your own coordinates for latitude and longitude. You only need to do this for ONE satellite. That will change the same information for all the other sats (of course).

RADAR

Hi RADAR,

I finally have the new TV and other equipment installed. I have successfully downloaded your files to the P+ and all show up just fine. I am in the process of entering the data specific to this location but have run onto a snag. I cannot seem to change the longitude and latitude from your location to my coordinates. If you have any suggestions they would help a great deal. I've read the Premium owners manual and it doesn't give details and I can't find anything on the topic in the "A to Z" guide. Which, by the way, is a great piece of work...it guided me through the upgrade to the 9.5020 firmware. Really helpful!!!! Hope all is going well with the 2nd tuner.

Flinthill

 

[Flinthill]

RADAR,
No need to answer my inquiry about how to set in the coords. I used MazEdit to enter new home coords for one satellite and then all the other sats adopted the new location settings. All is good! :>) Thanks.

Flinthill

 

[AcWxRadar]

Hi RADAR,

I cannot seem to change the longitude and latitude from your location to my coordinates. If you have any suggestions they would help a great deal. Flinthill

This sounds strange. Let's see what steps you are taking to first ensure that you are following what I beleive to be the proper procedure.

Now that you have the list loaded into the receiver, access the SETTINGS menu. Press HOME and then highlight SETTINGS (option 11) and press OK.

Navigate to TV CHANNEL and press OK.

Press the > arrow key and this should take you to TUNER A and highlight it. Press OK.

You should now be at ANTENNA SETUP. Press OK.

It should not matter which satellite pops up first for SATELLITE NAME, any satellite should work.

Scroll down the page to POSITIONER SETUP and highlight the option to the right that is shown.

Use the > or the < keys to select USALS. Once USALS is displayed, press OK.

You should now have the POSITIONER SETUP submenu mini page displayed.

Scroll down to MY LONGITUDE.

With the remote, type in 00 and the display should then change to 0.0°E.

Type in your actual longitude coordinates (let's say for example that your longitude is 87.2°W). Type 862 and then press > to change the E to W.

Scroll down to MY LATITUDE and repeat the process (but no need to change the N indication).

Press OK then scroll down to COMMAND MODE line and use the <, > buttons to select "GO TO POSITION" and then press OK

Pause and wait several seconds. You might wish to give it plenty of time if your dish motor is moving. Let it complete its move.

Now EXIT all the way out of all menus until you see the main options at the bottom part of the screen.

Highlight option #01 (TV) and press OK.

Press the STB power button and highlight REBOOT. Allow the receiver to count down and do its own thing.

When it comes back up after rebooting, retrace your steps back to the USALS setup menu and check your geographical coordinate entries.

Did they fill in with your site's coordinates now and replace mine?

RADAR

 

[AcWxRadar]

RADAR,
No need to answer my inquiry about how to set in the coords. I used MazEdit to enter new home coords for one satellite and then all the other sats adopted the new location settings. All is good! :>) Thanks.

Flinthill

Flinthill,

Excellent! I was typing away when you posted your last reply. No problem, you now have it set for your coordinates and that is what we desired.
Now you can test how accurate your dish alignment truly is. If your dish and motor are set properly, all the satellites in my list should be spot-on!

Within legitimate error margins of course.

RADAR

 

[beavs2112]

glad to hear your tv arrived and you can get your list into your az

 

[Flinthill]

Beavs2112, yep, the TV arrived unscathed. Got it going and hooked to the amp with the fiber optic cable and all seems to be happy. :>) Now if the Azbox and I can get along as well all will be good.

This is an interesting journey, especially with only a sketchy road map. But, my sincere appreciation goes out to all those that have contributed and assembled the "A to Z Azbox Guide". And ,to all those that have posted their questions and answers on this forum; plus, I must mention the helpful "Toolbox" by Xonic.

In the process of going through RADAR's channel list I was experimenting and inadvertently wiped out all the TPs on AMC9, and of course that wiped out the entire satellite listing. Am in the process of putting the sat back into operation but it is now about 2 hours into the blind scan and it is still going. Any ideas on what I have done wrong to make it take so long??? The screen readout currently states "TP found - Total 76 - New 23". Seems to me there must there must be a lot of spurious findings in all this.

Also, when setting the USALS mode I can understand the "Go to Position" setting but what does the "Go to 0" setting mean? Is the "Go to 0" the method Azbox uses to set a reference satellite???

BTW, In the time it took to write this post the blind scan is now up to a total of 83 and still going.

Thanks to all,

Flinthill

 

[AcWxRadar]

Also, when setting the USALS mode I can understand the "Go to Position" setting but what does the "Go to 0" setting mean? Is the "Go to 0" the method Azbox uses to set a reference satellite???

Flinthill

Easy things first...The "GO TO 0" function is common on many FTA receivers. It commands the motor to drive to the zero degree or HOME position (which is actually dead center in the middle of the motors available travel). This is sort of a reset feature which helps the motor keep track of its home position. The motor locates all the satellite positions in reference to this zero position. There is a sensor that lets the motor know when it has located or arrived at this position.

Usually, it is not necessary to use the "GO TO 0" function. If you notice that, all of a sudden, all of your satellites are offset, then you would want to try to reset the home position or recalibrate the motor using the "GO TO 0" feature. In all the years that I have used H-H motors, I have never been required to use this feature. I have used it, however, to simply observe what it does.

RADAR

 

[AcWxRadar]

In the process of going through RADAR's channel list I was experimenting and inadvertently wiped out all the TPs on AMC9, and of course that wiped out the entire satellite listing. Am in the process of putting the sat back into operation but it is now about 2 hours into the blind scan and it is still going. Any ideas on what I have done wrong to make it take so long??? The screen readout currently states "TP found - Total 76 - New 23". Seems to me there must there must be a lot of spurious findings in all this.

Flinthill

Flinthill,

Something is wrong here. I don't know how or why it is doing so, but it should not keep blind scanning for so long and it should not find that many TPs. It seems as though it is scanning ALL the satellites in blind scan mode. I don't (or I didn't) think that this was possible with the AZBox, but that is what it appears to be attempting to do.

I would EXIT out of this process and attempt to restart it.

RADAR

 

[AcWxRadar]

When using the blind scan mode...

You should first go to the ANTENNA SETUP menu. Select the satellite that you wish to scan and ensure that the LNB FREQUENCY is set to 10750 (or to the proper frequency / type) of LNBF that you have installed. Then ensure that the LNBF POWER is set to ON.
The DiSEqC / 22KHZ / 0-12V switch settings must be set appropriately for your system setup. I recommend that you NOT use any switches at first, but if your LNBF requires this because it has an internal switch, then you must. Also, ensure that the POSITIONER SETUP is set to USALS in this particular case and leave the NETWORK SEARCH function set to the default of NORMAL.

If you change the satellite listed at the top of the page, be sure to WAIT for the motor to drive to, stop at and register the satellite position before you attempt any scan. The receiver will normally not let you continue until this is complete, but sometimes it can be bypassed manually or accidentally. You don't want to do that.

Once these seetings are made, press OK and EXIT out of this menu and enter the BLIND SCAN menu. Here, the satellite you selected in the ANTENNA SETUP menu should be displayed already.

Notice that the maximum frequency for the search range is incorrectly set to a default of 12900MHz and it should be 12200MHz. Using your up/down and left/right arrow buttons, navigate to the MAXIMUM FREQUENCY line. Scroll over so that the cursor is just past the '9' in 12900 and press the BACK/DEL button and then press the '2' button.

Leave all the other scan range and options set as they are. Then highlight START SCAN and press OK. Uncheck the SCRAMBLED channel search by pressing the check (paperclip) button on the remote. Then press OK to begin scanning.

The scan process should begin by searching for all HORIZONTAL TPs first within the range from 11700MHz through 12200MHz. That will take it to 50% completion. It will then scan all the VERTICAL TPs from 11700MHz through 12200MHz. Once it has completed this task, it will go back and scan for channels on the TPs that it found and registered.

The full process of blind scanning should take between 12 and 16 minutes.

RADAR

 

[Flinthill]

Usually, it is not necessary to use the "GO TO 0" function. If you notice that, all of a sudden, all of your satellites are offset, then you would want to try to reset the home position or recalibrate the motor using the "GO TO 0" feature. In all the years that I have used H-H motors, I have never been required to use this feature. I have used it, however, to simply observe what it does.

RADAR

Should I need to how do I go about resetting or adjusting the "home" position?

Flinthill

 

[AcWxRadar]

Should I need to how do I go about resetting or adjusting the "home" position?

Flinthill

You should not be required to adjust the HOME position, but you can reset the motor to "relearn where home is". If you click on "GO TO 0" and go out to the motor and look at the pointer on the motor tube, it should be at the 0° mark on the motor housing. This may be a little difficult to see with the dish attached, so you might need a dental mirror to assist you. If it is NOT at the 0° position, use the manual motor control buttons to drive the motor to this position, and then reset the motor according to the instructions in your motor's manual.

If the motor is always off at 0°, then you would need to take the motor off the mast and bring it inside to open it and reposition the sensor. The sensor is a magnetic REED switch (normally). I don't know if you can do this on all motors. You will have to research this particular issue if it arises. I don't think it ever will.

RADAR

 

[Flinthill]

RADAR
I wanted to let you know that I now have your list fully installed, and it is spot on. I can’t even imagine how much time and headaches your list has saved me. You must have your dish very accurately aligned because it was no trouble at all to find sats using your settings. I also now have the Favorites entered, using AzEdit and FTP uploading. I am having a little trouble getting the recording function to start at a pre-set time and dish location. Seems it just ignores the reserve that I enter. This is a minor issue and I’ll work through it. We are enjoying the Azbox every evening. I look forward to getting the 1.2m dishes installed so we can receive all of the AMC21 TPs, and others. :>)

Thank you so very much for your list and assistance.

Flinthill

 

[Gordon Corbett]

Dear BEAVS2112,

I am just now reading these messages, so someone else already may have supplied this information. If so, I apologize; but, I have an answer to your question. Chaparral does make an "orthomode feedhorn." Orthomode feedhorns are costly. Nevertheless, their relevance here is that they obviate the odd-even polarity two-step. You need the feedhorn, four LNBs (two each for C-Band and for KU-Band), and various other kinds of equipment which I do not know. Rick Caylor knows, and can provide all the specific information that I cannot.

I am not sure, but they may even obviate skew control. Please check to make sure.

Sincerely,

Gordon F. Corbett

 

[AcWxRadar]

RADAR
I wanted to let you know that I now have your list fully installed, and it is spot on. I can't even imagine how much time and headaches your list has saved me. You must have your dish very accurately aligned because it was no trouble at all to find sats using your settings. Thank you so very much for your list and assistance.

Flinthill

Flinthill,

Actually, it is YOUR dish that is very accurately aligned. Well, mine is too, but for yours to work that well with just my list means that you did a great job of setting up and aligning your own dish.

Well done!

RADAR