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Supporting Founder
Pub Member / Supporter
This is not an HD Lite thread.
With all the claims that DirecTV is about to launch a hundred HD channels, I decided I should once again revisit what they are doing with their PQ. Many have claimed they improved it. My method is to compare equal channels with Dish Network.
I looked at HDNet, HDNET Movies, and Discovery HD Theater for starters. I did this A/B comparison over the past 6 days.
All three channels on DirecTV appeared sharper and brighter than Dishnetwork, which could be said to be "softer" than DirecTV.
On a quick glance this is what one sees, even a blind test- which is a better picture, the call would go to DirecTV.
However, upon closer look, I discovered DirecTV's channels were actually white clipped and black stretched. The Dish channels were properly balanced in the upper and lower luminance regions. Both appeared to have the same amount of detail in the middle of the luminance spectrum.
What this clipping and black stretch does is make the image "brighter" with more luster, however, it also causes a suffer of lost detail in the shadows and lost detail in the whites that Dish Network retains.
If this were just one channel, I would have said something is out of adjustment, but since this was on three channels and over several days period of time, I have to credit DirecTV with making this mis-adjusted picture intentionally as a policy or they have some newbie in engineering who just needs to be watched over. I hope DirecTV can fix this. Meanwhile I will be looking at other channels PQ with not just detail but also the level of white clip and black stretch being added.
Another thought is that DirecTV is using the same logic as monitors are set at for in store sales vs in home viewing. The brightness and contrast is cranked way up for in store viewing. Since D* cannot adjust my monitor in the my home they have adjusted the picture before sending. Unfortunately when it is adjusted before airing, I can't pull that detail in those clipped and stretched regions back to normal. It is lost.
With all the claims that DirecTV is about to launch a hundred HD channels, I decided I should once again revisit what they are doing with their PQ. Many have claimed they improved it. My method is to compare equal channels with Dish Network.
I looked at HDNet, HDNET Movies, and Discovery HD Theater for starters. I did this A/B comparison over the past 6 days.
All three channels on DirecTV appeared sharper and brighter than Dishnetwork, which could be said to be "softer" than DirecTV.
On a quick glance this is what one sees, even a blind test- which is a better picture, the call would go to DirecTV.
However, upon closer look, I discovered DirecTV's channels were actually white clipped and black stretched. The Dish channels were properly balanced in the upper and lower luminance regions. Both appeared to have the same amount of detail in the middle of the luminance spectrum.
What this clipping and black stretch does is make the image "brighter" with more luster, however, it also causes a suffer of lost detail in the shadows and lost detail in the whites that Dish Network retains.
If this were just one channel, I would have said something is out of adjustment, but since this was on three channels and over several days period of time, I have to credit DirecTV with making this mis-adjusted picture intentionally as a policy or they have some newbie in engineering who just needs to be watched over. I hope DirecTV can fix this. Meanwhile I will be looking at other channels PQ with not just detail but also the level of white clip and black stretch being added.
Another thought is that DirecTV is using the same logic as monitors are set at for in store sales vs in home viewing. The brightness and contrast is cranked way up for in store viewing. Since D* cannot adjust my monitor in the my home they have adjusted the picture before sending. Unfortunately when it is adjusted before airing, I can't pull that detail in those clipped and stretched regions back to normal. It is lost.
19 Replies
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3584 views
Thanks, very helpful info.
Itll be interesting to see how the mpeg4 nationals look soon.
Is there any input yet on whether the HD nationals on the new bird will be 1280,1440 or 1920?
Doesn't much matter to me as I only have a 1280x720p tv
Last question(I think), is there a "uplink activity report" like we see on E*?
Itll be interesting to see how the mpeg4 nationals look soon.
Is there any input yet on whether the HD nationals on the new bird will be 1280,1440 or 1920?
Doesn't much matter to me as I only have a 1280x720p tv
Last question(I think), is there a "uplink activity report" like we see on E*?
I am suspicious of that. I suspect that 1920x1080 = 2.07 million small square pixels converted to 1280 x 720p looks better than 1280x1080 = 1.38 million larger rectangular pixels converted to 1280 x 720p? Just my guess.Doesn't much matter to me as I only have a 1280x720p tv
Back on topic-
To clarify, my test was indeed done with MP2 channels as that is all I can receive now on D*. However, knowing a bit about TV production, I felt the artifact I listed, white clip and black stretch to make the video look brighter, would be upstream of the mp2 or mp4 encoding process. Meaning that this choice to make the picture look this way has little to do with MP4 vs. MP2. Those of you who can receive the same channel on both and know what to look for, can offer your observations. Not sure that is even possible. You would need both MP4 and MP2 receivers and control each on each transmission to tell.
Maybe the real complaint I have is that this practice is not producing a good quality picture but rather a more vibrant one. I thought I equated it to the monitor in store adjustment vs, at home adjustment. The detail is there but lost in the white clip areas. The detail is there in the blacks but at some point in the shadows it is gone compared to the same image on Dish Network's picture. Yes, in this respect it was a comparison of DN to DTV. But the DN image was less vibrant and more regions of the picture with detail. Take your choice!
To clarify, my test was indeed done with MP2 channels as that is all I can receive now on D*. However, knowing a bit about TV production, I felt the artifact I listed, white clip and black stretch to make the video look brighter, would be upstream of the mp2 or mp4 encoding process. Meaning that this choice to make the picture look this way has little to do with MP4 vs. MP2. Those of you who can receive the same channel on both and know what to look for, can offer your observations. Not sure that is even possible. You would need both MP4 and MP2 receivers and control each on each transmission to tell.
Maybe the real complaint I have is that this practice is not producing a good quality picture but rather a more vibrant one. I thought I equated it to the monitor in store adjustment vs, at home adjustment. The detail is there but lost in the white clip areas. The detail is there in the blacks but at some point in the shadows it is gone compared to the same image on Dish Network's picture. Yes, in this respect it was a comparison of DN to DTV. But the DN image was less vibrant and more regions of the picture with detail. Take your choice!
Just out of curiosity, when you do these side-by-side comparisons, are you viewing both sources via HDMI, or is it HDMI on one and Component on the other? And even if it is identical inputs, are the various inputs both calibrated the same? My TV allows/requires distinct variations of settings on all inputs, even both HDMI; rather than a "this applies to all HDMI inputs".Maybe the real complaint I have is that this practice is not producing a good quality picture but rather a more vibrant one. I thought I equated it to the monitor in store adjustment vs, at home adjustment. The detail is there but lost in the white clip areas. The detail is there in the blacks but at some point in the shadows it is gone compared to the same image on Dish Network's picture. Yes, in this respect it was a comparison of DN to DTV. But the DN image was less vibrant and more regions of the picture with detail. Take your choice!
Supporting Founder
Lifetime Supporter
Comcast is the first to report, with a massive 274,000 loss in video subscribers.
In the 3Q of 2016, Comcast had 21.42 million video subscribers and was the #1 provider, now at 10.39 million and is the #3 Provider, YTTV is #2 ( who also surpassed DirecTV-8 Million and Dish-under 5 Million), Charter/Spectrum is #1.
cordcuttersnews.com
In the 3Q of 2016, Comcast had 21.42 million video subscribers and was the #1 provider, now at 10.39 million and is the #3 Provider, YTTV is #2 ( who also surpassed DirecTV-8 Million and Dish-under 5 Million), Charter/Spectrum is #1.
Comcast Just Lost 274,000 TV Customers & 144,000 Internet Customers In Just Three Months | Cord Cutters News
Comcast Corporation reported its third-quarter 2026 results on October 22, showing continued erosion in its domestic residential broadband internet and video customer bases as competitive pressures intensified across the connectivity market. The company recorded a net loss of 144,000 domestic...
cordcuttersnews.com
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2 views
Pub Member / Supporter
Lifetime Supporter
I'm surprised Walmart hasn't banned this guy from all of their stores. He has been on their CASE the past few months.
View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/f3zr37ekgKM?feature=share
View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/f3zr37ekgKM?feature=share
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253 views
Unless the specific product or its packaging is known at the time of weighing, estimating the tare weight for a PoS system is a tall order.
I'm pretty sure that produce bags can't get any thinner.
You certainly don't want to put unbagged produce on a belt, scale, or in a clerk's hands (gloved or not).
I would think that all the packaging would already be accounted for ... they weigh the container, subtract that from the scale, then add the product , so its weighing the Product onlyUnless the specific product or its packaging is known at the time of weighing, estimating the tare weight for a PoS system is a tall order.
I'm pretty sure that produce bags can't get any thinner.
You certainly don't want to put unbagged produce on a belt, scale, or in a clerk's hands (gloved or not).
Staff member
Pub Member / Supporter
Cutting Edge
The TPN Map Excel Presents all DIRECTV Channels:
Understanding the TPN Map
Making Sense of the TPN Map Display Conventions
National (50-States or wide/NAT+PR beams)
Local (Local-Into-Local or narrow/Spot beams)
Local (Local-Into-Local or narrow/Spot beams)
Additional tabs provide:
OTA the (Over-The-Air) Database
VOD (Video On_Demand) Records
Offline Records
Engr Records
Net Decoder a graphic presentation of all satellites and transponders
VOD (Video On_Demand) Records
Offline Records
Engr Records
Net Decoder a graphic presentation of all satellites and transponders
Domestic Satellites
@99W...... D11, D14
@101W.... D16
@103W.... D12, D15
@110W.... D5
@119W.... D8
@99W...... D11, D14
@101W.... D16
@103W.... D12, D15
@110W.... D5
@119W.... D8
Understanding the TPN Map
Making Sense of the TPN Map Display Conventions
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935904 views
Lifetime Supporter
Schedule drops tomorrow. Mandatory mini camps in June. Hall of Fame game August 6th.
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2086 views
The situation w/ the Titans and Jordan Elliott is scary.
sports.yahoo.com
Makes me think of the Javon Belcher murder suicide.
Titans' Jordan Elliott was released after reportedly going to retrieve a gun after dispute at practice
Jordan Elliott lasted just five games with the Titans.
Makes me think of the Javon Belcher murder suicide.
Staff member
HERE TO HELP YOU!
Cutting Edge
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!
So let the game continue!
The last song was added by Bobby who posted...
One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters
CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!
Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game
Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.
Example:
Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow
Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio
Another example:
Ride the Lightning -- Metallica
Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne
Get it?
An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
So let the game continue!
The last song was added by Bobby who posted...
One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters
CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!
Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game
Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.
Example:
Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow
Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio
Another example:
Ride the Lightning -- Metallica
Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne
Get it?
An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
68567 Replies
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2675718 views
iJustine
Time for another AWESOME video from iJustine!
View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cSIz5ZEDKaY
Direct YouTube Link - Left handed Duo?
The official iJustine Website's Website
Buy her book!
View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cSIz5ZEDKaY
Direct YouTube Link - Left handed Duo?
The official iJustine Website's Website
Buy her book!
0 Replies
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6 views
Pub Member / Supporter
Lifetime Supporter
Just finished S2. Watching Gary Oldman as deshvilved, dejected MI-6 agent, Jackson Lamb, is one of the best things streaming right now. Already 2 more seasons in the works. HIGHLY recommended. And yes, Mick Jagger sings the theme.
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6744 views
Pub Member / Supporter
Lifetime Supporter
He was 71 yrs old. One of my favorite songs is Seminole Wind....the violin is killer.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8sh9P3X33w
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8sh9P3X33w
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64 views
Interesting article about the work being done to develope an ATSC 3 converter box. Yes it does mention affordable.
www.tvtechnology.com
Pearl TV Issues Progress Report on Low-Cost 3.0 Converters in Advance of NAB Show New York
Group has secured lower pricing from key tech players to make less costly boxes available
www.tvtechnology.com
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251 views
It's dead, they just don't know it yet. They killed it by forcing DRM on it, and that TOTALLY botched implementing it.
There is absolutely NO compelling reason for anybody to switch to ATSC3.0. They only want it as a total and complete money grab.
TFLEV
Time for another AWESOME video from TFL Electric Vehicles!
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lIepOAbUWs
Direct YouTube Link - I Drive the MOST POPULAR Chinese Car in the World: You Won't Believe What the Geely E2 Costs!
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lIepOAbUWs
Direct YouTube Link - I Drive the MOST POPULAR Chinese Car in the World: You Won't Believe What the Geely E2 Costs!
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14 views