Hybrid LNBF and 3 Wallys

[darkproximity]

I am considering upgrading my Pathway X2 to a tripod dish with Hybrid LNBF for various reasons.

My RV has 3 sattelite inputs; one to each room, each connected to a Wally. I'd like to be able to connect a hybrid lnbf on a tripod with a single coax back to the RV and distribute to each of the rooms.

My understanding is that I would at minimum need a Channel Stack Splitter (4 way). I could mount this near the existing RV sat inputs, run coax from the tripod dish to the input of the splitter, then 3 short runs from the splitter to the 3 rv inputs.

Are there any other components required for this installation? A resistor for the open port on the splitter? a power inserter?

I found this thread from 2018 with a similar scenario, although I'm unsure what is meant by K2 here.

Wally's with Channel Stack Splitters

I've installed a couple of multiple Wally setups in a couple of businesses that are having problems. First one I have 3 Wally's at a bar. Setup is DPP LNB 3 lines into a 42. Out of 42 one line inside to a 42 Power Inserter behind the bar. From that into a 4-Way Channel Stack Splitter, then...

www.satelliteguys.us

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[HipKat]

The top picture is rough but this is off the Tech site we use. That component after the dish is a Power Inserter, I believe

 

[TheKrell]

The top picture is rough but this is off the Tech site we use. That component after the dish is a Power Inserter, I believe

I like the bottom photo with a 4 way splitter a whole lot more than the top! What is the deal with those daisy chained splitters?

 

[Foxbat]

I like the bottom photo with a 4 way splitter a whole lot more than the top! What is the deal with those daisy chained splitters?

Yeah, if all I had were 2-way splitters, I would stack them and not daisy-chain them. Those last two receivers will be seeing 7 dB less signal than the first and 3.5 dB less than the second receivers.

 

[darkproximity]

View attachment 156620

View attachment 156621

The top picture is rough but this is off the Tech site we use. That component after the dish is a Power Inserter, I believe

Do you know when a power inserter is actually required? I figured the wally connected to the dc pass port on the 4 port splitter would provide sufficient voltage to the lnbf. Maybe if the cable between the lnbf and splitter is too long? I was hoping to avoid needing to use a power inserter if possible. I don't have any 120v receptacles near my sat inputs.

In the thread I linked in my original post, user Jsheridan said:

We just used our first channel stack splitter set-up with 3 Wally's on a K2 with a Hybrid LNB and a 4 way splitter. All the Wally's checked switch and activated fine and so far, so good. We made sure the install was close by just in case.

It sounds like they were able to do what I'm picturing, without a power inserter, but im not sure what they meant by "on a k2"

 

[TheKrell]

It sounds like they were able to do what I'm picturing, without a power inserter, but im not sure what they meant by "on a k2"

I think that means a 1000.2 dish. I also think the power inserter is always required. If Jsheridan got away without adding one, then I don't know for how long the Wally on the power passing port will survive. I guess the Trav'ler can be powered by a Wally, so maybe.

 

[darkproximity]

I think that means a 1000.2 dish. I also think the power inserter is always required. If Jsheridan got away without adding one, then I don't know for how long the Wally on the power passing port will survive. I guess the Travelr can be powered by a Wally, so maybe.

Ahh yeah 1000.2 makes sense now.

Any idea what the DPH requires voltage wise? I should be able to check what voltage the wally is getting out to it with a multimeter. I assume the coax is live if the wally is powered on and connected to the coax.

 

[ethanlerma]

I guess the Travelr can be powered by a Wally, so maybe.

Trav’ler’s Have a required control box of sorts that provides power to the servos that do the alignment, although I think the connected receiver does power the LNBF.

Any idea what the DPH requires voltage wise?

The back of my Hopper 3 says 26v, and my Wally says 18v (you can ignore the 13v part, that voltage is only used for polarization on a legacy LNB).

As long as the channel stack splitter you have/plan to buy has a power pass port I think you might be fine, power inserters are usually a requirement when using a switch or to cover large distances. Here you are powering the same integrated switch you would normally power, and having a few more receivers downstream just receiving a signal should be fine. I might be completely wrong though, the LNB switch may require extra juice to perform the splitting of channels over different frequencies (which is what allows the stack splitters to work, if you remember the separators/triplexers for ViP dual tuner systems it’s the same concept), and also, the Hopper 3 runs on the same principle (and just eats up all 16 channels for itself) so it could be the reason it runs on 26v instead of 18v. If you do decide to give it a shot, I would make sure that the Wally you designate as the main one is on the shortest coax run posible.

 

[darkproximity]

Trav’ler’s Have a required control box of sorts that provides power to the servos that do the alignment, although I think the connected receiver does power the LNBF.

The back of my Hopper 3 says 26v, and my Wally says 18v (you can ignore the 13v part, that voltage is only used for polarization on a legacy LNB).

As long as the channel stack splitter you have/plan to buy has a power pass port I think you might be fine, power inserters are usually a requirement when using a switch or to cover large distances. Here you are powering the same integrated switch you would normally power, and having a few more receivers downstream just receiving a signal should be fine. I might be completely wrong though, the LNB switch may require extra juice to perform the splitting of channels over different frequencies (which is what allows the stack splitters to work, if you remember the separators/triplexers for ViP dual tuner systems it’s the same concept), and also, the Hopper 3 runs on the same principle (and just eats up all 16 channels for itself) so it could be the reason it runs on 26v instead of 18v. If you do decide to give it a shot, I would make sure that the Wally you designate as the main one is on the shortest coax run posible.

If a power inserter is needed, does it matter where the inserter is placed in regards to the splitter? Most schematics I've seen show it between the lnbf and the splitter. I could definitely insert power between the splitter and the designated main wally on the power passthru port.

 

[darkproximity]

If a power inserter is needed, does it matter where the inserter is placed in regards to the splitter? Most schematics I've seen show it between the lnbf and the splitter. I could definitely insert power between the splitter and the designated main wally on the power passthru port.

I may have answered my own question. This schematic i found on dishformyrv.com shows the power inserter between the main wally and the splitter.

Now my last question is, do i need a terminator on the open port that i wont be using on the splitter? I've seen 75ohm terminators (i believe thats what they're called) used to "cap" open ports on videos of other sattelite installations with switches.

 

[HipKat]

I like the bottom photo with a 4 way splitter a whole lot more than the top! What is the deal with those daisy chained splitters?

I think that pic might have been from before the 4-Ways were available??

 

[HipKat]

Do you know when a power inserter is actually required? I figured the wally connected to the dc pass port on the 4 port splitter would provide sufficient voltage to the lnbf. Maybe if the cable between the lnbf and splitter is too long? I was hoping to avoid needing to use a power inserter if possible. I don't have any 120v receptacles near my sat inputs.

In the thread I linked in my original post, user Jsheridan said:


It sounds like they were able to do what I'm picturing, without a power inserter, but im not sure what they meant by "on a k2"

I've never installed this setup so I didn't really know.
And damn, I miss JSheridan here

 

[rvvaquero]

And damn, I miss JSheridan here

I can tell you what he would say if he was here. "Hire an independent DISH dealer, if you have a good one in your area".

 

[charlesrshell]

I've never installed this setup so I didn't really know.
And damn, I miss JSheridan here

I wish JSheridan would come back. Has anyone heard from him?

 

[Foxbat]

Now my last question is, do i need a terminator on the open port that i wont be using on the splitter? I've seen 75ohm terminators (i believe thats what they're called) used to "cap" open ports on videos of other sattelite installations with switches.

I'm not a trained Dish Installer, but my EE background says yes, terminate any unused splitter ports with 75 Ω terminators.

 

[darkproximity]

Are there two different power inserters used by Dish?

In a winegard document regarding multiple wallys with a hybrid lnbf, which includes the same image I linked above with the Trav'ler it says to specifically use the power inserter the DPH42 switch uses. They even market an expensive kit that includes this power inserter and a 4 way channel stack splitter (the same one we've been discussing)

I also found an article discussing using a dph42 that specifically states that the power inserter for a dph42 and dpp44 are different. This article provides the part number for the power inserter as well as an image where you can see the part number on the inserter in their installation. The part number is 211057. When i search this pn i find many listings describing it as a DPP44 power inserter.

I'm guessing they are the same but would like confirmation if anyone knows if the two switches use the same or different power inserters.

 

[ethanlerma]

The PN on my installed DPH42 inserter is 211057, and the one for the DPP44 I have laying around is PN 126609. Reading the labels it seems they both provide 28v, but the DPH42 inserter spits out 0.175A more then the DPP inserter (1.650A vs 1.825A). Since the main concern is usually voltage, I want to say they are close enough to be fine, but then again the DPH42 might be picky with the amperage it gets. If I get a chance latter today I might try switching the two and see what happens.

 

[darkproximity]

The PN on my installed DPH42 inserter is 211057, and the one for the DPP44 I have laying around is PN 126609. Reading the labels it seems they both provide 28v, but the DPH42 inserter spits out 0.175A more then the DPP inserter (1.650A vs 1.825A). Since the main concern is usually voltage, I want to say they are close enough to be fine, but then again the DPH42 might be picky with the amperage it gets. If I get a chance latter today I might try switching the two and see what happens.

Ahh so there definitely is a difference. Thank you!

In my case I'll be connecting between a wally, channel stack splitter and dph lnbf. Maybe the lnbf might be picky. I did see it mentioned in an application note for the Super Buddy that dish made 2 versions of the DPH LNBF and one of them has a higher amp draw than the other and certain older super buddys wouldn't run them.

Makes me wonder if the dpp44 power inserter would work on most dph lnbs but not all, so they recommend the dph42 inserter just in case.

 

[cableview]

I may have answered my own question. This schematic i found on dishformyrv.com shows the power inserter between the main wally and the splitter.

Now my last question is, do i need a terminator on the open port that i wont be using on the splitter? I've seen 75ohm terminators (i believe thats what they're called) used to "cap" open ports on videos of other sattelite installations with switches.

This is the correct configuration and the only one on a portable Dish that is actually permitted by Dish Network. If you wanted any other setup here, you would need a switch.

Edit: It needs to specifically be a DPH42 power inserter.

 

[darkproximity]

This is the correct configuration and the only one on a portable Dish that is actually permitted by Dish Network. If you wanted any other setup here, you would need a switch.

Edit: It needs to specifically be a DPH42 power inserter.

I had seen other dish schematics where the inserter was "after" a splitter or hub (between the lnbf and splitter/hub). Much like HipKat posted in his first reply. There was one with a hopper3 and multiple joeys on a moca network with a hybrid duo hub that had the inserter "after" the hub. I wasn't sure if the position of the inserter in the system mattered. If it had to go after the splitter i wouldn't be able to make it work in my RV in a way I'd be comfortable with.