“THURSDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL” GAMES OFFERED IN 4K ON FOX

[longhorn23]

NFL will broadcast thurs night games in 4k. Article only mentions fubotv but it should be on Directv as well since Directv has always aired all FS1/Fox 4k broadcasts.

fuboTV Announces Its 4K Fall Sports Lineup Including Some NFL & College Football Games in 4K

 

[goaliebob99]

This was supposed to happen last year with the first 4K game being the Thanksgiving game.. I would expect to see this on DirecTV 4K and AT&T TV for those who will have 4K IPTV available.


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[Claude Greiner]

For what AT&T has paid for the NFL rights, and the extra reverse band space available there should be no reason why all games can’t be in 4K.

What do they need 4 transponders here on Sunday to make this happen?

 

[Claude Greiner]

Hell If they went all out on 4K live sports, people wouldn’t have a reason to leave

 

[slice1900]

Directv can't just wave a magic wand and make the networks all buy 4K production trucks so they can produce multiple games in 4K. Not too long ago there was only 4K production truck in the whole country. By last fall I'm pretty sure there were two, because both Fox and NBC did 4K events but if you looked at the timing it was obvious Fox had just the one truck. Maybe someone else has a third.

Not to mention the networks would have to reserve a ton of C band transponder space, whatever special resources they need at their network broadcast site to handle incoming and outgoing 4K production, all the cameras needed at the stadiums and I'm sure many things I'm forgetting.

It isn't about what resources Directv has, they can only broadcast what networks make available to them.

 

[BCH]

I don't think the quantity of 4K production trucks is the issue. Just one company, Game Creek, appears to have enough mobile 4K production facilities to do the job. If some of Game Creek facilities are on other assignments there are additional companies such as PMTV, TV Technology, Mobile TV Group, Sports Video, IMS Productions and others that provide mobile 4K production facilities.

Game Creek Video - Trucks

 

[longhorn23]

This was supposed to happen last year with the first 4K game being the Thanksgiving game.. I would expect to see this on DirecTV 4K and AT&T TV for those who will have 4K IPTV available.


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Just wondering how you knew this was supposed to happen last year? Was there any articles written about 4k games on thanksgiving? Thanks for the help.

 

[Claude Greiner]

You mean the NFL can’t afford to buy 4K cameras and equipment?

 

[slice1900]

You mean the NFL can’t afford to buy 4K cameras and equipment?

The NFL isn't the one paying for them, it would be Fox etc. who pays for them.

Think of it this way, the size of the audience watching would be the same whether it is in HD or 4K. Advertisers aren't going to pay higher rates because the game is in 4K. So it is all cost with no return from the perspective of Fox.

I think they'll do it eventually, but they're in no rush. When they need to replace equipment they'll replace it with 4K stuff, but they aren't going to retire working HD gear for a while. Having 4K cameras makes sense even in an HD production for the zoom, but beyond that...

I think 4Kp120 is the point where it makes sense to really go into 4K for sports, because that adds more value than the increased resolution (at least if I had to choose I'd take 720p120 over 4Kp60) just like HDR adds more value than the increased resolution. The problem with 4Kp120 is they need TVs that can accept that as an input, which almost none can (the 2019 LG OLEDs and a couple others are it so far) and you'd need set tops / clients with HDMI 2.1 which so far there are exactly zero.

 

[longhorn23]

I would disagree with HDR adding more than increased resolution. At least in my opinion.. I remember when directv only had 4k but no HDR for sports. It still looked incredible. But I've also seen broadcasts recently that had HDR but only upscaled HD to 4k. It was not impressive at all. Notre Dame football games on NBC come to mind and a few MLB fox baseball games as well. I believe there were a few golf broadcasts with some HD cameras but with HDR as well. Anyways If I had a choice between 4k resolution and no HDR or HD resolution with HDR, I would take 4k. Just my opinion. Of course the size of your tv makes a huge difference. And of course it's better to have both 4k and HDR.

 

[slice1900]

I would disagree with HDR adding more than increased resolution. At least in my opinion.. I remember when directv only had 4k but no HDR for sports. It still looked incredible. But I've also seen broadcasts recently that had HDR but only upscaled HD to 4k. It was not impressive at all. Notre Dame football games on NBC come to mind and a few MLB fox baseball games as well. I believe there were a few golf broadcasts with some HD cameras but with HDR as well. Anyways If I had a choice between 4k resolution and no HDR or HD resolution with HDR, I would take 4k. Just my opinion. Of course the size of your tv makes a huge difference. And of course it's better to have both 4k and HDR.

I suspect those "HD upscale" 4K broadcasts were done where they lacked a 4K production truck. They could use one of their normal trucks and then upscale it in their broadcast HQ. Not sure why they bother, maybe it was an experiment to see if people would notice...and I guess some didn't because there were some people arguing on dbstalk last year about whether those Notre Dame games were upscaled or not lol

 

[Juan]

The have been using 4k cameras on NFL broadcasts for a few years now ( replays)..they have been down rezzing the signal to 1080i and 720p for tv broadcasts..its the local stations in ability to broadcast 4k is the fly in the ointment

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[Don in CT]

Directv can't just wave a magic wand and make the networks all buy 4K production trucks so they can produce multiple games in 4K. Not too long ago there was only 4K production truck in the whole country. By last fall I'm pretty sure there were two, because both Fox and NBC did 4K events but if you looked at the timing it was obvious Fox had just the one truck. Maybe someone else has a third.

Not to mention the networks would have to reserve a ton of C band transponder space, whatever special resources they need at their network broadcast site to handle incoming and outgoing 4K production, all the cameras needed at the stadiums and I'm sure many things I'm forgetting.

It isn't about what resources Directv has, they can only broadcast what networks make available to them.

Don't most productions get sent through fiber now?

 

[slice1900]

Don't most productions get sent through fiber now?

My understanding is that most are still uplinked from the stadium to the broadcast center via C band satellite, and uplinked from there again via C band to the various MVPDs like Comcast, Directv etc.

The FCC has been talking about repurposing some of the C band spectrum and arguing "you guys can use fiber" but the NAB has been fighting back hard, saying they consider satellite uplinks more reliable than fiber.

 

[Juan]

Not sure where you get your ancient information from...fiber is taking over the world of c band for wuite awhile now

My understanding is that most are still uplinked from the stadium to the broadcast center via C band satellite, and uplinked from there again via C band to the various MVPDs like Comcast, Directv etc.

The FCC has been talking about repurposing some of the C band spectrum and arguing "you guys can use fiber" but the NAB has been fighting back hard, saying they consider satellite uplinks more reliable than fiber.

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[goaliebob99]

My understanding is that most are still uplinked from the stadium to the broadcast center via C band satellite, and uplinked from there again via C band to the various MVPDs like Comcast, Directv etc.

The FCC has been talking about repurposing some of the C band spectrum and arguing "you guys can use fiber" but the NAB has been fighting back hard, saying they consider satellite uplinks more reliable than fiber.

Usually the primary path is fiber with a C or KU band backup for major events. I have seen many fiber only events as well.


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[Jimbo]

I think the NFL has been using 4k cameras for awhile now ....

 

[Don in CT]

I think the NFL has been using 4k cameras for awhile now ....

All replay is done in 4k. I imagine most networks have the gear that can broadcast in 4k, wether or not they are doing it is a different story. I doubt they are buying new cameras that only do 1080.

 

[Jimbo]

All replay is done in 4k. I imagine most networks have the gear that can broadcast in 4k, wether or not they are doing it is a different story. I doubt they are buying new cameras that only do 1080.

I'm thinking that Networks already have the 4k cameras (not all obviously) ... but the rest of the equipment that goes along with it to make it work is very expensive.

 

[Don in CT]

I'm thinking that Networks already have the 4k cameras (not all obviously) ... but the rest of the equipment that goes along with it to make it work is very expensive.

How often do networks overhaul their production facilities. At some point they will all be installing 4k backends.