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sking
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Wiring question

I just built a new house and run the wiring in it. When I wired the house I pulled an RG6 cable to each room I wanted to watch satellite in. The house is ready for the Dish installer to come out and hook us up. They signed me up for two DVR recievers that can operate two tvs each. Did I mess up by only pulling one RG6 cable to each room? I am guessing I should have pulled two. The house is a walk out basement with a story above the basement so it would be very hard to pull additional wires with out tearing out a bunch of sheetrock. What do you guys think?
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Furbox
Well as someone who has been in the TV repair, antenna and satellite installation and rf distribution business since 1974(33 years), I can honestly say I have NEVER seen an RG59 cable 'burn out' due to exceeding it's specs under normal conditions. Of course lightning doesn't count in this discussion. DSS and Dishnet receivers are very limited in the amount of current they can put out. I have never seen any working LNB setup that draws more than 1000 milliamps. Even if the LNB shorts which could theoretically cause infinite current to flow, most receivers are not capable of putting out much more than 500 milliamps. All DSS and Dish receivers put out 18 volts and 13 volts depending on polarity. BUDs use 21 volts for LNB power.
Exceeding it's tested frequency will definitely not damage or wear out a cable. The cable will only pass what it can. You cannot 'force' it to pass anymore(at least not with the ammount of rf power coming out of an LNB).
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Tyralak
Tyralak
Furbox said:
Well as someone who has been in the TV repair, antenna and satellite installation and rf distribution business since 1974(33 years), I can honestly say I have NEVER seen an RG59 cable 'burn out' due to exceeding it's specs under normal conditions. Of course lightning doesn't count in this discussion. DSS and Dishnet receivers are very limited in the amount of current they can put out. I have never seen any working LNB setup that draws more than 1000 milliamps. Even if the LNB shorts which could theoretically cause infinite current to flow, most receivers are not capable of putting out much more than 500 milliamps. All DSS and Dish receivers put out 18 volts and 13 volts depending on polarity. BUDs use 21 volts for LNB power.
Exceeding it's tested frequency will definitely not damage or wear out a cable. The cable will only pass what it can. You cannot 'force' it to pass anymore(at least not with the ammount of rf power coming out of an LNB).
Click to expand...

According to Echostar's engineering department, (I asked specifically last week) the dielectric (what is actually carrying the signal) in RG-59 breaks down when used in DPP installations. DPP receivers actually put out 750 milliamps not 500. And since DPP by it's very nature isn't voltage switched, it's putting out 19.2 volts constantly not switching between 13 and 18.
In 90 percent of the cases when I come out to fix a DPP system which was installed on RG-59, and find the cable to be bad, the cable not only doesn't pass a signal, it won't even tone out anymore. This isn't due to just "30 year old cable" as the other poster put it. This happens on NEW RG-59. The reason Dish stopped including the little piece of RG-59 in the box with receivers (the one that says only for use between receiver and TV) is because we had so many trouble calls where the original installer was too lazy to make another jumper, and used it between the receiver and wall plate. I've replaced more of those than I can count. It's the same reason we have to replace wall plates that contain low frequency barrel connectors. The cease to function after a period of time, often a very short period of time. Low frequency barrels are a big trouble call driver. I go to at least a couple a week where the installer left a low frequency barrel in the system, and it stopped working.
When the DPP stuff first came out, I was still a subcontractor, and I didn't believe it either. I always said "That's a bunch of crap. It worked fine when I was there." That is until I started getting chargebacks when the company I worked for extended the chargeback time from 3 months to 6 months. I started finding out that 59 really doesn't work that well. I had to go back to those jobs where the 59 "worked fine" and replace it. Apparently this had been happening on regular DP also, but back when the chargeback time was only 3 months, I never noticed it.
Look, I might buy the previous argument that it had to be all manner of external factors, (connectors, staples, etc) and not the 59, except for the fact that I've never seen RG-6 fail like that. The only times I've seen RG-6 fail is when there was significant damage to the cable. 59 fails when it's in perfectly good shape.
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Andrewwski
Tyralak said:
According to Echostar's engineering department, (I asked specifically last week) the dielectric (what is actually carrying the signal)
Click to expand...

Dude, you lose absolutely any credibility you had right there.

The dielectric is the insulative material between the conductor and shielding.

And no, it can't break down. Furbox is right. Under your theory, RG6 will also break down, just at a slower rate, but eventually failing too.
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Tyralak
Tyralak
Andrewwski said:
Dude, you lose absolutely any credibility you had right there.

The dielectric is the insulative material between the conductor and shielding.

And no, it can't break down. Furbox is right. Under your theory, RG6 will also break down, just at a slower rate, but eventually failing too.
Click to expand...

Perhaps I wasn't as clear with what I wrote as I should have been. I'm right now looking at some of the DNS training materials. The diagram shows the signal as a wave bouncing from the center conductor to the braid through the dialectric, which is why sharp bends or pinches in the cable cause signal loss. The dialectric is indeed an insulator, but that isn't it's only function.
I submitted this question to the QAS (Quality Assurance Specialist. Our quality inspector) He said this is the answer from engineering. So, that's what I got.

I noticed you didn't touch the rest of my post. Look, either you're right and RG-59 works just fine for DPP, and the rest of us who deal with this stuff every day are imagining all these failures, or you're wrong.

RG-6 is rated for those frequencies, so no it won't.
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Andrewwski
Sort of. The center conductor is what is carrying the signal. The dielectric is irrelevant - you just need to know that it's there. It doesn't matter if it's plastic or foam or whatever, just understand that it's an insulator, and it's physically separating the shielding from the center conductor.

The center conductor is what you transfer the signal through. But if it were just the center conductor, without any shielding, you'd basically have one really long antenna. You would be losing signal through it, as well as gaining interference.

That's where the shielding comes in. It separates the outside environment from that of the center conductor. Therefore, the signals traveling through the center conductor are broadcast off into the dielectric, where they hit the shielding, but cannot escape. If the shielding was not present, they'd be broadcast into the surrounding environment. The shielding also acts as an interference barrier. Any signal outside the cable will hit the shielding and not pass through, therefore not impacting the signal.

The dielectric only has relevance in the fact that it's there. It doesn't matter what material it is made from, as long as its not conductive. So there is no possible way that the dielectric can break down. Unless, of course, you propose that somehow the dielectric suddenly gains a degree of conductivity, therefore shorting together the center conductor and shielding to some extent.

I'm not saying that RG59 is "just fine" for DPP. I have tried to make it clear that it is not ideal, and should not be used when avoidable.

However, the issues with RG59 and DPP are not this magical "burn-out". It has to do with signal attenuation of upper frequencies, which are used more in DPP than DP and Legacy. Typical RG59 attenuates 3000 mhz at about -17 db per 100 feet, while typical RG6 attenuates 3000 mhz at about -10 db per 100 feet. THAT ALONE is the issue with DPP and RG59. Over a long cable run...which can be the typical length from the distribution point to a room, the higher frequencies are attenuated too much and do not pass well.

There is no such thing as "burn out." Explain to me, in molecular terms, what happens when you try and pass higher freqencies through a cable that cannot pass them. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. They just don't pass. The cable doesn't heat up. Nor does some slow chemical reaction take place that degrades the conductivity of the copper or the insulation of the dielectric. Not happening.

Which is why your theory applies to RG6 too...if the cable is really being degraded, and RG6 is the same exact thing but with a thicker conductor, thicker dielectric, and more shielding, the same process will take place, just at a slower rate.
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KKlare
KKlare
To some extent the coax cable is a wave guide. RG-6 has two advantages.
(1) The foam dielectric attenuates the high frequency signal less between the core and shield than the solid polyethene of RG-59.
(2) The center conductor is larger in diameter to compensate for the lower dielectric constant of the foam and to maintain the 75 ohm impedance. As a benefit, the larger core lowers the resistance at low frequency--power and switching--which is where it could "burn out."
(Aside: the lower dielectric constant allows faster propagation, say .8 vs .6 speed of light (c), IIRC. Ideal coax would have only vacuum, air, or nitrogen dielectric with near 1.0 c and little dissipation loss. Minimal foam support is expensive and very inflexible, say $5 per foot and 2' radius of turn, if corrugated.)
RG-6 is a good, inexpensive compromise. RG-11 would be better, larger for DC but still would have solid poly and its dissipation and a tinned stranded core--twice the diameter and say 4 times the cost.
-Ken
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Tyralak
Tyralak
KKlare said:
To some extent the coax cable is a wave guide. RG-6 has two advantages.
(1) The foam dielectric attenuates the high frequency signal less between the core and shield than the solid polyethene of RG-59.
(2) The center conductor is larger in diameter to compensate for the lower dielectric constant of the foam and to maintain the 75 ohm impedance. As a benefit, the larger core lowers the resistance at low frequency--power and switching--which is where it could "burn out."
(Aside: the lower dielectric constant allows faster propagation, say .8 vs .6 speed of light (c), IIRC. Ideal coax would have only vacuum, air, or nitrogen dielectric with near 1.0 c and little dissipation loss. Minimal foam support is expensive and very inflexible, say $5 per foot and 2' radius of turn, if corrugated.)
RG-6 is a good, inexpensive compromise. RG-11 would be better, larger for DC but still would have solid poly and its dissipation and a tinned stranded core--twice the diameter and say 4 times the cost.
-Ken
Click to expand...

Thanks for the great info!
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meStevo
meStevo
Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Sports Section

NFL 2026-2027 Season

Schedule drops tomorrow. Mandatory mini camps in June. Hall of Fame game August 6th.
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meStevo
meStevo
Browns lead the AFC North 🤣

Seth Meyers What GIF by Late Night with Seth Meyers
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Foxbat
Foxbat
I guess even the patience of us laid-back Hoosiers has its limits:
www.colts.com

Colts relieve general manager Chris Ballard of his duties

Colts Owner & CEO Carlie Irsay-Gordon released a statement Monday announcing the news.
www.colts.com www.colts.com
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rvvaquero
rvvaquero
Foxbat said:
I guess even the patience of us laid-back Hoosiers has its limits:
www.colts.com

Colts relieve general manager Chris Ballard of his duties

Colts Owner & CEO Carlie Irsay-Gordon released a statement Monday announcing the news.
www.colts.com www.colts.com
Click to expand...
Be nice to see a Cowboy headline like that.
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Mike0616
Foxbat said:
I guess even the patience of us laid-back Hoosiers has its limits:
www.colts.com

Colts relieve general manager Chris Ballard of his duties

Colts Owner & CEO Carlie Irsay-Gordon released a statement Monday announcing the news.
www.colts.com www.colts.com
Click to expand...

Can we expect to see a new coach if we say "pretty please?"
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dfergie
dfergie
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!
Last reply · posted in TV Shows

Stargate SG-1 Discussion

Stargate SG-1 cancelled, Atlantis renewed
clear.gif

Monday - August 21, 2006 | by Darren Sumner
clear.gif

The future of Stargate is in question today, as SCI FI Channel has cancelled the long-running Stargate SG-1, Multichannel News reported today and a GateWorld source has confirmed. The news regrettably follows the airing of the show's milestone two-hundredth episode on Friday.

Stargate Atlantis, meanwhile, has been renewed for a fourth season, with the network hoping to see that the spin-off series can stand alone, according to a source.
Source Gateworld
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reubenray
I have gotten back into watching SG-1 and I have recorded most of the episodes to binge watch. What episodes are about the Antarctic or was this a movie? Also where could I watch the SG-1 movies?
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osu1991
osu1991
pluto.tv

Watch Stargate SG-1 for Free Online | Pluto TV

Stargate SG-1 picks up where the blockbuster film left off as the SG-1 team sets out to explore the mysteries of the Stargate and the worlds beyond it in the pulse-pounding series which became a worldwide phenomenon and a science fiction classic. Stream Stargate SG-1 for free on Pluto TV.
pluto.tv pluto.tv
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long_time_Dish
long_time_Dish
reubenray said:
I have gotten back into watching SG-1 and I have recorded most of the episodes to binge watch. What episodes are about the Antarctic or was this a movie? Also where could I watch the SG-1 movies?
Click to expand...
Well, there are a couple involving the Antarctic. "Solitudes", S1 E17 (one of my favorites), Then, "Lost City', S7 E21 and E22. Then, in the SGA pilot, "Rising", S1 E1 and E2, it starts out in the Antarctic for about the first 20 minutes or so.
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reubenray
long_time_Dish said:
Well, there are a couple involving the Antarctic. "Solitudes", S1 E17 (one of my favorites), Then, "Lost City', S7 E21 and E22. Then, in the SGA pilot, "Rising", S1 E1 and E2, it starts out in the Antarctic for about the first 20 minutes or so.
Click to expand...
Which one has O'Neil being Ancients? I am at the end of Season 8 now.
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long_time_Dish
long_time_Dish
reubenray said:
Which one has O'Neil being Ancients? I am at the end of Season 8 now.
Click to expand...
If I understand your question, O'Neill had the Ancient's knowledge in the "Lost City" two-part episode. That was when Anubis attacked Earth and there was a big battle over Antarctica.
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Scott Greczkowski
Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
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dishstaller
dishstaller
Blinded By The Light - Manfred Mann's Earth Band
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Bobby
Bobby
I Saw The Light - Todd Rundgren
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long_time_Dish
long_time_Dish
Little Bit Of Light - Strange Weather
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EatMyVolts
EatMyVolts
A Little Bit of Soap -- The Jarmels
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long_time_Dish
long_time_Dish
Give A Little Bit - Supertramp
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TWiT Tech Podcast Network
· posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Defender on Linux: Microsoft’s Big Security Move #shorts

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!


View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/wVdnjWsw2Uk


Direct YouTube Link - Defender on Linux: Microsoft's Big Security Move #shorts
TWIT's Website
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Ramy
Ramy
Supporting Founder
Last reply · posted in The Sports Section

2026-27 NCAA College Football

Really excited for this season with Kentucky having a new coach and some really exciting recruits. Probably won't last long, but here's hoping this season is great.
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Foxbat
Foxbat
Best fan sign I saw during the ND-BYU game: "Bear ate your Lucky Charms!" (Bear being the Cougars' QB). I was going to suggest, "Have you or your team been involved in a Carr crash?"
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osu1991
M
Mike0616
osu1991 said:

View: https://youtu.be/mUq0cZaflyc?si=odZ2TTCweQXCWNBR
Click to expand...


They get cruel sometimes, very very cruel.😈. Hated to see my dawgs go down but I still say being ranked #1 is a hex on you!
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Jimbo
Jimbo
Mike0616 said:
They get cruel sometimes, very very cruel.😈. Hated to see my dawgs go down but I still say being ranked #1 is a hex on you!
Click to expand...
Yup, I agree, I'd rather be 2 or 3 till the last few weeks.
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Peter Parker
Peter Parker
Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

DISH Hopper 3 Software Version 713 Is Out

No idea what improvements might be involved.
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bookworm370
bookworm370
Has anyone noticed an FF stutter with 713? I used to be able to hit FF a few times and skip smoothly. After 713 (maybe 712), when I skip forward, there is a definite stutter for as many times as I have pressed FF.

Can anyone check on this and report back? Recorded programs and then press skip forward a few times to see if it's smooth? Normally, it just jumps to the right place after the skips.
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N
naptime
I'm getting fabulous picture on Ch. 148 4k, but zero audio with H713. This is with a recorded show (Notre Dame game). Anyone else have this? Audio is fine on every other channel.
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reubenray
bookworm370 said:
Has anyone noticed an FF stutter with 713? I used to be able to hit FF a few times and skip smoothly. After 713 (maybe 712), when I skip forward, there is a definite stutter for as many times as I have pressed FF.

Can anyone check on this and report back? Recorded programs and then press skip forward a few times to see if it's smooth? Normally, it just jumps to the right place after the skips.
Click to expand...
My wife mentioned that her remote is acting strange this morning. She hit FF and it went to 15x FF.
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dishstaller
dishstaller
reubenray said:
My wife mentioned that her remote is acting strange this morning.
Click to expand...
Had a customer call recently saying their remote was really acting up, some buttons no longer functioned. Told them to reboot the Hopper....problem fixed.
Wife bought me a t-shirt that has "have you tried turning it off and on again?"

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Foxbat
Foxbat
dishstaller said:
Wife bought me a t-shirt that has "have you tried turning it off and on again?"
Click to expand...
Here's the one I need:
1792365258110.webp
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dishstaller
dishstaller
Foxbat said:
Here's the one I need:
Click to expand...
Just ordered one....that's great.
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jsmit86
jsmit86
naptime said:
I'm getting fabulous picture on Ch. 148 4k, but zero audio with H713. This is with a recorded show (Notre Dame game). Anyone else have this? Audio is fine on every other channel.
Click to expand...
It's a known issue.
For a temporary fix, go into the menu, Audio, and turn Dolby Audio "OFF". You will have PCM stereo audio.

I was able to give the tech ops team some data logs so they could diagnose the problem, and they rolled me back to H708 temporarily. It fixed that issue.

They let me know that they understand what caused the issue, and it will be fixed within a few weeks in a new update.
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long_time_Dish
long_time_Dish
jsmit86 said:
They let me know that they understand what caused the issue, and it will be fixed within a few weeks in a new update.
Click to expand...
Oh, you mean "soon"? :biggrin
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Almighty1
Almighty1
jsmit86 said:
It's a known issue.
For a temporary fix, go into the menu, Audio, and turn Dolby Audio "OFF". You will have PCM stereo audio.

I was able to give the tech ops team some data logs so they could diagnose the problem, and they rolled me back to H708 temporarily. It fixed that issue.

They let me know that they understand what caused the issue, and it will be fixed within a few weeks in a new update.
Click to expand...
I guess they will be busy when lots of people start asking for rollbacks to H708 now that you mention that downgrades of software does exist because it will likely fix the OTA Single Tuner and the IR Remote problems in H710-H713.
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navychop
navychop
Almighty1 said:
it will likely fix the OTA Single Tuner
Click to expand...

:popcorn
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TWiT Tech Podcast Network
· posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

RTX Spark: NVIDIA's AI PC Powerhouse Details! #shorts

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!


View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/PSGt6dUXdnI


Direct YouTube Link - RTX Spark: NVIDIA's AI PC Powerhouse Details! #shorts
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed
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SuperDish_Fan23
SuperDish_Fan23
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Its crazy how the ViP922 is so rare for no reason.

Why are ViP922s So rare? like its crazy how ebay has none, i checked everywhere, also, i got a ViP222k now, which is actually activated!
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HipKat
HipKat
I think they were more of a transitional receiver bridging the VIPs to the Hopper. They were a PITA to install and were buggy. Personally, I thought at the time that they were the best receiver out there. The versatility of the VIP's with the new Hopper GUI and, by far, the coolest-looking front plate and lighting.
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AZ.
AZ.
Well if it is because of reliability that wouldnt shock me.I went through 5 or 6 of them in little over 2 years. I loved the Sling when it worked! Saved lots of money having it in the day. That was probably 15 or 16 years ago?
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T
telstar_1
HipKat said:
I think they were more of a transitional receiver bridging the VIPs to the Hopper. They were a PITA to install and were buggy. Personally, I thought at the time that they were the best receiver out there. The versatility of the VIP's with the new Hopper GUI and, by far, the coolest-looking front plate and lighting.
Click to expand...
I don't recall that they came out just before hopper, but rather that they came out even before 722. Or could be thinking of 921.

As to the title pf the post, "rare" does not necessarily mean valuable or desirable.
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Nominal
Nominal
telstar_1 said:
I don't recall that they came out just before hopper, but rather that they came out even before 722. Or could be thinking of 921.

As to the title pf the post, "rare" does not necessarily mean valuable or desirable.
Click to expand...
You are thinking of the 921. The 922 was the first DVR with Sling functionality built in (that was eventually disabled along with the Sling Adapter for the 722s and the 1st Hopper because they relied on now-defunct Adobe Flash technology). With the bugginess described by others and the removal of its marquee feature (Sling) the 922 faded into obscurity once the Hopper 2 with built in Sling was released and they finally made the concept into a fully functional product.
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dishdude
dishdude
I had one, the front panel lighting was cool, the menus were fresh and a lot more modern looking than the ViPs. However, it was very buggy and the Sling functionality just didn't work well - I think it was due to internet speeds at the time. I think I had to pay $40 for the Sling app on my phone iirc.
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TWiT Tech Podcast Network
· posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

"You Can See Everything" Is 1 of the Century’s Best #shorts

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!


View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/A_V4A_ne8wE


Direct YouTube Link - "You Can See Everything" Is 1 of the Century's Best #shorts
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed
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dfergie
dfergie
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!
Last reply · posted in What's Cooking?

What's For Lunch?

We have a Breakfast and Dinner thread so... :)
Continuing from the Breakfast thread, found Cornbread mix so ...
Yellow Cornbread Mix
2 Hatch Green Chiles -diced
1 Egg
2/3 cup of milk
add to greased pan
Bake for 400f 20-25 minutes(From instructions)
now to put together and try... this to go with pinto beans...
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TRG
TRG
Two Chicago style hot dogs and a Fanta orange soda.
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Mr Tony
Little mini pepperoni pizza, green beans, apples and chocolate milk.
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dfergie
dfergie
TRG said:
Fanta orange soda.
Click to expand...
Sitting in fridge cooling off, bought 1 along with 2 Mexican Cokes at La Tienda... (I keep a few cokes stashed as well as in fridge and camper fridge)
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Mr Tony
Garlic cheese bread
Green beans
Apples
Chocolate Milk
Some weird noodles. ;)
(They have salad and a couple other fruits if wanted)
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TRG
TRG
Club sandwich and corn chowder. Iced tea.
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dfergie
dfergie
Chili dog bowl, water… (homemade chili)
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