Subchannel Discussion Thread

[navychop]

Am I correct in the below?

- NTSC stations may have had a little “spill” and so adjacent frequencies were to be avoided.

- ATSC 1 stations greatly minimized this, but there was still an effort to avoid adjacent frequencies.

- ATSC 3 has no problem with adjacent frequencies. And will win the war for the Allies.

 

[zeebre12]

Why is JAG not on any subchannel? It was a fairly popular shows when it was on and I don't see it on any subchannel?
Also what is happening with the Live Well Network? I know it is now available in only a few parts of the country compared to when it was in a lot more. Will it continue to be available for years to come or what is happening with it? Why is it still available in some places?

 

[Trip]

Am I correct in the below?

- NTSC stations may have had a little “spill” and so adjacent frequencies were to be avoided.

- ATSC 1 stations greatly minimized this, but there was still an effort to avoid adjacent frequencies.

- ATSC 3 has no problem with adjacent frequencies. And will win the war for the Allies.

Analog stations didn't have output filters, so not only were adjacent channels off limits, but there were other "taboo" channels that couldn't be used within certain distances, primarily on UHF.

ATSC 1.0 requires use of an output filter. Stations can generally be adjacent, but it depends on the specific parameters of the two stations and/or whether or not one or both have accepted some level of interference.

ATSC 3.0 may require use of a sharper filter than ATSC 1.0 did, but the FCC isn't protecting ATSC 3.0 stations any differently than ATSC 1.0 stations at this time.

- Trip

 

[Justin Hill]

I thought that analog broadcasts were ended years ago by FCC mandate?

There's still a few out there. There's a 3ABN station still broadcasting in low power analog in a few areas, including mine.

 

[harshness]

Why is JAG not on any subchannel? It was a fairly popular shows when it was on and I don't see it on any subchannel?

If you look at the lineups of some of the cable channels, you'll probably find in there. This applies to any series that you might be wondering about.

 

[primestar31]

Why is JAG not on any subchannel? It was a fairly popular shows when it was on and I don't see it on any subchannel?
Also what is happening with the Live Well Network? I know it is now available in only a few parts of the country compared to when it was in a lot more. Will it continue to be available for years to come or what is happening with it? Why is it still available in some places?

JustWatch

All 10 seasons are on CBS All-Access right now. It doesn't appear at present that it's airing on any sub-channels. If you like it that much, I suggest you buy a sub to that, and start marathoning the episodes.

 

[dhett]

Amalog for low power may live on even beyond that. Particularly for those using channel 6 as a Franken FM station.

No, analog is done in 2021. For everybody. Analog broadcasts will cease 12 months after the repack phase 10 is complete. That's July 3, 2021.

 

[dhett]

That's assuming that they survive the repack.

Did you even read my post before responding? LPTV. can. still. broadcast. in. analog. until. July. 2021. That's LPTV as a service, not every LPTV station. My post assumes stations unaffected by the repack.

We know that they didn't get assigned channels as part of the repack and I can't imagine that an analog station could win out over an LP DTV station.

The way that DTV and Next-Gen are going to be packed together, NTSC might create adjacent channel interference that would make them a poor neighbor.

Your point is irrelevant. The only stations remaining in analog are LPTV stations that are not Class A stations. LPTV is a secondary service, and by law, no secondary service is permitted to cause interference to a primary service, or to another secondary service, unless the station receiving the interference agrees to it, and that's not likely. So if an analog station causes interference, it remedies that interference or shuts down completely. End of story.

 

[Peter Parker]

Yes i did read your post. I was only pointing out that that some analog stations and, in particular the group using channel 6 as a"Franken FM" stations, want the rules to be modified a bit . I am sorry if that note bothered you or if you consider it to be irrelevant.

 

[comfortably_numb]

Yes i did read your post. I was only pointing out that that some analog stations and, in particular the group using channel 6 as a"Franken FM" stations, want the rules to be modified a bit . I am sorry if that note bothered you or if you consider it to be irrelevant.

I don't think he was responding to you... he was responding to harshness

 

[Peter Parker]

A thousand pardons then. I saw my post quoted and made an assumption. it may have been incorrect.

 

[harshness]

Did you even read my post before responding? LPTV. can. still. broadcast. in. analog. until. July. 2021. That's LPTV as a service, not every LPTV station. My post assumes stations unaffected by the repack.

I read your statement and it doesn't survive the test that there be a channel available for the transmitter to broadcast on. Analog hasn't been granted some magic that gives it priority over digital uses of the frequency.

Your point is irrelevant.

It is a lot more relevant than the point that you're trying to make.

The only stations remaining in analog are LPTV stations that are not Class A stations. LPTV is a secondary service, and by law, no secondary service is permitted to cause interference to a primary service, or to another secondary service, unless the station receiving the interference agrees to it, and that's not likely. So if an analog station causes interference, it remedies that interference or shuts down completely.

You've made the incredibly flawed assumption that there's a channel available for the station to occupy and that's not a reasonable assumption in many areas where there is either a lot of stations in the market or several markets packed in a relatively small area. The band is getting quite a bit smaller and more than a few of the LP stations have already been forced out. In some markets, even the not-so-low-power stations are feeling the squeeze and as I said earlier, analog hasn't been granted any magic priority.

It will be several months before we know what shakes out of the battle for the remaining channel space but since analog takes up three channels (due to the typical absence of filtering that Trip spoke to), you can pretty much bet that analog isn't going to be popular choice to fill any available slots.

If you have to buy new transmission gear, there's not much point in remaining analog.

 

[dhett]

I read your statement and it doesn't survive the test that there be a channel available for the transmitter to broadcast on.

Let me try this one more time, because you're not reading for comprehension. Analog television as a service is allowed to continue until July 3, 2021. Some analog stations will convert to digital before that time. Here in Phoenix, there are no more analog stations; all have converted to digital already. Others may be forced off the air altogether due to lack of available spectrum. But even in the most favorable of spectrum conditions, analog television will be required to cease on the above date because the FCC will no longer allow it. Period.

 

[harshness]

Let me try this one more time, because you're not reading for comprehension. Analog television as a service is allowed to continue until July 3, 2021. Some analog stations will convert to digital before that time. Here in Phoenix, there are no more analog stations; all have converted to digital already. Others may be forced off the air altogether due to lack of available spectrum. But even in the most favorable of spectrum conditions, analog television will be required to cease on the above date because the FCC will no longer allow it. Period.

Your explanation is starting to sound a whole lot more like mine than what you originally launched your offensive with. More emphatic language isn't more persuasive if your story appears to be in flux.

Hanging your hat on an FCC deadline is clearly not a safe position to be arguing from as more than a couple analog cessation "date certains" have already passed. Even the DTV transition had three (12/31/2008, 2/17/2009 and 6/12/2009) completion dates! It is perhaps better to view FCC deadlines as goals rather than drop-dead dates.

 

[dhett]

Your explanation is starting to sound a whole lot more like mine than what you originally launched your offensive with. More emphatic language isn't more persuasive if your story appears to be in flux.

Hanging your hat on an FCC deadline is clearly not a safe position to be arguing from as more than a couple analog cessation "date certains" have already passed. Even the DTV transition had three (12/31/2008, 2/17/2009 and 6/12/2009) completion dates! It is perhaps better to view FCC deadlines as goals rather than drop-dead dates.

Here's my original quote again:

Analog has only ended for full power and Class A stations. LPTV can still broadcast in analog until July 2021. After that, all TV will be digital.

Nothing has changed.

Analog has only ended for full power and Class A stations.

There is not one full power or Class A station in the USA that is broadcasting in analog, is there? Of course not.

LPTV can still broadcast in analog until July 2021. After that, all TV will be digital.

LPTV refers to the service, not any individual station. I think most readers understood that. You were just being argumentative. Now does it mean that LPTV stations have to broadcast in analog until then? Nope.

Yes, I am comfortable with the July 2021 date because it's the law. Not a goal, a law. The date cannot be moved unless the FCC is ordered to change the law, but a change in the law to extend analog TV is unlikely. By the time analog ends for LPTV stations, it will have been more than 12 years since the end of analog broadcasting for full power stations. 12 years is more than enough time.

Furthermore, LPTV is a secondary service that gets no love. They get sand kicked in their faces from full power TV stations, Class A TV stations, cable companies, satellite companies, wireless communications, and even the FCC repack. Some even wanted to reserve one channel in each market for use by unlicensed wireless devices, taking away 6 MHz more spectrum from LPTV stations, and making LPTV service secondary to unlicensed services.

 

[harshness]

Nothing has changed.

Asserting that the end date is known is something that people have been harping on for years and yet nine years after the DTV switch, analog is still with some of us (I think my state finally converted the last translators to digital last year). Thus far the dates have been straw men and have been blown down with seemingly little regard. Giving the latest date any more power than the previous deadlines had seems foolish other than we know it still has a chance of being "the" date.

 

[dhett]

Written as if you know what you're talking about. Just another piece of fantasy art from you.

 

[zeebre12]

New 24/7 news diginet to launch later this year New 24/7 NewsNet Designed For TV Stations | TVNewsCheck.com I wonder how this will do?

 

[navychop]

Good sizzle.

Now to taste the steak.

 

[N5XZS]

I like the idea of Newsnet being put on nationwide for OTA local stations and I would love to see it on FTA Ku satellite band.

They should send in at least 720p video format if not 480p in 16:9 widescreen.

Depending on the local station's payload bandwidth issue.

Let's get this baby launch!!