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Last reply · posted in Broadband Internet
Hi, folks,

I am trying to solve a problem: how to (re)point a HughesNet dish without unnecessary trips to the tripod. As will soon become obvious, I am beginning with a vast pool of ignorance, but have researched on the net. Here are some things I think are accurate, and some conclusions which might be true. I am hoping that you can help me from wasting money/energy on an approach which will not work.

Background:

I expect to be living where there are no telephone, DSL, WiFi, cable, power lines, or professional installers. Will move on occasion, by necessity.

I have learned about how RVers manage with a tripod, and have gathered all of the finding programs and pointing instructions I can find. What I need to do (by reason of health) is to automate the pointing process as much as possible.

Equipment: DW7000, .74 plastic dish, 1 watt (assumed --no markings) BUC. Feedhorn is a narrow ellipse with a vertical long axis.

Things I have found out:

Assume a polar mount rotator: STAB HH 120
Assume a plumb pole
Assume a Mercury II FTA receiver.
RE: the Mercury II, Sadoun says:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"The M-II is one of the few consumer receivers that will identify the frequency, symbol rate, polarity, FEC and even the PIDS for positive lock to any KU or C-Band satellite"[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The STAB website claims that if you point the Mercury II at a satellite directly south, the USALS program will be able to find, identify, and lock on, the other geostationary sats.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][Incidentally, the TopoZone website gives Lat/Long with 4 or 5 decimal places, AND the CURRENT magnetic declination. On the topo of my location, this is more than 3 degrees less than the printed USGS map.][/FONT]



EchoStar 9/Galaxy 23 at 121.0°W lies within 3/10ths of a degree of Due South from my longitude. I am confident that I can "plumb" the pole, and set the HH 120 local latitude, and center it dead south.



Still a little confused about the other two angles (between the HH 120 and the Hughes dish). different sites have different formulas,and none contemplate the Hughes offset dish.



I assume/hope that I can use an "Align A Site" mounted on the top of the dish to set the dish at the proper elevation of Echostar 9 as if it were on a solid pole mount.


So, assuming that the pole is plumb; the HH 120 is aimed dead south; and set to the local latitude; and that the dish is elevated to the proper degree found by using DSSatTool et al; and the skew set at zero; I think:

1. The Mercury II should see the Due South satellite

2. That it could then locate (per USALS) and lock on to the satellite to which my modem will be commisioned (presumably HZN-6K @ 127 degrees W)

[I have seen in several places that a polar HH mount causes (by its "polar" nature) the skew to be correct, for all Geostationaries.]

3 If (when the assigned satellite is located by USALS) I can successfully "peak" the dish with minor adjustments, I assume/hope that, when set up in another location, and assuming a plumb pole, and HH 120 initially pointed dead south, that the dish would maintain the above fine tuning settings, when USALS moves the dish to the assigned sat.

Do "geostationary satellites" all, and always, maintain the same elevation and and skew? Or do they wander a little?

Since the Mercury II can receive DVB signals, and HughesNet transmits in DVB (actully, DVB S2, I think) should/can I route the signal to the DW7000 IP S through the Merc II, or should I move the coax cable to the DW7000?

What I really want to know is whether this idea will not work, so that I do not waste scarce resources, but if so, why it won't work, so I can try to figure out a way which will work.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

IGGY
p.s. I am aware that Hughes does not officially approve of any set up by other than professional installers. This is a matter of actual necessity.

p.p.s. The pole clamp on the Hughes dish appears to be made for a 2 3/8" pole, and the HH 129 rotor is about 2 1/8". Any ideas how and what to insert between them which will maintain concentricity with the rotor?
6 Replies · 2901 views
I
Thanks.
That sounds good.

Iggy:)
I
Official Install Manuals?

Time presses. I have ordered the equipment, on the chance it will work.

Found two Hughes "Antenna Owners Installation Manuals."

They appear to be official Hughes documents.

FWIW:

http://www.icsm.net/manuals/DirecWay Consumer Antenna Installation Manual.pdf

http://www.stratosglobal.com/documents/factsheets/hughesNet_userguide_98KuBandAssembly.pdf
I
Progress (?) Report

All:

Well, it finally DID work; at least long enough to complete the commissioning process. Then it dropped the signal. (Maybe I need to finish the grounding system.)

A couple of things I found out, which might be of use to others:

1. The Mercury II has a user's manual, but you have to figure out most of the functions on your own.

2. The priority for the M II is automatically changing between satellites, when you change channels. This makes it more difficult to do manual moves, when trying to identify satellites. Even though you specifically set "positioners" to off, (in antenna setup) when you select another satellite and begin to select USALS and then GO TO, the receiver begins the move before you request it. Then, when you push GO TO, USALS fails to find the sat. You need to GO TO 0 (South) and then GO TO the new sat.

3. Out of the box, the M II "satellite names" and "known transponders" lists are obsolete. It "sees" TPs not in its lists, not in Lyngsat.com, nor even SatcoDX.com! It also fails to "see" many which are on those lists.

4. It shows L and R rotating polarization as two TPs on the same freq, but one is V and one is H.

5. It apparently cannot "see" Hughesnet TPs. On my commissioning sat, it only recognized ONE transponder (with some encrypted cable channels) but, when I connected the DW7000, I immediately got a 60 + signal, and it passed manual crosspol in about 30 seconds. Of course, I lost the signal immediately after the commissioning ritual.

6. The various "pointing" programs (both in the modem, and on the web) tend to give slightly different pointing values. Worse yet, Magnetic Declination figures vary by up to 4 degrees, depending on the source. Most compasses have marks at 2 degree intervals. The Hughes mounting hardware has degree markings which (even presuming that they are actually accurate) are so coarse that anything less than one degree is problematic.

7. Somebody should publish the Hughes/DirecWay Local Oscillator freq (I used 10750) AND what the 22Khz signal means (turning it ON immediately lost the signal), AND what the "Offset Angle" is for the HughesNet dishes.

Iggy
I
NO progress report -- dazed and confused.

The connection/commissioning in my earlier post was a fluke. :o In the daylight, it became obvious that the dish was pointing right in the middle of a large tree. It would still pick up one transponder on that sat (G16/G4 99.0) but nothing else.

So... Moved the dish to a place where I think it will get both due south (121.0) and 99.0. Although repeatability without unnecessary hassle was the point of this experimental rig, there is NO repeatability.

Now, even though it is pointed dead south, and therefore (in theory) within 0.3 degree of Echostar 9/Galaxy 23; it will no longer pick up that south sat, 121.0. In fact, it would pick up nothing. I adjusted the elevation with the SF10S satellite finder, and now it is picking up 11964/H/2921 (signal level 65-70, quality 34-36) This is the "White Springs" channel which Lyngsat says is on Galaxy 27 @129.0. The receiver plays it on my TV, although it is not a good picture, and drops out often.

It is also picking up 12020/H/2359. (Signal Level 70-72, Quality 63-68.) The Mercury II will not recognize anything on this transponder, and I have yet to find it anywhere near 121.0 degrees (dead south).

I am using the same compass, with the same declination set (~17 degrees) in it.

I hope somebody can tell me what I have done wrong. :confused:

Thanks.

Iggy
I
Run down by a Magnetic Bus

After much trial and error, it turns out my problem was a bus. A Mini-bus, to be exact.

When I re-sited the dish, i used the window frame on a parked Mini-bus as an aiming point for true south. Because it is difficult to get a precise bearing from the back side of the dish, I went to the said window frame and shot a back course TO the front of the dish.

Under nominal conditions, a check on the back course will allow one to correct a flawed primary course. Unfortunately, the bus caused enough DEVIATION (about 7.5 degrees) so that the total error was around 10 degrees. :o Not a product of clear thinking!

So, now it is on the arc, and receiving the sats it should, where they should be. It turns out that 99.0 is still enough inside the tree that I can only connect to one scrambled cable tv tp, (shown on Lyngsat) and a similar tp with several digital telephony channels, NOT on Lyngsat.

Not sure if I have enough room to re-re-site, in order to miss the tree, and too exhausted to begin.

Although there is a menu way to turn off power to the LNB, (in order to make a clean move to a new sat) during the return to the antenna setup through the menus, a "moving to..." bar appears, sometimes more than once. Since there is no way of telling whether it is actually moving, OR when it stops you often need to "go to 0" to be sure of accuracy.

The dish moves so slowly that I cannot tell if it has only moved a few degrees. I sure could use a certain, positive on/off switch for the LNB/rotor power.

If anybody knows about such a switch, please let me know. Also, if somebody knows the exact LNB offset, for a Hughes (DirecWay, actually) .74 dish, that would help, a lot.

IGGY
Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
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dishstaller
I Wanna Talk About Me - Toby Keith
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Bobby
98.6 - Keith
harshness
I'm Easy - Keith Carridine
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gms49ers
It's Easy - Boston
RaiderPower
Take It Easy On Me - Little River Band
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R
Last reply · posted in Computers and Gadgets
Lately my eight year old Dell laptop has been shutting off even when I have a full battery. I have had to keep it plugged up all the time to keep this from happening. Any idea what is causing this? I replaced the battery about three years ago.
2 Replies · 43 views
arlo
A recalibration might be needed. Even if it shows full, the individual cells may have become unbalaced. And the BMS chip in the battery reports false information to the pc.
Try this. Start it up in the bios/uefi and leave it there until the battery dies and it shuts off.
It might just keep running longer than in Windows. Or run for a short while and shut off.
If it's the first case. Probably just needs a balancing. If the latter, the pack might just be dead.
Not throwing stones but perhaps just a cheaply constructed battery with substandard cells. Could be.

Patience. Keep restarting it in bios/uefi until it won't fire up anymore.
Then plug the charger in and let it complete a full charge. And see what happens. If it's better.
Do the same thing one more time. Run it until it dies dead-dead. Then just let it charge, pc shut off.
When charged, it might be better. It might not be.

There are bench jigs that read the actual BMS and override it to let a tech manually monitor and charge the separate packs. They can also reset any "time bombs" in it that cause an otherwise good pack to show bad.
Maybe Santa will be good to me some year.

You might just need a new battery. Maybe the PC power management chip is going. A Dell common thing.
Leaving a laptop plugged in with a full battery is known to reduce the life. Asus for one recommends that you don't leave the charger plugged in all of the time even when shut down. And setting Windows to charge the battery to 85% instead of 100% increases life.
That's all I got.
dishstaller
That's all I got.
That was quite enough....I definitely learned something from your post. Thanks
TRG
TRG
Pub Member / Supporter
Last reply · posted in Computers and Gadgets
I set up a music server for my brother a few years ago. It's basically a small headless computer but it needs to have a DHCP IP address reserved for it in the router settings. This was easy to do in his DSL router. He's switching to Starlink now and I was wondering if these setting are easily accessible in the Starlink router. I'm pretty sure he will be getting the latest V5 router.
5 Replies · 282 views
b4pjoe
I set up a music server for my brother a few years ago. It's basically a small headless computer but it needs to have a DHCP IP address reserved for it in the router settings. This was easy to do in his DSL router. He's switching to Starlink now and I was wondering if these setting are easily accessible in the Starlink router. I'm pretty sure he will be getting the latest V5 router.
If you can't get into the router to reserve an IP address just don't use DHCP on the device that needs connected and assign it to a specific IP address in the network settings.
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HipKat
I set up a music server for my brother a few years ago. It's basically a small headless computer but it needs to have a DHCP IP address reserved for it in the router settings. This was easy to do in his DSL router. He's switching to Starlink now and I was wondering if these setting are easily accessible in the Starlink router. I'm pretty sure he will be getting the latest V5 router.
They are not. Your best bet is to set up a third-party router, attached to the Starlink for your server, that you can get into, like a Linksys, etc
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Foxbat
…it needs to have a DHCP IP address reserved for it in the router settings. This was easy to do in his DSL router. He's switching to Starlink now and I was wondering if these setting are easily accessible in the Starlink router. I'm pretty sure he will be getting the latest V5 router.
The Starlink V5 Install Kit I just got comes with the Mini Router. It is pretty limited in what it can do. For example, it can provide only one IP subnet at a time, no Guest Network, but it does support the pass-thru to a third-party Router. You can also split the Wi-Fi into separate 5 GHz & 2.4 GHz SSIDs to help some IoT devices that don't support 5 GHz bands to work.

The larger Starlink Router that still comes with the V4 Kit does support a Guest Network with separate IPv4 Subnet, but it's $120 from Starlink. And it still won't do DHCP Reservations.
harshness
If you can restrict the DHCP address space to assign addresses to one end of the subnet (i.e. x.x.x.50+), you can manually assign the IP address on pretty much any operating system. This is a default behavior on several popular routers. As the Router Mini only supports 235 devices, I expect that's already done.

Another option is to use a router that supports PoE to power the antenna. This article discusses that option (under PoE Power heading):

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Foxbat
Now that I've had the v5 kit with the Mini Router, it's not as bad as I first thought. Yes, no DHCP reservations, but you can set up multiple SSIDs that have separate IPv4 subnets, and like the big brother, you can select from 192.168.x.0/24 or 10.x.0.0/16 (where "x" is 1-4).

You can also split a subnet and have different SSIDs for the 5 GHz and 2.4 GHz channels to handle some IoT devices. I haven't discovered what subnet the 2nd NIC on the router assigns, I'm guessing it's the first subnet.
dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
2 Replies · 50 views
dishstaller
Sorry for posting the wrong link. Just corrected it.
dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Terrible tragedy. You would think that they would have safe guards in place that would prevent something like this from happening. I guess if you are going to ride in a passenger train it might be best to get a car near the rear.

2 Replies · 53 views
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Jimbo
Terrible tragedy. You would think that they would have safe guards in place that would prevent something like this from happening. I guess if you are going to ride in a passenger train it might be best to get a car near the rear.

They will have to look at the switching sections to determine WHY 2 trains were on the same track ... at the same time.
dishstaller
Thought this article might be of interest to some of you who might travel via train.