Dish quarterly profit misses on pay-TV subscriber losses . . .

TalonDancer · May 3, 2019

ncted said:
...My point is, at least in the minds of people over a certain age, Dish is still a viable option.

I call them the VCR generation. Folks who grew up using a “clicker” for their TV and VCR, are more likely to be happy with linear TV and DVR recording via Cable/Dish/DirecTV, etc.. And they are more likely to judge the value of a service by the number of “channels”. Many of the current “cord cutter” internet services (YouTube, Sling, etc.) simply mimic the more traditional Cable/Dish/DirecTV linear TV services — without a good quality DVR like the Hopper 3. DUH.

But there is a different group of “cord cutters” that sub to services like Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc. that aren’t interested in the “number of channels” or the DVR capabilities. They are looking for current content “on demand” and are not interested in “storing” that content for potential later viewing (e.g. via a DVR). These are the ones that are not likely to come back to traditional linear TV services regardless of the number of channels or quality of the DVR.

We still sub to the Dish Welcome pack for the locals we can't get OTA. But almost all of our viewing is on Amazon Prime, PBS, etc..

SpaethCo · May 3, 2019

Cheddar_Head said:
I expect that plateau will occur before it is only rural customers left. Why you ask.
1) Increasing fragmentation of the OTT market
...
-- The user experience of the Hopper3 or Genie is light years better than the cloud "DVRs" offered by OTT

I can see these 2 things being a driver for some people to stay or come back to traditional TV distributors. Some aspects of cloud DVR are great: you don't have to worry about tuners, and your recordings are available on any device anywhere in the US with an Internet connection. The downside is that every service has different restrictions, and you usually have to chain together multiple services to cover all of the channels you might be interested in.

Sling - can't record any of the Disney networks (including ESPN), 50 hours max
Vue - Most locals have DVR restrictions, can't record premiums like HBO (Last week tonight problem), can't pause live TV for more than a minute or two, and recording expire after 28 days
Hulu - have to pay an extra $10 for the privilege of being able to forward past commercials, and even then it doesn't work if you pause LiveTV past a commercial break, it will still force you to watch the commercial breaks as you fast forward.
Youtube - CBS and CW shows are swapped with forced commercial VOD options overnight, record as much as you want for the other networks but recording expire after 9 months.
DirecTV NOW - all that time in beta for a 20 hour DVR that can be summed up in 2 words: train wreck.
FuboTV - Didn't even get series record until a few days ago, and it's still a beta feature. TIVO HAD THIS OVER 20 YEARS AGO.
Philo - Record all you want, but recording expire after 30 days.

Individually these restrictions aren't so bad, but depending on your watch habits this could leave you maintaining DVR inventory across multiple services, and having to track shows to make sure you can watch before the recordings expire or get overwritten.

Overall, I think YoutubeTV has the only DVR implementation that would give cable/sat DVR a run for its money. They do pre-fetch on trick-play so it feels local, with none of the lag that most services have. The obvious downside to YoutubeTV is that their channel selection is somewhat restrictive. They're clearly inking deals to get channels that people will tend to watch live (so mostly news and sports) so that they can turn that into a targeted advertising money maker.

charlesrshell · May 3, 2019

SpaethCo said:
I can see these 2 things being a driver for some people to stay or come back to traditional TV distributors. Some aspects of cloud DVR are great: you don't have to worry about tuners, and your recordings are available on any device anywhere in the US with an Internet connection. The downside is that every service has different restrictions, and you usually have to chain together multiple services to cover all of the channels you might be interested in.

Sling - can't record any of the Disney networks (including ESPN), 50 hours max
Vue - Most locals have DVR restrictions, can't record premiums like HBO (Last week tonight problem), can't pause live TV for more than a minute or two, and recording expire after 28 days
Hulu - have to pay an extra $10 for the privilege of being able to forward past commercials, and even then it doesn't work if you pause LiveTV past a commercial break, it will still force you to watch the commercial breaks as you fast forward.
Youtube - CBS and CW shows are swapped with forced commercial VOD options overnight, record as much as you want for the other networks but recording expire after 9 months.
DirecTV NOW - all that time in beta for a 20 hour DVR that can be summed up in 2 words: train wreck.
FuboTV - Didn't even get series record until a few days ago, and it's still a beta feature. TIVO HAD THIS OVER 20 YEARS AGO.
Philo - Record all you want, but recording expire after 30 days.

Individually these restrictions aren't so bad, but depending on your watch habits this could leave you maintaining DVR inventory across multiple services, and having to track shows to make sure you can watch before the recordings expire or get overwritten.

Overall, I think YoutubeTV has the only DVR implementation that would give cable/sat DVR a run for its money. They do pre-fetch on trick-play so it feels local, with none of the lag that most services have. The obvious downside to YoutubeTV is that their channel selection is somewhat restrictive. They're clearly inking deals to get channels that people will tend to watch live (so mostly news and sports) so that they can turn that into a targeted advertising money maker.

WOW, what a deal. Hopper 3 for me.

TheKrell · May 3, 2019

TalonDancer said:
I call them the VCR generation. Folks who grew up using a “clicker” for their TV and VCR...

I grew up with a 19" Zenith B&W TV with a very early remote. It was SONIC! It most definitely made a loud clanking noise when you depressed (with all your finger strength) one of the 2 keys.

dishdude · May 3, 2019

TheKrell said:
I grew up with a 19" Zenith B&W TV with a very early remote. It was SONIC! It most definitely made a loud clanking noise when you depressed (with all your finger strength) one of the 2 keys.

Space Command!

eddie willers · May 3, 2019

TheKrell said:
I grew up with a 19" Zenith B&W TV with a very early remote. It was SONIC! It most definitely made a loud clanking noise when you depressed (with all your finger strength) one of the 2 keys.

A buddy had one and you could shake your keys at it and it would change channels. A cat could hit a note and send it spinning too.

Gobucks · May 3, 2019

My kids could care less how good the Hopper 3 is. To be honest my wife and I enjoy it but could live with a cloud DVR.

We did it when we had PSVUE. Some of us here just use it to fast forward through commercials. We don't keep much on it. We're not addicted to TV.

With a family, full time job and physical therapy 3 times a week we just don't have the time.

The only reason I can see people wanting OTT to fail is because its effecting their business. Competition is good and it helps. It works great here in Columbus. We have low Internet cost with no caps or modem fees.

I can't imagine someone saying man I hope T mobile fails. They helped change wireless. They got Verizon and At&t to bring back unlimited. Competition works if you give it time. I know it's not all the same but still.

I hope OTT keeps going and makes traditional companies better. Dish already did that by making the flex pack. It was brilliant.

comfortably_numb said:
Sorry, but I just don't see it. I don't know anyone under the age of 30 that give's a rat's toucas about having Dish or Direct. Take my younger brother for example. He's 20. When he needs ESPN he uses my dad's Spectrum credentials to stream. He will never sub to a traditional pay TV service. My 15 year old daughter? Couldn't care less about using a "clicker" to flip through channels on a Hopper. If she needs to watch a show on a cable channel, she uses my YTTV credentials. My 30 year old brother uses an Apple TV and OTA. Never paid for cable or satellite in his life.

I know this reality pains a lot of us folk who like satellite tv but it's time to take the reality pill.

The "clicker experience" as I like to call it, for my parents' generation who hate streaming, is mostly lost on anybody under 30. I'm 39 and it took me YEARS to wean myself totally from traditional pay TV, but I finally did

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dweber · May 3, 2019

My son dropped Spectrum cable TV but he is dependent on my Dish Hopper3 receivers. Many of the “cord cutters” are actually watching Dish or cable TV logging into a friend or parent’s system. Let’s see how that works if everyone quits like some are predicting. I predict that Dish will be around for a long time. I am not going to quit Dish. I have tons of archived programs on external hard drives that would become useless. Plus nothing compares to the Hopper3.

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navychop · May 3, 2019

You saying the kids like, or at least accept, watching commercials? It’ll get old with them.

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comfortably_numb · May 3, 2019

dweber said:
Many of the “cord cutters” are actually watching Dish or cable TV logging into a friend or parent’s system.

Or using their credentials for "TV anywhere" apps. My daughter and my brothers do depend on someone else having pay-TV credentials for the live sports and series TV shows. What happens when Mom and Dad kick the bucket? Subscribe to ESPN standalone?

Gobucks · May 3, 2019

I hope Dish is around for a long time. The more competition the better. I love the flex pack. We get ESPN pack and Big Ten Network pack for college football then drop them. No need for locals. We have Tivos that have paid for themselves. Dish has come as close as I've ever seen to having ala cart. I really believe people cutting the cord helped Dish make this pack.

Everyone is different. I can't imagine archiving things just incase I want to watch them again. To each is own and if that's your jam more power to ya.

Our kids watch TV on their iPads. They love Hulu and Netflix. I don't ever seeing our kids with any traditional cable or satellite package.

dweber said:
My son dropped Spectrum cable TV but he is dependent on my Dish Hopper3 receivers. Many of the “cord cutters” are actually watching Dish or cable TV logging into a friend or parent’s system. Let’s see how that works if everyone quits like some are predicting. I predict that Dish will be around for a long time. I am not going to quit Dish. I have tons of archived programs on external hard drives that would become useless. Plus nothing compares to the Hopper3.

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Sent from my SM-G950U1 using the SatelliteGuys app!

eddie willers · May 3, 2019

comfortably_numb said:
Or using their credentials for "TV anywhere" apps. My daughter and my brothers do depend on someone else having pay-TV credentials for the live sports and series TV shows. What happens when Mom and Dad kick the bucket? Subscribe to ESPN standalone?

My nieces moved out of the house to California. I've never changed my Dish Anywhere password because...why? But I sometimes see silly programs queued up to record and I just let it go. So I bet you are right. A lot of these "Cord Cutters" are able to cut the cord because they have a backup in place from Mom & Dad (or others).

mwdxer1 · May 4, 2019

dishdude said:
They're still managing to maintain profitability, but wow...that churn is not sustainable. They're losing a million subscribers a year!

All of the cable/satellite companies are losing a lot of customers. I read well over a million combined the first quarter. People are finding cheaper alternatives streaming and OTA. I have been talking to people that have trimmed the cord or cut it and there are many alternatives. Decent packages as low as $15-$25 a month, add Netflix or Prime, they are happy. The main complaint I hear, are the DVR features either not available or more clunky to use. I presume that will improve in time. I am a bit surprised more people have not gone to Sling though.

Brussam · May 4, 2019

For 13 years we have used satellite TV because, as RVers, that is the only way we could rely on getting TV. As we are leaving the road and building a house, I am in a position to finally have enough Internet bandwidth to try streaming. So far I am not impressed.

For one, counting the number of channels I view on a regular basis, streaming from the multiple source to make those channels would add up to a bill that is almost as big as our Dish bill. And those streaming resources are subject to the same price increases from the content makers as Dish is.

What I really don't like with using multiple stream sources is the lack of a common program guide. I like going through my Hopper guide and seeing all that is available to me at the time. One place.

So I hope that Dish stays around long enough for my end of time because I plan to stay with Dish.

ncted · May 4, 2019

eddie willers said:
My nieces moved out of the house to California. I've never changed my Dish Anywhere password because...why? But I sometimes see silly programs queued up to record and I just let it go. So I bet you are right. A lot of these "Cord Cutters" are able to cut the cord because they have a backup in place from Mom & Dad (or others).

Yep, and the other way. My Sister-In-Law uses her daughters' Amazon and HBO passwords to stream. Of course, she doesn't even have a DVR for her cable package. She could easily get by with OTT streaming, although her ISP isn't the greatest.

TheKrell · May 4, 2019

dishdude said:
Space Command!

Which Space Command you are referring to?

Bobby · May 4, 2019

TheKrell said:
Which Space Command you are referring to?

TheKrell · May 4, 2019

Bobby said:

Aha. I had forgotten that name. The one in the video is rather deluxe compared to ours, which looked like this (only cleaner).

d63f60947a8e7b787d11d466ebf83fe6--television-remote-controls-vintage-tv.jpg

navychop · May 4, 2019

IIRC, our sonic remote only had two buttons. Don’t remember for sure if it was Zenith.

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dishdude · May 4, 2019

TheKrell said:
Aha. I had forgotten that name. The one in the video is rather deluxe compared to ours, which looked like this (only cleaner).

Did old people at the time still have trouble working remotes even being so simple?

Dish quarterly profit misses on pay-TV subscriber losses . . .

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