Deal with NPS to "save" distants on DISH!

[Greg Bimson]

Just a guess, Scott. I do admit it was a made-up number. But what I am trying to understand the circumstance in which Dish Network would voluntarily get rid of CBS HD.

I was constant with this issue from the get-go. What I said would happen came true.

 

[Hall]

Show me where Dish had 100,000 CBS HD subscribers.

How many do they really have then ??

 

[navychop]

err- not quite, Greg. I believe you said it would be cut as a DNS. It wasn't. It went away at about the same time because it was no longer economic for Dish to continue it- too few people got it to make it worthwhile continuing.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

I dont have an exact number, but told it was rapidly declining and was no longer economiclly feasable to continue offering it.

 

[Greg Bimson]

err- not quite, Greg. I believe you said it would be cut as a DNS. It wasn't. It went away at about the same time because it was no longer economic for Dish to continue it- too few people got it to make it worthwhile continuing.

But how do you know that it wasn't cut-off as a distant?

That's my whole point. For the 24 hour period before the injunction was slated to start, CBS HD was removed from everyone. Business decision? They had to comply with the cut-off. What made Dish Network to decide that cutting people off of CBS HD was as important as removing distants?

Because it was part of the injunction. Not because Dish Network wasn't making enough money off of it.

We'll never have the "proof". But we do have a few people that believed "CBS HD is going nowhere". And it went, right before the injunction was to take hold.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

And how do you know it was cut off as a distant?

Me? I personally talked to the big "C" about it.

Your source?

 

[Robert NTSC Archivist]

Does the NAB see any difference between CBS HD DNS and CBS DNS when they cut them off. . . after all isnt a DNS HD signal still a DNS signal?

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

They are two totally different birds.

A lot of laws regarding digital rebroadcasts still are not in place yet. Such as Digital Must cary, for example if Dish carries a HD channel and that channel has a secndary channel showing the music video channel "The Tube" must Dish also carry the secondary programming. (And in my area we have 1 channel with 4 subchannels!)

 

[SmityWhity]

Also I know for a fact Greg is a real person, he has been doing this for as long as I have.

I didn't think any of us were real. Just like NPS said in their filings, in one word or less - fictitious.

 

[Greg Bimson]

Posted by Scott Greczkowski:
And how do you know it was cut off as a distant?

Me? I personally talked to the big "C" about it.

Your source?

I've given my source as my ad nauseum dissertation time and time again. It boils down to the fact the agreement between Dish Network and CBS appeared to be a blanket waiver over all CBS O&O only broadcast areas.

Besides, Mr. Ergen is responsible for day-to-day operations of the company. I am fairly certain he wouldn't know that the CBS HD agreement was only a DNS waiver.

Scott is very correct that the "local digital" laws have yet to be made. Digital must-carry has not truly been implemented at this time. However, digital distant networks have always been tied to the same license which Dish Network is now prohibited from using. The only way to deliver a digital distant on Dish Network would be for the network or station in question to clear all copyrights on all programming the station carries. That type of agreement would have also kept CBS HD available on Dish Network.

It is no coincedence that DirecTV has been removing the digital HD feeds for markets where DirecTV currently broadcasts local HD. The networks here gave DirecTV "blanket waivers" for their O&O only reception areas.

 

[SmityWhity]

I just scanned about 4 pages of blog-crap (to put it nicely) and will not go through the trouble to see who said what, but will just comment generically.

In reference to Dish Network providing one or more "lists".

I'm not sure that there were any contradictions on this. Yes NPS did say they got a certain amount of information from Dish, but it was limited info to be used to build and test a database, but primarily was for market research to see if it would be feasible to jump into a new market and not jump into "playing music with Dish" (aka In Active Concert With).

For some, their OPINION based on what appears to be known - Dish will be loosing a substantial customer base, and EchoStar, Dish, NPS, and others will be found in contempt.

For others, their OPINION based on what appears to be known - NPS will be providing DNS to those who have Dish Network compatible equipment.

The bottom line will be when the judge clarifies his injunction.

It's times like these that many say "I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

EDIT: One more thing... I know some stated that the NPS CSR's said they have a list from Dish, but can you really believe what they say? If you believe everything a CSR tells you, then I have a CSR number for you to call 1-800-555-DISH.

 

[Hall]

Me? I personally talked to the big "C" about it.

He's hardly been a reliable source of information in the past... You guys with 5xx receivers, got NBR yet ?? Charlie said you would.

 

[Juan]

Just a guess, Scott. I do admit it was a made-up number. But what I am trying to understand the circumstance in which Dish Network would voluntarily get rid of CBS HD.

I was constant with this issue from the get-go. What I said would happen came true.

Maybe to get more heat on Congress to pass their law??

 

[Hall]

In reference to Dish Network providing one or more "lists".

I'm not sure that there were any contradictions on this. Yes NPS did say they got a certain amount of information from Dish, but it was limited info to be used to build and test a database, but primarily was for market research to see if it would be feasible to jump into a new market and not jump into "playing music with Dish"

Page 9 says they rec'd data from Dish that included names, addresses and telephone numbers of Dish customers who live in areas that Dish doesn't offer local programming or all (4) major networks. It was so that NPS could "judge the potential market". I believe NPS would want, if not require, numbers of potential customers. That's a very valid request and makes sense for NPS to inquire about. They DO NOT NEED names, addresses and phone numbers though. Why ?? Other than they don't/can't trust Dish's estimates, can anyone explain why it's necessary ??

 

[Tower Guy]

Page 9 says they rec'd data from Dish that included names, addresses and telephone numbers of Dish customers who live in areas that Dish doesn't offer local programming or all (4) major networks. It was so that NPS could "judge the potential market". I believe NPS would want, if not require, numbers of potential customers. That's a very valid request and makes sense for NPS to inquire about. They DO NOT NEED names, addresses and phone numbers though. Why ?? Other than they don't/can't trust Dish's estimates, can anyone explain why it's necessary ??

In order to test the business model, NPS would need addresses only, not names and phone numbers. You don't need a phone number to qualify an address for DNS. Decisionmark probably never even knew the phone numbers. The argument made in court by NPS sounds weak to me.

 

[pattib]

I don't know if this will add anything to the "list" theory but...

The first time I logged on to NPS I put in my name, home phone and address. It came back with not qualified for any DN stations.

It didn't dawn on me until several days later that I had changed my contact number with Dish to my cell phone when I had an install appointment several months ago.

I went back and only changed the phone number and I qualified for a couple of channels.

If there wasn't a list, wouldn't it make more sense for NPS to need your home address information or your landline phone number as opposed to your cell phone?

That's what made me almost certain that Dish had shared my information with NPS.

 

[mruk69]

What worries me the most is how much Charlie is pissing off the networks.

For those of us who do qualify for locals, when it comes to re-transmission agreements to keep broadcasting the channels. I remember at least 2 or 3 times we had to lose a channel until an agreement was reached.

 

[vasto]

Quality and drop outs

Getting back to program quality for a moment. Last night Atlanta ABC and Fox from NPS appeared to be digital with a very clean signal. However ABC had a few “stutters” early on and then the last 10 minutes of one prime-time show went black. Gone completely! Fortunately I had the presence of mind to DVR the program from SF and so was able to watch the conclusion. Both SF off-air signals are poor and remind me of struggling with rabbit ears 50 years ago. So with thousands invested in modern equipment I now have a choice of watching incomplete programs with decent quality or ghosting images but, at least, getting the entire program. DirectTV is looking better all the time. Or maybe firing up the old C-band rig and paying $44/ year to get ABC from SPS (1-800-387-3517). Of course I first need to go to eBay to find an IRD that works.

 

[SmityWhity]

If there wasn't a list, wouldn't it make more sense for NPS to need your home address information or your landline phone number as opposed to your cell phone?

That's what made me almost certain that Dish had shared my information with NPS.

The service address would be needed to verify which market, as well as to independently (i.e., non-Dish) validate eligibility to receive DNS.

Then each address would need a unique number in the database for quick sorting, retreival, and other functions. Since NPS and Dish claim to not be in concert with each other, they would not share account numbers. What's easier to go to a record in a database, a unique standard formated number - with 10 digits, such as a telephone number, or an address consisting of Street Number, Street Name, Lane, Street, Avenue, LN, ST, AVE, City, State, etc...?

So in the cell phone case, your service address is listed under a 10 digit reference number that corresponds to a cell phone number.

Hopefully it won't be too long before the dust settles and NPS is allowed to provide DNS via EchoStar birds, and then they can start adding DirecTV customers and non-Satellite customers who would like to activate a receiver strictly to receive Network Broadcasts in isolated places, like fishing camps down in the swamps, mountain cabins, or etc....

EDIT: But again, there were some info shared for select markets with a non-disclosure agreement.

 

[Hall]

The service address would be needed to verify which market, as well as to independently (i.e., non-Dish) validate eligibility to receive DNS.

That's NOT what Dish provided them data for. Read the court documents !