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That last paragraph about Bonds and Canseco is proof of truth being stranger than fiction. I hadn't thought about it, but I'll bet Canseco's book sells a few more copies this week. As for Clemens, he seems to be taking quite a hit on this. As much as Bonds? Hard to make a qualitive judgement, but in my book this one hurt more. It's sad that the best hitter and pitcher of this era are both fakes. Nice find there ,Salsa.

Paul Wozniak said:

That last paragraph about Bonds and Canseco is proof of truth being stranger than fiction. I hadn't thought about it, but I'll bet Canseco's book sells a few more copies this week. As for Clemens, he seems to be taking quite a hit on this. As much as Bonds? Hard to make a qualitive judgement, but in my book this one hurt more. It's sad that the best hitter and pitcher of this era are both fakes. Nice find there ,Salsa.

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When the choice in this cruel and lucrative an ecosystem is between being honorable or losing to the guy who isn't, that isn't much of a choice at all. Especially not when a few more miles per hour on your fastball is the difference between the minor leagues and setting yourself up for life with one contract.

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THAT section right there is THE most telling of ALL. THAT is why you had so many marginal players on this list. The ANNUAL difference between the BEST PAID minor league and the LOWEST PAID major leaguer is almost $250,000(in average, best paid minor league is about $50,000 and a major league minimum is around $350,000 to $400,000)!!! PLUS pension! I have mentioned before that I am assistance varsity coach at a very prominant cathlolic school whose teams every year are top 10 in the state and top 25 nation wide...it was NOT easy trying to explain this one today!

But in the end...can you REALLY and truly blame a minor leaguer??!! I sure as hell can't.

The example this sends to our children, IS the biggest reason this needs to cleaned up now. What did you tell your kids?

Paul Wozniak said:

The example this sends to our children, IS the biggest reason this needs to cleaned up now. What did you tell your kids?

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The truth. They asked me what I THOUGHT....I told them that I could not blame a minor league for doing what they did. I told them that they ALL worked hard to GET to the big leagues, but they(as in some of those marginal players) let their competative juices get the best of them and used steroids. They ALL know that 'roids does not actually BUILD muscle mass, just helps the body recoup faster so you can workout more.....they are NOT dumb.

I can ... It's no different than telling your kids that it's ok to steal. Are you saying that you can't blame a minor leaguer for doing drugs? My goodness Salsa, I hope this isn't the life's lesson you're teaching your athletes. If you can't have honor in your life, it's a life not worth living.

salsadancer7 said:

But in the end...can you REALLY and truly blame a minor leaguer??!! I sure as hell can't.

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I just read what you said Salsa and I have to say I'm pretty shocked at the cavalier attitude you used to express your thoughts to your players. they "let their competitive juices get the best of them"? What a load of crap! Sorry Salsa but if I was the admin at your school, you'd be fired. That's just like saying that a rapist let his hormones get the best of him so he raped the girl. Again I'm sorry Salsa, but you seriously need to rethink this one. Your tacit agreement with steroids use by minor leaguers is completely counterproductive to school athletics.

salsadancer7 said:

The truth. They asked me what I THOUGHT....I told them that I could not blame a minor league for doing what they did. I told them that they ALL worked hard to GET to the big leagues, but they(as in some of those marginal players) let their competative juices get the best of them and used steroids. They ALL know that 'roids does not actually BUILD muscle mass, just helps the body recoup faster so you can workout more.....they are NOT dumb.

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sidekick said:

I can ... It's no different than telling your kids that it's ok to steal. Are you saying that you can't blame a minor leaguer for doing drugs? My goodness Salsa, I hope this isn't the life's lesson you're teaching your athletes. If you can't have honor in your life, it's a life not worth living.

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You really need to understand how a professional athlete thinks and you don't. I told my kids that these minor leaguers went to far, they went the way of the short cut...."their competative juices got the best of them". I, as a former professional athlete CANNOT blame the minor leaguers/fringe major leaguers for taking steroids back then because there was no rule in baseball that said you could not take them. Most of them were taking SOMETHING to help them recoup from injuries. You ask ANY OF THEM if they can make the major leagues CLEANLY, they would all give a RESOUNDING YES. Ask them if they want to be a minor leaguer the rest of their lives.....you will get a resounding NO. My kids ask me the for the truth...and I told them. They ALSO know that it is illegal to use them and that are their age, there ARE side effects that carry consequences...again, they are not dumb and they KNOW they are not getting a "go do steroids because I approve of it" speech. I give them ALOT more credit for comprehending what my answer was than you do.

sidekick said:

What a load of crap! Sorry Salsa but if I was the admin at your school, you'd be fired. That's just like saying that a rapist let his hormones get the best of him so he raped the girl. Again I'm sorry Salsa, but you seriously need to rethink this one. Your tacit agreement with steroids use by minor leaguers is completely counterproductive to school athletics.

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And that is YOUR opinion. I spoke to BOTH the AD and the principles because I have knew there might be some miss understanding or backlash of what I said. I told them EXACTLY what I told my kids. They were not happy with the wording, but they knew I told the THE TRUTH. I didn't sugarcoat nor lie....just the truth.

Tell me, seeing that you brought up the rapist analogy, what do YOU think triggers a rapist? Do you think it is triggered by a song? A commercial for McDonald's? Or maybe an and ad in a magazine about Directv? It is
their urges/hormones/desires.

No need for apologies, I give my kids ALOT more credit then you give them, they knew where I was coming from. They knew I was not agreeing with steroids as much as I can see WHY they would do it.

I neither gave nor withheld credit from your kids. I was disagreeing with your attitude. By not speaking out strongly against the use of steroids you're in essence enabling them and giving them an excuse to experiment. So what you're saying (and this is so bizarre to me) is that we can't fault the kids for following their "urges, hormones, desires")? I'm simply at a loss for words here. Where is the leadership and guidance that adults are supposed to provide? I expected more ....

salsadancer7 said:

And that is YOUR opinion. I spoke to BOTH the AD and the principles because I have knew there might be some miss understanding or backlash of what I said. I told them EXACTLY what I told my kids. They were not happy with the wording, but they knew I told the THE TRUTH. I didn't sugarcoat nor lie....just the truth.

Tell me, seeing that you brought up the rapist analogy, what do YOU think triggers a rapist? Do you think it is triggered by a song? A commercial for McDonald's? Or maybe an and ad in a magazine about Directv? It is
their urges/hormones/desires.

No need for apologies, I give my kids ALOT more credit then you give them, they knew where I was coming from. They knew I was not agreeing with steroids as much as I can see WHY they would do it.

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sidekick said:

I neither gave nor withheld credit from your kids. I was disagreeing with your attitude. By not speaking out strongly against the use of steroids you're in essence enabling them and giving them an excuse to experiment. So what you're saying (and this is so bizarre to me) is that we can't fault the kids for following their "urges, hormones, desires")? I'm simply at a loss for words here. Where is the leadership and guidance that adults are supposed to provide? I expected more ....

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leadership from Salsa? :haha :haha

sidekick said:

I neither gave nor withheld credit from your kids. I was disagreeing with your attitude. By not speaking out strongly against the use of steroids you're in essence enabling them and giving them an excuse to experiment. So what you're saying (and this is so bizarre to me) is that we can't fault the kids for following their "urges, hormones, desires")? I'm simply at a loss for words here. Where is the leadership and guidance that adults are supposed to provide? I expected more ....

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I provide plenty of leadership and guidance by telling them the truth....and not sugarcoat things and treat them with respect, not baby them with cute little slogans and wishful thinking. We have 60 kids a year tryout every year for VERY few spots, and those that make it...I tell them the truth. NOT the Bullsh!t their parents feed them or their buddies feed them. Out of every 100 ALL-State or ALL County ballplayer that goes through a VERY talented state like Florida, 5-10 make it to the major leagues...THAT'S it. When they leave our program, there are 2 ways of making it...the hard way of working hard and IF a lucky break happens, you make it. The other way is the easier more costly route and that is using performance enhancers. You will not use it in my program, but once you leave....if your considered "man enough to shoot a gun for your country" then you are man enough to make a decision which path to take....plain and simple....black or white....

vurbano said:

leadership from Salsa? :haha :haha

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LOL...you know, you say tons of things about me in here and I do let all of it slide because you are as insignificant as a dried snot on and old kleenex. But, you don't know me nor never will because I don't let in stains like you, your a negative influence that gets no acknowledgement. But I will never put you on ignore because when even I need an idiotic statement to make me laugh, I can ALWAYS count on you.....:up Keep up the good work!

salsadancer7 said:

But, you don't know me nor never will because I don't let in stains like you, your a negative influence that gets no acknowledgement.

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Your posts prove otherwise

vurbano said:

Your posts prove otherwise

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LMAO!!! :haha:haha:haha

salsadancer7 said:

You really need to understand how a professional athlete thinks and you don't. I told my kids that these minor leaguers went to far, they went the way of the short cut...."their competative juices got the best of them". I, as a former professional athlete CANNOT blame the minor leaguers/fringe major leaguers for taking steroids back then because there was no rule in baseball that said you could not take them. Most of them were taking SOMETHING to help them recoup from injuries. You ask ANY OF THEM if they can make the major leagues CLEANLY, they would all give a RESOUNDING YES. Ask them if they want to be a minor leaguer the rest of their lives.....you will get a resounding NO. My kids ask me the for the truth...and I told them. They ALSO know that it is illegal to use them and that are their age, there ARE side effects that carry consequences...again, they are not dumb and they KNOW they are not getting a "go do steroids because I approve of it" speech. I give them ALOT more credit for comprehending what my answer was than you do.

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Back when? Fay Vincent added steroids to the list of banned supplements in 1991. They have been ILLEGAL in this country for longer than that. MBL may have neglected to test for steroids, but since 1991 they have been banned. If I were you I would go back to your players and explain that steroids are inexcusable in athletics. These are kids, and you need to be clear and firm. (I'm sure you were, but it's a lesson worth repeating to them.)

But you "are" sugar coating it when you say that you understand why they'd use steroids and other enhancers. No means "no", not: "No, but I understand why you did it so I can't find fault with what you did. Sorry Salsa, but you missed the opportunity to provide a life's lesson for those players by not affirmatively denouncing steroid use.

salsadancer7 said:

I provide plenty of leadership and guidance by telling them the truth....and not sugarcoat things and treat them with respect, not baby them with cute little slogans and wishful thinking. We have 60 kids a year tryout every year for VERY few spots, tand those that make it...I tell them the truth. NOT the Bullsh!t their parents feed them or their buddies feed them. Out of every 100 ALL-State or ALL County ballplayer that goes through a VERY talented state like Florida, 5-10 make it to the major leagues...THAT'S it. When they leave our program, there are 2 ways of making it...the hard way of working hard and IF a lucky break happens, you make it. The other way is the easier more costly route and that is using performance enhancers. You will not use it in my program, but once you leave....if your considered "man enough to shoot a gun for your country" then you are man enough to make a decision which path to take....plain and simple....black or white....

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sidekick said:

But you "are" sugar coating it when you say that you understand why they'd use steroids and other enhancers. No means "no", not: "No, but I understand why you did it so I can't find fault with what you did. Sorry Salsa, but you missed the opportunity to provide a life's lesson for those players by not affirmatively denouncing steroid use.

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Again, you are going under the assumption that you know my guys...and you don't. Some of these kids, I have had them in our baseball summer camps since they were 12-14 years old AND most started on our JV program. They know EXACTLY what I meant and they have NEVER, EVER has a issue with asking me ANYTHING...believe me, they have NEVER had a issue asking me "why". AND HOW is telling the truth sugarcoasting??!! I told them that I can see guys wanting to take the short cut way to the majors. I have not encouraged anyone. Once they have left our program they are on their own when it comes to making decisions about their futures.