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jcrandall

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!

Last reply Nov 28, 2008 · posted in DIRECTV General Forum

If you have a Grandfathered Package....Please Read

We've received an update from DirecTV regarding grandfathered packages:

With the design of the new website they made the decision to no longer allow custmers to maintain grandfathered packages and perform any programming/service changes.

Essentailly, if you add/remove a service or premium, you will have to change to a current package.

Before the change, you could add HBO or another service and maintain your existing grandfathered package. Now adding a service will require the customer to select a new base package.

This was done to improve customer service (CSRs often aren't well educated on the grandfathered packages) and reduce the time/cost of maintaining these packages.

UPDATE:

Changes made via phone with CSRs will allow you to keep your package. D* has confirmed this for the time being:

Just to confirm what your users have experienced, grandfathered customers can continue to make adjustments over the phone for now.
If that were to change, there will be early communications of that shift.

38 Replies · 9885 views

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NewHampshireNFL

Nov 12, 2008

Has anyone added SuperFan to a grandfathered SundayTicket package?

I've had SundayTicket without a basic package for many years- This year I called before the season to add Superfan.

The CSR added a basic monthly package, added SuperFan, then removed the monthly package.

Does anyone know anyone that D* has done this for?

D* is now saying they will not let me use SuperFan anymore unless a pay a basic monthly fee. And the still want to charge the full fee for SuperFan

Does that sound right?

Jimbo

Nov 12, 2008

NewHampshireNFL said:
I've had SundayTicket without a basic package for many years- This year I called before the season to add Superfan.

The CSR added a basic monthly package, added SuperFan, then removed the monthly package.

Does anyone know anyone that D* has done this for?

D* is now saying they will not let me use SuperFan anymore unless a pay a basic monthly fee. And the still want to charge the full fee for SuperFan

Does that sound right?

iwc5893 said:
D* has required a base package for Sunday Ticket for a couple of years now. I'm actually surprised that the CSR removed the base package afterwards.

I think it's been that way for about 7-10 years now, you have to have a basic package to have ST and SF

Jimbo

NewHampshireNFL

Nov 27, 2008

Jimbo said:
I think it's been that way for about 7-10 years now, you have to have a basic package to have ST and SF

Jimbo

Update: I found the DIRECTV CEO email address squirreled away on another satellite forum. I e-mail "him" (the "office of the president"). It has its own large customer staff and they decided to honor the agreement of ST and SF without paying basic monthly. They also indicated that the agreement for ST does not identify a requirement for a basic monthly fee.

They did say it is DIRECTV general policy that they are not accepting requests for any changes without adding basic monthly. But their own records made it clear what their first agent agreed to do for me: They really did not have much choice and they capitulated.

chase.carey@directv.com
"Office of the President"
DIRECTV
1-800-445-2180

I would recommend anyone that has not gotten satisfaction from first level escalation on the standard DIRECTV customer service number, then immediately take your issues directly to the office of the president.

Jimbo

Nov 27, 2008

NewHampshireNFL said:
Update: I found the DIRECTV CEO email address squirreled away on another satellite forum. I e-mail "him" (the "office of the president"). It has its own large customer staff and they decided to honor the agreement of ST and SF without paying basic monthly. They also indicated that the agreement for ST does not identify a requirement for a basic monthly fee.

They did say it is DIRECTV general policy that they are not accepting requests for any changes without adding basic monthly. But their own records made it clear what their first agent agreed to do for me: They really did not have much choice and they capitulated.

chase.carey@directv.com
"Office of the President"
DIRECTV
1-800-445-2180

I would recommend anyone that has not gotten satisfaction from first level escalation on the standard DIRECTV customer service number, then immediately take your issues directly to the office of the president.

I think this it the except , not the rule.
I'm pretty sure that if I called in tomorrow (or emailed) and said I would like to cancel my monthly sub and just keep the ST and SF, they would laugh at me and politely decline my attempt.

Jimbo

NewHampshireNFL

Nov 27, 2008

Jimbo said:
I think this it the except , not the rule.
I'm pretty sure that if I called in tomorrow (or emailed) and said I would like to cancel my monthly sub and just keep the ST and SF, they would laugh at me and politely decline my attempt.

Jimbo

Of course you can't get them to agree AFTER the fact.
You already had agreed to pay a basic monthly- I never did and their records of my first call confirmed it.

It is a basic business rule, if a salesman offers you a deal and you accept it, then the establishment is responsible for honoring it even if that is not consistent with their general policy. Otherwise, the establishment can typically be sued for a breach of contract.

Can you imagine buying a new car for a price and as part of the deal you get the salesman to agree to throw in a set of new tires and then have the manager come in after the fact to say it is not business policy to give customers new tires? What would you do when the car dealer sends you a bill for the car that adds in an additional price for the tires? That is the equivalent of what DIRECTV did to me.

iwc5893

Nov 27, 2008

NewHampshireNFL said:
Of course you can't get them to agree AFTER the fact.
You already had agreed to pay a basic monthly- I never did and their records of my first call confirmed it.

It is a basic business rule, if a salesman offers you a deal and you accept it, then the establishment is responsible for honoring it even if that is not consistent with their general policy. Otherwise, the establishment can typically be sued for a breach of contract.

Can you imagine buying a new car for a price and as part of the deal you get the salesman to agree to throw in a set of new tires and then have the manager come in after the fact to say it is not business policy to give customers new tires? What would you do when the car dealer sends you a bill for the car that adds in an additional price for the tires? That is the equivalent of what DIRECTV did to me.

Except that the contract and terms of service (which apply whether you are under contract or not) clearly state that DirecTV has the right to change the requirements, packages, and programming when ever they feel like.

DIRECTV - Customer Agreement
So if you kept their service after that agreement went into effect on April 24, 2007, you did agree to subscribe to a basic monthly package. DirecTV, in your case, just chose not to force the issue - and that is entirely up to them.

Coaster fiend

Nov 28, 2008

This is for all changes

When my "Friend" signed up and used my account number for the discount, D changed my programming and added the DVR charge which had been grandfathered into my Premier package. A very nice CSR fixed it this morning and removed the charge putting me back where I was before.
Nickels and dimes, nickels, and dimes.....

NewHampshireNFL

Nov 28, 2008

iwc5893 said:
Except that the contract and terms of service (which apply whether you are under contract or not) clearly state that DirecTV has the right to change the requirements, packages, and programming when ever they feel like.

DIRECTV - Customer Agreement
So if you kept their service after that agreement went into effect on April 24, 2007, you did agree to subscribe to a basic monthly package. DirecTV, in your case, just chose not to force the issue - and that is entirely up to them.

A reasonable consumer does not believe everything an overbearing company tells them. DIRECTV certainly is within its rights to change their offers month to month. If they agree to provide a multi-month service for a specific price, then in many states, they are not legally able to add additional monthly service charges in order to receive that service.

Maybe your state has no consumer protections and DIRECTV is allowed to take your first born

or two grand in jacked up monthly service charges for $300 worth of equipment you "bought" at BestBuy.

DIRECTV has lost class-action suits on some of their practices.

iwc5893

Nov 28, 2008

NewHampshireNFL said:
A reasonable consumer does not believe everything an overbearing company tells them. DIRECTV certainly is within its rights to change their offers month to month. If they agree to provide a multi-month service for a specific price, then in many states, they are not legally able to add additional monthly service charges in order to receive that service.

Maybe your state has no consumer protections and DIRECTV is allowed to take your first born or two grand in jacked up monthly service charges for $300 worth of equipment you "bought" at BestBuy.

DIRECTV has lost class-action suits on some of their practices.

Like I said, DirecTV in your case just decided not to force the issue and give you what you wanted. That may change next year, and what will you do then?

Consumer protection laws don't prevent DirecTV from making any changes they want. Generally, they prevent the changes from happening without notice.

NewHampshireNFL

Nov 28, 2008

iwc5893 said:
Like I said, DirecTV in your case just decided not to force the issue and give you what you wanted. That may change next year, and what will you do then?

Consumer protection laws don't prevent DirecTV from making any changes they want. Generally, they prevent the changes from happening without notice.

DIRECTV and I have no deal yet for next year. They are under no obligation to make me the same offer next year that they offered to me this year. But once we make a deal for ST/SF and agree on a price, I will hold them to it: Every good consumer should.

iwc5893

Nov 28, 2008

NewHampshireNFL said:
DIRECTV and I have no deal yet for next year. They are under no obligation to make me the same offer next year that they offered to me this year. But once we make a deal for ST/SF and agree on a price, I will hold them to it: Every good consumer should.

Agreed...

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

43 minutes ago · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Defender on Linux: Microsoft’s Big Security Move #shorts

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/wVdnjWsw2Uk

Direct YouTube Link - Defender on Linux: Microsoft's Big Security Move #shorts
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

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Ramy

Supporting Founder

Last reply Today at 6:22 PM · posted in The Sports Section

2026-27 NCAA College Football

Really excited for this season with Kentucky having a new coach and some really exciting recruits. Probably won't last long, but here's hoping this season is great.

152 Replies · 1904 views

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Foxbat

Yesterday at 6:34 PM

Best fan sign I saw during the ND-BYU game: "Bear ate your Lucky Charms!" (Bear being the Cougars' QB). I was going to suggest, "Have you or your team been involved in a Carr crash?"

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osu1991

Today at 10:03 AM

View: https://youtu.be/mUq0cZaflyc?si=odZ2TTCweQXCWNBR

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Mike0616

Today at 11:08 AM

osu1991 said:
View: https://youtu.be/mUq0cZaflyc?si=odZ2TTCweQXCWNBR

They get cruel sometimes, very very cruel.

. Hated to see my dawgs go down but I still say being ranked #1 is a hex on you!

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Jimbo

Today at 2:11 PM

Mike0616 said:
They get cruel sometimes, very very cruel.. Hated to see my dawgs go down but I still say being ranked #1 is a hex on you!

Yup, I agree, I'd rather be 2 or 3 till the last few weeks.

osu1991

Today at 6:22 PM

View: https://youtu.be/F6KonG-9Gz0?is=NqOTlbotkS--p4aj

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meStevo

Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 6:19 PM · posted in The Sports Section

NFL 2026-2027 Season

Schedule drops tomorrow. Mandatory mini camps in June. Hall of Fame game August 6th.

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osu1991

Thursday at 5:17 PM

Troy Aikman seems to confirm he'll be leaving ESPN

Aikman says he looks forward to "where my next landing spot will be."

www.nbcsports.com

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Mike0616

Thursday at 5:30 PM

osu1991 said:
Troy Aikman seems to confirm he'll be leaving ESPN

Aikman says he looks forward to "where my next landing spot will be."

www.nbcsports.com

Hopefully nowhere near a microphone.

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Yespage

Friday at 11:03 AM

Mike0616 said:
Hopefully nowhere near a microphone.

After having experienced Gus Ferguson trying to call soccer games, I'm uncertain why NFL football analysts get hate. Even the "worst" of them are pretty good.

meStevo

Friday at 12:05 PM

Jalen Hurts out indefinitely as they treat and monitor a superficial blood clot in his leg.

View: https://x.com/RapSheet/status/2111074303185989663?s=20

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meStevo

Yesterday at 3:59 PM

Browns lead the AFC North

Seth Meyers What GIF by Late Night with Seth Meyers

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meStevo

Today at 11:40 AM

Hurts done for the season now

View: https://x.com/RapSheet/status/2112185275862417814

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Foxbat

Today at 6:19 PM

I guess even the patience of us laid-back Hoosiers has its limits:

Colts relieve general manager Chris Ballard of his duties

Colts Owner & CEO Carlie Irsay-Gordon released a statement Monday announcing the news.

www.colts.com

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Peter Parker

Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 5:53 PM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

DISH Hopper 3 Software Version 713 Is Out

No idea what improvements might be involved.

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bookworm370

Saturday at 3:17 PM

Has anyone noticed an FF stutter with 713? I used to be able to hit FF a few times and skip smoothly. After 713 (maybe 712), when I skip forward, there is a definite stutter for as many times as I have pressed FF.

Can anyone check on this and report back? Recorded programs and then press skip forward a few times to see if it's smooth? Normally, it just jumps to the right place after the skips.

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naptime

Yesterday at 1:05 AM

I'm getting fabulous picture on Ch. 148 4k, but zero audio with H713. This is with a recorded show (Notre Dame game). Anyone else have this? Audio is fine on every other channel.

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reubenray

Yesterday at 6:14 AM

bookworm370 said:
Has anyone noticed an FF stutter with 713? I used to be able to hit FF a few times and skip smoothly. After 713 (maybe 712), when I skip forward, there is a definite stutter for as many times as I have pressed FF.

Can anyone check on this and report back? Recorded programs and then press skip forward a few times to see if it's smooth? Normally, it just jumps to the right place after the skips.

My wife mentioned that her remote is acting strange this morning. She hit FF and it went to 15x FF.

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dishstaller

Yesterday at 1:01 PM

reubenray said:
My wife mentioned that her remote is acting strange this morning.

Had a customer call recently saying their remote was really acting up, some buttons no longer functioned. Told them to reboot the Hopper....problem fixed.
Wife bought me a t-shirt that has "have you tried turning it off and on again?"

https://www.amazon.com/Have-Tried-Turning-Again-T-Shirt/dp/B07G1ZV9W9/ref=sr_1_11?crid=3NNRAEED195WV&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.86TxUTPcw48CRYlDcLntwpMxbPDBfjiLu4wMZGX3VN6ajG_cFCuoDBJT7pS9CW2mjThKlke5Z6dlXH8bJKkQF4s892wGVU1ca_00S0BQz6F15V30_4szIdWeycvw3_zoVtsULQASM8bGcgvsKms930xApC43y_-YBVN0Q8Xsf_csSqXcmhWpresARdXHfx2VazllrXI8asduvrbnk9S3CGnzjqnVTkjzFSpSQLdQKA6Dx_7UfbQIBBJsqAmQwwtDGqM0YKVIkjV4ARgVJvJ69vLPhxV0m8pkJQd_2w_QX_A.-jSy9OqrqWdxPBsgZGia1hHMbvDAKxxhRn9kK1EBdCc&dib_tag=se&keywords=have%2Byou%2Btried%2Bturning%2Bit%2Boff%2Band%2Bon%2Bagain&nsdOptOutParam=true&qid=1792342839&sprefix=have%2Byou%2Btried%2B%2Caps%2C265&sr=8-11&customId=B0752XJYNL&customizationToken=MC_Assembly_1%23B0752XJYNL&th=1&psc=1

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Foxbat

Yesterday at 7:14 PM

dishstaller said:
Wife bought me a t-shirt that has "have you tried turning it off and on again?"

Here's the one I need:

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dishstaller

Yesterday at 10:15 PM

Foxbat said:
Here's the one I need:

View attachment 194877

Just ordered one....that's great.

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jsmit86

Today at 9:57 AM

naptime said:
I'm getting fabulous picture on Ch. 148 4k, but zero audio with H713. This is with a recorded show (Notre Dame game). Anyone else have this? Audio is fine on every other channel.

It's a known issue.
For a temporary fix, go into the menu, Audio, and turn Dolby Audio "OFF". You will have PCM stereo audio.

I was able to give the tech ops team some data logs so they could diagnose the problem, and they rolled me back to H708 temporarily. It fixed that issue.

They let me know that they understand what caused the issue, and it will be fixed within a few weeks in a new update.

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long_time_Dish

Today at 3:57 PM

jsmit86 said:
They let me know that they understand what caused the issue, and it will be fixed within a few weeks in a new update.

Oh, you mean "soon"? :biggrin

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Almighty1

Today at 4:07 PM

jsmit86 said:
It's a known issue.
For a temporary fix, go into the menu, Audio, and turn Dolby Audio "OFF". You will have PCM stereo audio.

I was able to give the tech ops team some data logs so they could diagnose the problem, and they rolled me back to H708 temporarily. It fixed that issue.

They let me know that they understand what caused the issue, and it will be fixed within a few weeks in a new update.

I guess they will be busy when lots of people start asking for rollbacks to H708 now that you mention that downgrades of software does exist because it will likely fix the OTA Single Tuner and the IR Remote problems in H710-H713.

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navychop

Today at 5:53 PM

Almighty1 said:
it will likely fix the OTA Single Tuner

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Today at 5:12 PM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

RTX Spark: NVIDIA's AI PC Powerhouse Details! #shorts

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/PSGt6dUXdnI

Direct YouTube Link - RTX Spark: NVIDIA's AI PC Powerhouse Details! #shorts
TWIT's Website
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SuperDish_Fan23

Last reply Today at 5:05 PM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Its crazy how the ViP922 is so rare for no reason.

Why are ViP922s So rare? like its crazy how ebay has none, i checked everywhere, also, i got a ViP222k now, which is actually activated!

7 Replies · 201 views

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HipKat

Today at 8:55 AM

I think they were more of a transitional receiver bridging the VIPs to the Hopper. They were a PITA to install and were buggy. Personally, I thought at the time that they were the best receiver out there. The versatility of the VIP's with the new Hopper GUI and, by far, the coolest-looking front plate and lighting.

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AZ.

Today at 9:02 AM

Well if it is because of reliability that wouldnt shock me.I went through 5 or 6 of them in little over 2 years. I loved the Sling when it worked! Saved lots of money having it in the day. That was probably 15 or 16 years ago?

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telstar_1

Today at 1:22 PM

HipKat said:
I think they were more of a transitional receiver bridging the VIPs to the Hopper. They were a PITA to install and were buggy. Personally, I thought at the time that they were the best receiver out there. The versatility of the VIP's with the new Hopper GUI and, by far, the coolest-looking front plate and lighting.

I don't recall that they came out just before hopper, but rather that they came out even before 722. Or could be thinking of 921.

As to the title pf the post, "rare" does not necessarily mean valuable or desirable.

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Nominal

Today at 4:30 PM

telstar_1 said:
I don't recall that they came out just before hopper, but rather that they came out even before 722. Or could be thinking of 921.

As to the title pf the post, "rare" does not necessarily mean valuable or desirable.

You are thinking of the 921. The 922 was the first DVR with Sling functionality built in (that was eventually disabled along with the Sling Adapter for the 722s and the 1st Hopper because they relied on now-defunct Adobe Flash technology). With the bugginess described by others and the removal of its marquee feature (Sling) the 922 faded into obscurity once the Hopper 2 with built in Sling was released and they finally made the concept into a fully functional product.

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dishdude

Today at 5:05 PM

I had one, the front panel lighting was cool, the menus were fresh and a lot more modern looking than the ViPs. However, it was very buggy and the Sling functionality just didn't work well - I think it was due to internet speeds at the time. I think I had to pay $40 for the Sling app on my phone iirc.

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Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply Today at 4:16 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne

Get it?

An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....

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ClarkGable

Today at 6:49 AM

Take It To The Limit - The Eagles

Reactions: long_time_Dish, RaiderPower, FTA4PA and 1 other person

harshness

Today at 9:30 AM

ClarkGable said:
Take It To The Limit - The Eagles

The two instances of "The" should have been highlighted.

Take Me to the River - Talking Heads

dishstaller

Today at 10:20 AM

Blinded By The Light - Manfred Mann's Earth Band

Reactions: long_time_Dish and RaiderPower

Bobby

Today at 11:52 AM

I Saw The Light - Todd Rundgren

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long_time_Dish

Today at 3:29 PM

Little Bit Of Light - Strange Weather

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EatMyVolts

Today at 4:16 PM

A Little Bit of Soap -- The Jarmels

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Today at 4:12 PM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

"You Can See Everything" Is 1 of the Century’s Best #shorts

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/A_V4A_ne8wE

Direct YouTube Link - "You Can See Everything" Is 1 of the Century's Best #shorts
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

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dfergie

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!

Last reply Today at 4:01 PM · posted in What's Cooking?

What's For Lunch?

We have a Breakfast and Dinner thread so...

Continuing from the Breakfast thread, found Cornbread mix so ...
Yellow Cornbread Mix
2 Hatch Green Chiles -diced
1 Egg
2/3 cup of milk
add to greased pan
Bake for 400f 20-25 minutes(From instructions)
now to put together and try... this to go with pinto beans...

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TRG

Oct 10, 2026

Two Chicago style hot dogs and a Fanta orange soda.

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Mr Tony

Oct 12, 2026

Little mini pepperoni pizza, green beans, apples and chocolate milk.

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dfergie

Oct 12, 2026

TRG said:
Fanta orange soda.

Sitting in fridge cooling off, bought 1 along with 2 Mexican Cokes at La Tienda... (I keep a few cokes stashed as well as in fridge and camper fridge)

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Mr Tony

Today at 2:17 PM

Garlic cheese bread
Green beans
Apples
Chocolate Milk
Some weird noodles.

(They have salad and a couple other fruits if wanted)

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TRG

Today at 3:41 PM

Club sandwich and corn chowder. Iced tea.

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dfergie

Today at 4:01 PM

Chili dog bowl, water… (homemade chili)

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dfergie

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!

Last reply Today at 3:54 PM · posted in TV Shows

Stargate SG-1 Discussion

Stargate SG-1 cancelled, Atlantis renewed

Monday - August 21, 2006 | by Darren Sumner

The future of Stargate is in question today, as SCI FI Channel has cancelled the long-running Stargate SG-1, Multichannel News reported today and a GateWorld source has confirmed. The news regrettably follows the airing of the show's milestone two-hundredth episode on Friday.

Stargate Atlantis, meanwhile, has been renewed for a fourth season, with the network hoping to see that the spin-off series can stand alone, according to a source.
Source Gateworld

2032 Replies · 184105 views

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dfergie

Sep 10, 2026

The Tokra pt 1, I know pt 2 will be next...
(came across on Pluto tv live, went to media server for "clean" version)

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reubenray

Today at 1:30 PM

I have gotten back into watching SG-1 and I have recorded most of the episodes to binge watch. What episodes are about the Antarctic or was this a movie? Also where could I watch the SG-1 movies?

osu1991

Today at 2:00 PM

Watch Stargate SG-1 for Free Online | Pluto TV

Stargate SG-1 picks up where the blockbuster film left off as the SG-1 team sets out to explore the mysteries of the Stargate and the worlds beyond it in the pulse-pounding series which became a worldwide phenomenon and a science fiction classic. Stream Stargate SG-1 for free on Pluto TV.

pluto.tv

long_time_Dish

Today at 3:47 PM

reubenray said:
I have gotten back into watching SG-1 and I have recorded most of the episodes to binge watch. What episodes are about the Antarctic or was this a movie? Also where could I watch the SG-1 movies?

Well, there are a couple involving the Antarctic. "Solitudes", S1 E17 (one of my favorites), Then, "Lost City', S7 E21 and E22. Then, in the SGA pilot, "Rising", S1 E1 and E2, it starts out in the Antarctic for about the first 20 minutes or so.

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reubenray

Today at 3:54 PM

long_time_Dish said:
Well, there are a couple involving the Antarctic. "Solitudes", S1 E17 (one of my favorites), Then, "Lost City', S7 E21 and E22. Then, in the SGA pilot, "Rising", S1 E1 and E2, it starts out in the Antarctic for about the first 20 minutes or so.

Which one has O'Neil being Ancients? I am at the end of Season 8 now.

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